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Author Topic: National Park Carry in Peril?  (Read 5341 times)

AZRedhawk44

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National Park Carry in Peril?
« on: January 21, 2009, 11:13:55 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090121/pl_nm/us_obama_regulations

Obama has stopped all pending Bush regulations that haven't been finalized.

One of those is National Park Carry.  Of course, it's just pending "review."  Just to see if it's really legal and within policy.

Let's see if Obama's administration wants to deliberately piss off the 2A crowd on this one.  He previously paid lip service to "State's Rights" and home rule, so we'll see if he follows through on this one.

Quote
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Barack Obama's new administration ordered all federal agencies and departments on Tuesday to stop any pending regulations until they can be reviewed by incoming staff, halting last-minute Bush orders in their tracks.

"This afternoon, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel signed a memorandum sent to all agencies and departments to stop all pending regulations until a legal and policy review can be conducted by the Obama administration," the White House said in a statement issued just hours after Obama took office.

The review is a tool commonly used by a new administration to delay so-called "midnight regulations" put in place by a former president between the election and Inauguration Day.

Midnight regulations have been heavily used by recent former presidents, including the Democrat Bill Clinton, Republican George H. W. Bush, and most recently, the Republican George W. Bush.

Controversial late rules by the outgoing Bush administration include allowing the carrying of concealed weapons in some national parks and prohibiting medical facilities from receiving federal money for discriminating against doctors and nurses who refuse to assist with abortions or dispense contraceptives based on religious grounds.

Federal law requires a 60-day waiting period before any major regulatory changes become law, so some presidents try to publish new major regulations to ensure they go into effect before the new president's inauguration on January 20.

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john828

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2009, 11:22:04 AM »
I thought there would have to be a Public Comment period just like the period we had before they approved CC in the parks.

I also thought that the review was intended for just the last minute EO's signed by Bush.  The National Park CC is not pending.  It would have to be reversed.  I may be wrong though.
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K Frame

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2009, 11:22:56 AM »
There was a public comment period.

It is long past.


I believe that you are correct about the timing. According to what I read a few weeks ago, reversing NPS CCW would require a whole new study and public comment period following by legal reviews. It would take as long to reverse as it took to enact.

Supposedly.
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Manedwolf

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Rahm Emanuel is wasting no time
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2009, 11:24:14 AM »
I find this memo a bit...eh. Does this say what I think it says in terms of wanting ALL new regulation by departments and agencies to be vetted by Obama's "appointees and designees"?

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/emanuel-regulatory-review.pdf

Can someone more into Governmentese clarify this?

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K Frame

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 11:28:11 AM »
Manedwolf,

I merged your new topic into this one because they both deal with review of new regulations and executive orders from Bush's last days in office.
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Manedwolf

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2009, 11:34:26 AM »
Quote from: Mike Irwin on January 21, 2009, 11:28:11 AM
Manedwolf,

I merged your new topic into this one because they both deal with review of new regulations and executive orders from Bush's last days in office.

Oh, right. :)

The link there is a scan of the actual memo, which seemed a bit like an "everything must be approved BY US" micromanaging sort. Which Emanuel is. Even his friends apparently gleefully say he's an a__hole.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 11:38:10 AM by Manedwolf »
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K Frame

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 11:36:07 AM »
NOW he figures it out...  ;/   :laugh:

Someone over at TFL is claiming that the article from Washington Post is wrong (gee, imagine that), that the 60 day waiting period for the new National Park CCW changes has expired and it went into effect on 9 January.

Therefore, it's not subject to Obama's review.
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Manedwolf

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2009, 11:41:07 AM »
Quote from: Mike Irwin on January 21, 2009, 11:36:07 AM
NOW he figures it out...  ;/   :laugh:

Someone over at TFL is claiming that the article from Washington Post is wrong (gee, imagine that), that the 60 day waiting period for the new National Park CCW changes has expired and it went into effect on 9 January.

Therefore, it's not subject to Obama's review.

Took effect on the 9th. It's right here.

http://www.fws.gov/policy/library/E8-29249.html
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41magsnub

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2009, 11:57:57 AM »
Quote from: Manedwolf on January 21, 2009, 11:41:07 AM
Took effect on the 9th. It's right here.

http://www.fws.gov/policy/library/E8-29249.html

That can't be true, no innocent park visitors have been shot yet.
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El Tejon

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2009, 12:03:52 PM »
In peril by administrative rule change?  No.

In peril by legislation?  Yes.
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ronnyreagan

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2009, 12:33:47 PM »
Quote from: Mike Irwin on January 21, 2009, 11:36:07 AM
it's not subject to Obama's review.

Yeah, that was my understanding. Clinton screwed this up and most of his were repealed (is that the right word?) by Bush before going into effect. Bush got his in on time.
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lone_gunman

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2009, 03:18:12 PM »
Obama can simply start the process to reverse the new gun policy.
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seeker_two

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2009, 05:18:08 PM »
Considering who Obama nominated to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, I'd say that CCW in parks is DOA...as is any hunting on public land....  :mad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein

In addition to what Wikipedia lists, Sunstein also opposes hunting, eating meat, and "animal enslavement"....
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 05:21:40 PM by seeker_two »
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K Frame

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2009, 08:46:48 PM »
Given that Park CCW has already passed into law, and the process to "unlaw it" will be months or even years long, how is it DOA?

The short answer is that it's not.
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El Tejon

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2009, 07:54:12 AM »
DOA?  How so?

Admin regs are not made or unmade by some clerk waking up from a nap and making a decision.  There is a procedure.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2009, 07:58:18 AM »
Quote from: El Tejon on January 21, 2009, 12:03:52 PM
In peril by administrative rule change?  No.

In peril by legislation?  Yes.

Wouldn't it be possible for the new President to order a new rule change?
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El Tejon

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2009, 08:06:44 AM »
Not without going through the procedure outlined in the CFR.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2009, 08:09:36 AM »
Quote from: El Tejon on January 22, 2009, 08:06:44 AM
Not without going through the procedure outlined in the CFR.

Yes, but, I mean, if he wants to do it, he can, it's only a matter of going through these steps, right?
If Obama tells his bureaucrats, "bring me the head of park carry", it'll only be a matter of going through the motions, am I wrong here?
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El Tejon

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2009, 08:11:12 AM »
You are correct.

Bring me the head? =D

*Clap, clap* Bring me the head of the Constitution, and something cool and refreshing. =D
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MicroBalrog

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2009, 08:15:07 AM »
Quote from: El Tejon on January 22, 2009, 08:11:12 AM


*Clap, clap* Bring me the head of the Constitution, and something cool and refreshing. =D

Mr. Scalia, is that you?
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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K Frame

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2009, 09:42:49 AM »
Quote from: MicroBalrog on January 22, 2009, 07:58:18 AM
Wouldn't it be possible for the new President to order a new rule change?

No. He cannot, by law, change this kind of regulation with an executive order.

In any event, HE can't do it, CONGRESS has to do it.

That's how this got changed in the first place -- Congressional action.
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john828

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2009, 09:54:35 AM »
Quote
You are correct.

Bring me the head?

*Clap, clap* Bring me the head of the Constitution, and something cool and refreshing.


El Tejon,

You make this guy sound like royalty.  LMFAO  That was fun.  The mental image was hilarious.
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Tim L

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2009, 02:12:31 AM »
Quote from: john828 on January 22, 2009, 09:54:35 AM


El Tejon,

You make this guy sound like royalty.

You mean he isn't?  The way people practically kneel at his feet I was starting to wonder.


Tim
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buzz_knox

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Re: National Park Carry in Peril?
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2009, 01:27:08 PM »
Quote from: El Tejon on January 22, 2009, 07:54:12 AM
DOA?  How so?

Admin regs are not made or unmade by some clerk waking up from a nap and making a decision.  There is a procedure.

When the agencies follow procedure, true.  When the agency decides that although it's said that the regulation means X for 20 years, it actually means Y and said interpretation is retroactive, things get interesting.  Look up  EPA's schizophrenic treatment of new source review regulations for an example.
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