It's official - the first Arfcommer I meet in real life..

[Guest]

I WILL kick them in the shins. And every single one after that.

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=419736

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

Ah yes, the ever-present "Democrats will take away your guns and freedoms! Vote Bush!"
Of course, no one talks about how the Constitution has been gang-raped by Bush, and our "Republican" controlled congress.

[garyk/nm]

OMG! I have never visited Arfcom before, and I am glad that I haven't!  What a bunch of lunatics. I'm guessing that Digdug is one of those armchair commandos we love to make fun of. He really, really needs a good pimp-slappin'.
Every time someone speaks up with a rational POV, there's digdug to slap them down and namecall.
Nope, I won't be going back there anytime soon.
Dang, now I'm having visions of the photo that one of our members accidently linked to and got banned (temporarily) from THR.
Make it go away!

[Ron]

Why would you even go to the general forums at arfcom?

Your whining about arfcom will keep people away from the technical forums where the BS isn't tolerated.  There is a wealth of knowledge on that site and many from THR and TFL can be found there.

Why even post a link? Do want to bring the level of discourse here down to that level?

[mtnbkr]

Poop floats to the surface and that forum is the cesspool.

You never answered the question.  Why do you go there if you hate it so?

Chris

[MaterDei]

Ah yes, the ever-present "Democrats will take away your guns and freedoms! Vote Bush!"
Of course, no one talks about how the Constitution has been gang-raped by Bush, and our "Republican" controlled congress.

Dasmi, why the Republican/Bush bashing?  Not all of us who would have sooner died than have voted for Kerry voted for Bush.

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

MaterDei,
I voted for the man.  But I have been betrayed.  Please, tell me how Kerry would've been worse?
How has Bush protected your freedom?

[Brad Johnson]

Please, tell me how Kerry would've been worse?

You would prefer a complete repeal of the Second Amendment, perhaps?

Brad

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

How has Bush done anything to protect it?  So he allowed the assault weapons ban to expire. yippee. Is he attempting to reverse other anti-gun legislation?
Oh, I know, is he protecting our right to privacy?  Or is he allowing the NSA to monitor Americans without a warrant? Hmm.

[Brad Johnson]

I didn't say anything about Bush. I asked a question in response to your post. A question which you have not answered.

I ask again, "Do you prefer a repeal of the Second Amendment?"

Brad

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

And that is a ridiculous question.  Of course I would not prefer that.  But saying something MUST happen because it's possible is a logical fallacy.  Kerry would not automatically 2nd ammendment repeal.  And, I'm not saying Kerry would be better.  I am saying Bush, Kerry, and all the rest, suck.  No one cares about the security of America (see the border) and no one cares about the rights, privacy, and freedoms of Americans (see the PATRIOT Act.)

[Brad Johnson]

And that is a ridiculous question.  Of course I would not prefer that.

Thank you. Now, given the choice of only two candidates, would you prefer Kerry or Bush?

Brad

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

I voted for Bush.  So I made my choice.  However, given the choice again, I would vote for neither of them.  And in the future, if I see another Bush-like Republican, they won't get my vote.  I'll vote third party, or stay home and watch America die on CNN.

[jefnvk]

Is he attempting to reverse other anti-gun legislation?

I consider maintaining status quo a big plus over trying to get rid of it.

It is a good site for technical stuff.  GD is too idiotic for me.

Just because there is one bad part of the site, doesn't make the whole site bad.  Gunboards has the Minefield (or did at one point, haven't been there in a while, might be gone now), that was far worse than even ARFCOM, didn't keep me from going to the rest of the forums they had.

[Brad Johnson]

I voted for Bush.  So I made my choice.  However, given the choice again, I would vote for neither of them.  And in the future, if I see another Bush-like Republican, they won't get my vote.  I'll vote third party, or stay home and watch America die on CNN.

Then you are part of the problem. No matter how well intentioned the voter, a vote cast for a candidate that has no chance of winning is a vote thrown away. It is not a help, it is a hinderance. You might as well be voting for the opposition.

Righteous indignation is great for making speeches but not for making long-term decisions that require a more rational, empirical, and realistic approach. Think about the consequences of your actions. Knowingly throwing away a vote just to sooth your sensibilities is what liberals do. Not voting at all is a cop-out.

Make your vote count, even if it takes voting for someone you don't necessarily like. If you aren't prepared to do that, then maybe you really should stay at home and "watch America die on CNN." It will shorten the lines for the rest of us who care to make our votes as effective as possible.

Brad

p.s - and what are you doing watching CNN anyway? There are much less biased news sources available.

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.
I will not fall into the "Democrats Bad, Republicans Good" trap.  Sorry, but the Republicans control the Whitehouse, and the Congress, and we are still on a train to hell.  Might be a little slower than if Kerry & Crew were in charge, but the destination is the same.  I will vote for someone who represents me, or not at all.

[Brad Johnson]

Like I said, you are part of the problem

Brad

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

Part of the problem because I refuse to vote for evil, even if it's slightly less evil?

[Brad Johnson]

Part of the problem because you actively choose to throw away your vote (or not vote at all) just to soothe your conscience instead of using your vote to the greatest effect.

Emotion versus reality. Maybe some day you will understand.

Brad

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

I vote reality.  The reality is, if another Bush-style republican gets into office, we'll have more of the same.  This is not acceptable to me.

[Brad Johnson]

The reality is, your throwaway vote counts for nothing.

Scenario

You are falling off a cliff and have a choice of:

A) A rotten rope that is, notheless, attached to something and at least in one piece and will probably stay that way long enough for you to pull yourself up and replace it

B) A regular rope that appears to be sound and knotted securely but that you know will probably break once you put your weight on it, sending you plummeting to the bottom

C) A strong, perfect, unblemished rope that is coiled neatly off to the side and attached to nothing.

Using your logic, "C" is the correct choice. Yes, you have selected a perfect rope, but threw away your selection on a good product that had no real chance of helping you. It might make you feel better in the immediate, but in the end you are still dead.

Brad

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

I disagree.  One, your analogy doesn't really apply.  And two, if I continue voting for Bush-type republicans, I'm still dead in the end anyway.  So "a part of the problem" I shall be, I suppose.

[Brad Johnson]

One, your analogy doesn't really apply.

In what way? And if it is so unapplicable, why do you refer back to it in your reply?

Brad

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

I can't comment on arfcommers, since I'm not a member of that board, but you are correct.  
I don't really want to talk politics on APS anyway, it's my escape from the politics of THR.  I think I'll go read that Scotch and Cigars thread again.

[Brad Johnson]

Heck with the thread, why not just go ahead and indulge in one of each?

Long ago I decided not to talk about religion or politics over beer. It makes the evening much more pleasant. I think I will amend that to "...over beer or on APS."

Brad