Author Topic: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever  (Read 5013 times)

TechMan

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The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« on: April 20, 2010, 11:28:28 AM »
http://www.parentdish.com/2010/04/19/the-unschooling-movement-schools-out-forever/


The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever

by Tom Henderson (Subscribe to Tom Henderson's posts) Apr 19th 2010 3:42PM

If she is lucky -- very lucky -- Michele Darr-Babson can get from one end of a sentence to the other uninterrupted.

Mornings in her Salem, Ore., home are slightly, shall we say, chaotic.

"We're able to give our children ... Louis! Don't stand on that!" she tells ParentDish (and Louis).

What Darr-Babson is trying to say is that unschooling -- a movement where children get no education and basically teach themselves what they need to know -- gives kids more choices. Apparently, the choice for Louis to stand on whatever "that" is, is not one of them.

Darr-Babson has 10 children in her blended family. She used to unschool most of them, and it's a good idea, she says. In theory, at least. Most of her children are in traditional school these days. That's because attending school was one of the choices they were free to make. Darr-Babson's ex-partner didn't share her enthusiasm for homeschooling.

But when unschooling works, Darr-Babson tells ParentDish, it can work magnificently.

"It enables children to focus what they're interested in," she says.

A growing number of parents are unschooling their children. ABC News reports there are 56 million American children in traditional schools, with another 1.5 million being homeschooled.

Of those, according to the network, about 10 percent are unschooled.

Unschooling is not homeschooling. In homeschooling, children get the same structure, discipline and curriculum they get at school. They just get it from their parents.

Darr-Babson explains that unschooling has no rules. It is all organic.

"It really promotes how learning is accomplishing in real life -- through experience," she tells ParentDish.

Her two oldest children, ages 18 and 20, are in Egypt. "Now that's a learning experience," she says.

But does visiting the Sphinx teach a person algebra?

Children can take care of that on their own, unschooling parent Christine Yablonski of Massachusetts tells ABC News.

"If they need formal algebra understanding, they will find that information," she tells the network.

She knows her kids will do what they need to do, she adds.

"They might watch television. They might play games on the computers. The key there is you have to trust your kids to find their own interests," she tells ABC News.

It doesn't bother her, for example, that her 15-year-old daughter Kimi Biegler stays up all night.

"She's getting everything done that she wants to get done," she tells the network.

What about Kimi? Does she feel prepared for college?

"No, not really," she tells ABC News. "I haven't done the traditional look at a textbook and learn about such and such."

When such and such becomes important, she adds, she'll study it.

"If I wanted to to go college, then I would pick up a textbook and I would learn," she tells the network.

According to the Home School Legal Defense Association, there are no laws regarding homeschooling or unschooling in Idaho, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Connecticut or New Jersey.

All you have to do in those states is notify the school district that your child won't be attending classes. There is no testing or other requirements.

The rest of the states vary in the amount of notification parents must give and how much student testing is required. Colleges can set their own requirements for the admission of homeschooled and unschooled students.

"We find that we don't need a whole lot of rules," Kimi's father, Phil Biegler, tells ABC. "They will do what they need to do whether or not they enjoy it because they see the purpose in it."

Ann Pleshette Murphy, the former editor of Parents magazine and the current parenting expert on ABC's "Good Morning America," is doubtful.

"This to me is putting way too much power in the hands of the kids -- something that we know kids actually can often find very anxiety producing," she tells ABC News.

"And it's also sending a message that they're the center of the universe, which I do not think is healthy for children."



ABC News report: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/video/extreme-parenting-radical-unschooling-10413158



Okay, I don't have kids yet, but I really don't think that this is a very good idea at all.  It sounds like lazy parenting and making a new generation of people dependent upon Uncle Sugar.

 
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Jamisjockey

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2010, 12:08:04 PM »
Kids that aren't taught boundries will never develop any.  I mean any. 
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HankB

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2010, 12:16:50 PM »
Flash forward to age 18 or 20 - will an "unschooled" kid have any marketable skills useful for something other than unskilled labor?

The only purporse of "unschooling" that I can see is to provide a pool of Americans who are poised to compete with the lowest tier of illegal aliens for jobs at the bottom rung of the employment ladder . . . except they'll have more of a sense of entitlement and no real sense of responsibility.
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Fjolnirsson

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2010, 12:20:26 PM »
I've known quite a few parents who've tried this "unschooling", and adively  is correct. It is lazy parenting, taken to an extreme. An excuse to not parent, is what I see it as. I am glad the article was clear about the distinction between this and homeschooling. In contrast, we homeschool in addition to my daughter's current enrollment in the local charter school(which will likely end with this year. I don't care for the politically correct bs we've hit already). I could go along with the stated idea of unschooling, which is for the child to learn where their interests lie, but we include it as an addition to regular subjects like reading and math. The difference is, I don't let my child run wild like an animal.

In my opinion, the parents I have met who unschool are guilty of near criminal neglect. I don't believe government schooling should be compulsory, in fact, I think it does far more harm than good, at this point. However, I believe parents have a moral, ethical responsibility to give their children the tools they will need to be successful at something other than flipping burgers. But maybe I am old fashioned and unhip.
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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 12:44:04 PM »
Montessori without the tuition.  And without the really not so subtle "encouragement" to actually go find something to learn besides the next level of whatever one ascends to in/on an x-box virtual reality.

The problem with "if they need to learn algebra" at some later date is that there are certain cognitive functions that proceed from earlier-developed functions, and cannot (at least without great pain and effort) be developed in later life without the base wiring schematics in place.  As one who attempted to learn calculus by skipping merrily past algebra to play (both literally and figuratively) with plane and solid geometry instead, I still have difficulty describing anything in a formulaic manner.  Sure, I can do flow charts and such, but sucinctly describing any event as A + (B/C)=D aint happening within a single paragraph.

And that's from someone who has advanced degrees in the theory and application of language to and regarding its influence on individual, group and system behaviors.  (See what I mean? :facepalm:)

I never had the need to speak algebra as such (meaning spend significant time with anything but basic maths) but continually found the inability to readily manipulate concepts symbolically to be a handicap.

Wonder what else her kids will not know how to do when the world smacks them in the face with the sudden need to perform?

Note to HankB - you may be correct in suggesting "The only purporse of "unschooling" that I can see is to provide a pool of Americans who are poised to compete with the lowest tier of illegal aliens for jobs at the bottom rung of the employment ladder . . . except they'll have more of a sense of entitlement and no real sense of responsibility" but you left out being President of the United States as a career option that will still be open to their level of qualification.

stay safe.

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HankB

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 12:50:55 PM »
Note to HankB  . . . but you left out being President of the United States as a career option that will still be open to their level of qualification.
That's right, my bad - I forgot they can become Community Organizers.  :facepalm:

(Though, to be fair, BHO is alleged to have attended various schools from Indonesia to Harvard . . . it's just that no records of his work or accomplishments have ever been made public, nor do I recall seeing any of his school chums, lab partners, room mates, etc., interviewed about his school days. Hmmm . . .)
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41magsnub

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 12:54:39 PM »
A problem I would have with that is people tend to focus on what they like to the detriment of other subjects that are important, I know I did as a kid.  Algebra is easy to me, I had no trouble with it and when my parents made me go do homework I would focus on that unnecessarily instead of doing History homework memorizing dates or something I thought was stupid.

MicroBalrog

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 01:00:14 PM »
It's one of those experimental things that may or may not be good for some specific people (and of course should be legal), but I wouldn't think it would be a great idea to implement it widely. From what I understand, it has enough experts backing it to remain valid as an experimental technique that may work for some, but not for others, though.
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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 01:05:49 PM »
For some reason, I hesitate to experiment on my children. I guess I have no sense of adventure.

MicroBalrog

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2010, 01:15:09 PM »
Me, I am a great fan of traditional educational methods, especially in the early age. Just saying - people come in all shapes in sizes. It may work for someone else.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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BridgeRunner

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2010, 01:43:39 PM »
Everyone I know who has tried this ends up with a home in utter chaos.  The interviewee is far from unique in that respect.  Oh, the kids invariably beg to go to school.  Turns out living in chaos where mom and dad are using their kids to validate their own desire for complete freedom isn't actually what kids want or need.

mellestad

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2010, 01:45:42 PM »
Wierd hippie stuff like this can work, see things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_method

BUT

I think you need to have a very, very talented teaching staff to pull it off.  These things work because a professional is spending a huge amount of time with a kid.

At least with traditional education you have some sort of standard that you know will be met simply by following the textbook.  With stuff like this, sure, it might turn out good, but it could easily be a mess too.

Having said that, I am a fan of educational experimentation, for those with open eyes willing to take the risks.

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2010, 01:45:46 PM »
Everyone I know who has tried this ends up with a home in utter chaos.  The interviewee is far from unique in that respect.  Oh, the kids invariably beg to go to school.  Turns out living in chaos where mom and dad are using their kids to validate their own desire for complete freedom isn't actually what kids want or need.

It's a sad day when children make more mature decisions than their parents.

Of course, that has been the direction of our society for some time now.
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mellestad

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2010, 01:48:44 PM »
That's right, my bad - I forgot they can become Community Organizers.  :facepalm:

(Though, to be fair, BHO is alleged to have attended various schools from Indonesia to Harvard . . . it's just that no records of his work or accomplishments have ever been made public, nor do I recall seeing any of his school chums, lab partners, room mates, etc., interviewed about his school days. Hmmm . . .)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_career_of_Barack_Obama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_career_of_Barack_Obama#Notes

There are lots of citations and sources.

BridgeRunner

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2010, 01:52:52 PM »
I have a theory about why Montessori turns out smart kids.

Montessori is obscenely expensive.  Montessori is therefore populated by a rather elite bunch of spawn.  Montessori works against parents who push kids too hard to overachieve, by delaying certain highly regarded milestones like reading and writing. (Aside: is it just me or is a little weird how many adults will brag about how young they were when they learned to read?  I always think: You're thirty-five.  I'm so glad you were reading about the time you were toilet-trained.  Why should I care and what have you been doing for the other thirty-two years of your life?)

The philosophy of refusing to push on those milestones weeds out the pushy obnoxious parents, the ones who are gonna sabotage their kids by forcing them to grow up too fast, prompting academic and other forms of rebellion.  So Montessori is full of kids who will succeed no matter what, because of the confluence of good genes (tends to correlate with wealth), decent parents, and greater opportunities (see wealth, above).

MicroBalrog

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2010, 02:00:33 PM »
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Montessori is obscenely expensive.

Come again?

Israel has several Montessori schools opening that are part-charitable and quite affordable. I'm sure there are others around the world.
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Tallpine

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2010, 02:07:46 PM »
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Unschooling is not homeschooling. In homeschooling, children get the same structure, discipline and curriculum they get at school. They just get it from their parents.

That's not precisely true at all, at least in most cases.  Why would parents want to go to the effort of replicating a failed process ?  ;/

In our experience, homeschoolers accomplish in 2/3 hours per day what the publik skools akkomplish in 6 or 8 hours.  That leaves a lot of time for additional learning and activities.

In CO, they required the Iowa Basic Tests every few years for homeschoolers - which was all right with us as we needed to know if we were doing a good job or not.  They always tested above grade level.  Funny thing, at 4th grade IIRC one of our daughters tested out at junior level high school in science, and we had not yet even done any science classes yet  :O

When our girls finally entered public high school as freshmen, they were already so far ahead that it was ridiculous.  All the teachers told us they were doing college level work.  (until their senior year, when they got bored and tired of working their butts off for nothing, and they just sailed on through without putting in any effort).
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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2010, 02:25:38 PM »
Come again?

Israel has several Montessori schools opening that are part-charitable and quite affordable. I'm sure there are others around the world.

for some reason the doctrines of maria montessori have been warped to exclude the less fortunate children here in the USA.  her original ideas incorporated the poor, as well as the less gifted (mentally) students.
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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2010, 02:57:25 PM »
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what have you been doing for the other thirty-two years of your life?)

 :laugh:
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Ryan in Maine

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2010, 03:16:54 PM »
Meh. Home schooling/unschooling somewhat backfired for me. I had a lot of leeway to study only what I was interested in. Unfortunately, I wasn't very interested in numbers back then. I turned out being adept at everything but math. Which, in turn, threw a stick in my spokes as math became more integral to other existing interests such as science and astronomy.

Now, at almost 26 years old, I have to teach myself the numbers game. This should've been implemented in my studies back when I was 15 or 16 years old.

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2010, 07:15:07 PM »
Ryan, "Homeschooling/Unschooling" is an error.  They are not the same thing in any way other than that they take place at home.

Ryan in Maine

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2010, 01:02:58 AM »
Right. I should have clarified.

I did both. The original plan was home schooling. Circumstances eventually left me on my own. So began the unschooling. I didn't notice how much I neglected math until very late in the game. I'm hoping I can pick it back up relatively quickly without driving myself insane.

 :facepalm:

Stand_watie

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2010, 09:38:29 AM »
...When our girls finally entered public high school as freshmen, they were already so far ahead that it was ridiculous.  All the teachers told us they were doing college level work.  (until their senior year, when they got bored and tired of working their butts off for nothing, and they just sailed on through without putting in any effort).

     Probably they were far advanced in things like fixing 1958 Allis-Chalmer's too, if they were anything like the rural homeschooled kids I've known =D   A great life skill too.  (And no, that's not sarcasm).
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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2010, 10:07:56 AM »
Until I started reading the replies in this thread, I thought the article was from The Onion.

sanglant

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Re: The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2010, 10:16:13 AM »
all i can say is, knowing how i was treated in school. this can't possibly be any worse for the kids. [tinfoil]