The Unintended Consequences of Cecil the Lion

[Ben]

Hunters stopped hunting. The lions are eating all the other animals. Duh.

http://twitchy.com/2016/02/23/paging-piersmorgan-et-al-thanks-to-outrage-over-the-death-of-cecil-there-are-now-too-many-lions-in-zimbabwe/

[makattak]

The lefties won't care.

They don't actually want to think about long term consequences, they want to react on how something makes them feel. Long-term consequences? Ecological damage? You're just a blood-thirsty, money-grubbing, PATRIARCHY!!11!! GMERiaopindafpao AJP)REONaindsflaknesra [unintelligible]

[makattak]

Oh, and to illustrate my point:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/zimbabwe-looks-cull-200-lions-7423108

(The article referenced by twitchy)

"Walter Palmer, 55, vanished after he was identified as the hunter who paid around £35,000 to butcher the iconic animal in July."

"In pain, it is believed he was tracked for 40 hours before Palmer shot him dead with his gun. Cecil was then beheaded."

Emphasis mine.

Note the lefties just can't face the consequences that demonizing hunters means MORE DEAD ANIMALS. They have to continue the demonization.[1]




[1] I have a problem with the hunt as it is rather clear he did not use a weapon suitable to the task. I find that to be unethical and poor sportsmanship. Highlighting THAT issue may both decrease unnecessary suffering and encourage hunters to be more ethical. That is clearly not the goal in this article.

[agricola]

The lefties won't care.

They don't actually want to think about long term consequences, they want to react on how something makes them feel. Long-term consequences? Ecological damage? You're just a blood-thirsty, money-grubbing, PATRIARCHY!!11!! GMERiaopindafpao AJP)REONaindsflaknesra [unintelligible]

TBH if there really are an excess of 200 (of a population of 500) that was only kept down by hunting (if dentists paying tens of thousands to Legolas about the place can be described as such) and that it has taken less than a year to get that out of control, then its fairly clear that the ecological damage was done by the people farming the lions in the first place. 

[makattak]

TBH if there really are an excess of 200 (of a population of 500) that was only kept down by hunting (if dentists paying tens of thousands to Legolas about the place can be described as such) and that it has taken less than a year to get that out of control, then its fairly clear that the ecological damage was done by the people farming the lions in the first place. 

From the article, they are also under drought conditions, so it is likely an exacerbation of the situation to have suddenly removed a reliable culling method.

Not the sole cause, but a contributing factor.

Additionally, they might have to pay someone to do it, rather than making money on the hunt, which is also not an insignificant issue.

[lupinus]

But FEELZ!

[brimic]

TBH if there really are an excess of 200 (of a population of 500) that was only kept down by hunting (if dentists paying tens of thousands to Legolas about the place can be described as such) and that it has taken less than a year to get that out of control, then its fairly clear that the ecological damage was done by the people farming the lions in the first place. 

Umm no.
Without hunter currency, the herds get out of control pretty quickly, and lots of people die.
Hunter currency pays for managing herds to a point of both sustainability and the ability for humans to survive.
Remember- large swaths of Africa were more or less uninhabitable by humans until the ability to manage herds of elephants and big cats (but mainly elephants) came to be. 

[Hawkmoon]

TBH if there really are an excess of 200 (of a population of 500) that was only kept down by hunting (if dentists paying tens of thousands to Legolas about the place can be described as such) and that it has taken less than a year to get that out of control, then its fairly clear that the ecological damage was done by the people farming the lions in the first place. 

I agree. I find it incredible (in the literal sense of the word) that in the space of one year's time a lack of trophy hunters could possibly have led to the lion population having exploded to the point that the government now needs to cull 200 of the beasts.

[cordex]

In 2013 there were about 50 lions legally killed by out of country hunters. Or at least that many trophies exported.

It wouldn't surprise me if a number of lions are culled by authorities during the normal course of managing human/lion populations.

Agricola,
As to lion farming - you say that like it is a bad thing.

[charby]

Well duh, say goodbye to wild prides.

[Andiron]

dentists paying tens of thousands to Legolas about the place

Regardless of if I agree with context,  that just kicked over my giggle bucket. 

[HankB]

TBH if there really are an excess of 200 (of a population of 500) that was only kept down by hunting (if dentists paying tens of thousands to Legolas about the place can be described as such) and that it has taken less than a year to get that out of control, then its fairly clear that the ecological damage was done by the people farming the lions in the first place. 

From what I've read, big game hunting in Zimbabwe has been declining for years - ever since Mugabe's land seizures began - and game management in Zimbabwe has also suffered due to purges and such in the game department, so this situation did NOT happen overnight; it's only Cecil the Lion's demise that brought attention to the story.

(And besides, Cecil had it coming - he killed and ate Wanda the Wildebeest and made orphans of her babies.)

[RevDisk]

TBH if there really are an excess of 200 (of a population of 500) that was only kept down by hunting (if dentists paying tens of thousands to Legolas about the place can be described as such) and that it has taken less than a year to get that out of control, then its fairly clear that the ecological damage was done by the people farming the lions in the first place. 

The ecological damage is essentially that Africans live in Africa and want to stay alive, if not prosper. A fact generally ignored by folks not from Africa.

Elephants and lions are big. Big critters eat lots of food. And not all food is equal, obviously. Perfectly grilled and seasoned steak is obviously superior to granola. Equally so, a pen of well fed goats, pigs, cows or horses are easier and tastier than wild animals that will potentially object to being eaten. Africans sometimes object to wild animals destroying their livelihood and kill said animals. Without game preserves or dedicated hunting spaces, the Africans have every incentive to wipe out big lethal animals that want to kill them. Hence "ecological damage" of Africans obviously too lacking in altruism to kindly starve to death or whatnot because Westerns get upset at the notion of cute furry killing machines being harmed.

If you have 400 lions, and you annually kill say 50, you have 50 dead lions and around 50 lions surviving to adulthood, it's stays stable. if you stop hunting even for one year, you now have a minimum of 450 lions. More likely higher uh, lions have litters of two to four cubs. Under unlikely circumstances, 400 lions could turn into 800 lions in a single year.

Basically, whole problem is lots of people think nature is pretty, while not REMOTELY understanding how any of it works or worse, picking and choosing the parts they like.

[MechAg94]

From what I've read, big game hunting in Zimbabwe has been declining for years - ever since Mugabe's land seizures began - and game management in Zimbabwe has also suffered due to purges and such in the game department, so this situation did NOT happen overnight; it's only Cecil the Lion's demise that brought attention to the story.

(And besides, Cecil had it coming - he killed and ate Wanda the Wildebeest and made orphans of her babies.)

From what I remember reading, the hunting in Zimbabwe also paid for enforcement against poachers.  I heard gangs of Somalis were coming in and slaughtering animals for tusks, horns, etc. 

[brimic]

Basically, whole problem is lots of people think nature is pretty, while not REMOTELY understanding how any of it works or worse, picking and choosing the parts they like.

Worse- most people's perception of how things work in nature has been formed by Disney films.

[agricola]

Basically, whole problem is lots of people think nature is pretty, while not REMOTELY understanding how any of it works or worse, picking and choosing the parts they like.

That is the thing though - this isn't a natural phenomenon, it is one population of farmed animals becoming a problem because of changing circumstances affecting the humans that are responsible for them.  Personally, I think the criticism for this situation coming about should be aimed at the humans that are responsible for them.

Also the issue with elephants isn't that they destroy crops, its that their teeth are made of money.  Nor is it the case that killing elephants is an Africans vs callous Westerners thing; most of the people who poach elephants are the same people that blight the lives of the locals with their criminality of other kinds.

[RevDisk]

That is the thing though - this isn't a natural phenomenon, it is one population of farmed animals becoming a problem because of changing circumstances affecting the humans that are responsible for them.  Personally, I think the criticism for this situation coming about should be aimed at the humans that are responsible for them.

Also the issue with elephants isn't that they destroy crops, its that their teeth are made of money.  Nor is it the case that killing elephants is an Africans vs callous Westerners thing; most of the people who poach elephants are the same people that blight the lives of the locals with their criminality of other kinds.

Humans are a natural phenomenon as well. 

The 'farmed' animals (it's a nature preserve, they're managed not specifically farmed) changed because people not related to the operation of the reserve essentially cut off their major source of funding. Other alternatives don't exist because of official or unofficial sanctions. I am having a hard time believing that you think a NATURE PRESERVE is a bad thing. If you gut a nature preserve's funding overnight when they're being responsible conservationists because of feelz before realz, you share the lion's share of the blame.

Yes, elephants do destroy crops. And destroy most normal barriers to keep critters OUT of crops. And it's the tusks rather than the teeth. That's usually a poacher issue. Which guess, hunting funds a lot of the anti-poaching efforts. Poachers do not generally get permits and restrict themselves to a specific criteria listed on the permit, which is driven by conservation goals.

[RoadKingLarry]

[Firethorn]

Yes, elephants do destroy crops. And destroy most normal barriers to keep critters OUT of crops. And it's the tusks rather than the teeth. That's usually a poacher issue. Which guess, hunting funds a lot of the anti-poaching efforts. Poachers do not generally get permits and restrict themselves to a specific criteria listed on the permit, which is driven by conservation goals.

When it comes to hunting semi-endangered animals legally, like the Rhino, it's usually a 'directed hunt' that amounts to selling the execution of a now undesirable member of the population.  And the PETA types STILL OBJECT.

Seriously.  Straight up situation that happened:  Black Rhino, effectively the 'head of the herd', gets too old to impregnate the females, but he's still around, and grumpier than ever.  Remember, the default state of Rhinos is pretty much grumpy to begin with.  He's attacking the females and calves.  He is thus no longer an asset to the herd.  At least Cecil was still protecting his cubs and such.

So they go to auction off the right to 'hunt' him.  I put hunt in quotes because, let's face it, the game guides know where he is, what he looks like, etc...  They're looking at clearing something crazy like half a million. 

Meanwhile the PETA types are like 'Can't they put him in a fenced area of his own?'  I'm like "But he's a wild animal!  He hasn't seen a fence in his life, and he'd want to be with his herd anyways!  He might be a Rhino, and they're definitely more independent than most cattle, but they still tend to form small associations. 

Besides, that half million is like 5 years of operating budget for the preserve!  With it they can afford to hire more rangers to protect the rest of the herd, as well as showing that said animals have value - it's when hunting and ranching of these animals is completely banned that they go extinct.  Offer sustainable amounts of hunting and you see what happens with Cecil's preserve.  They get overpopulated to the point that you need to keep hunting them!  At approximately $50k/head, each lion pays for a couple rangers.

[brimic]

Maybe peta folks could put up the money to win the auction on angry old rhino bastard, then go out and live trap it. I'd pay to observe that entire circus

[MechAg94]

There is a market for ivory and rhino horn.  They can't seem to face facts that if you eliminate the legal supply, the illegal supply becomes more valuable and more people will take risks to get in on the action. 

[Ben]

Maybe peta folks could put up the money to win the auction on angry old rhino bastard, then go out and live trap it. I'd pay to observe that entire circus

On a serious note, there's no reason PETA and other organizations (or even individual SJWs) can't put their money where their mouth is, outbid the hunters, and yeah, pay to have professionals tranq the animals and transport them to a preserve purchased or leased by said SJWs, where the animals could live out their lives. It's easier to just have a big mouth though.

[Andiron]

Since no one has yet linked it:

Lawdog has words.

http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2016/02/nice-going-tofu-breath.html

[LadySmith]

I take issue with the killing of Cecil because it wasn't a "hunt". He was a popular tourist attraction who was lured off protected land and killed for his head.
I understand that culling is sometimes necessary to protect people and the species. If that's that case, go hunting for real.

[cordex]

I take issue with the killing of Cecil because it wasn't a "hunt". He was a popular tourist attraction who was lured off protected land and killed for his head.
I understand that culling is sometimes necessary to protect people and the species. If that's that case, go hunting for real.

Culling is almost never "real" hunting.