Somes folks should not be in Police work...

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

how long do we keep a soldier in the ao with folks "he hates" before we rotate em out?  and do you feel the percentage of cops who crack is higher or lower than the percentage of soldiers who cross the line and do something illegal or immoral. ie rip something off or abuse a prisoner

[Balog]

Had some NG types across the canal from us who were there over a year and a half when I left. Never personally saw any real ROE violations. But let's be honest, are the vast majority (or any, for that matter) of areas in the US in any way analogous to a combat zone?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

thank god the vast majority the answer is no.  any?  that depends who you ask.

by no means take this as a shot at those who serve but do you think the percentage of soldiers who cross the line is higher or lower than the percentage of cops?

[Balog]

I'd say lower.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i think so too  now if we allowed those same folks to operate with the same lack of imediate supervision that some police units do would that change?  do you think that if given the oppurtunity to get rich with "no harm no one knowing" would more yield to temptation?


i don't know how we could get reliable stats to confirm or refute these beliefs. maybe someone else does.  if we are right  what is it that makes the soldier less corruptable? 

[Berettababe]

Quoted for ironic poignancy.

Either your wit is dryer than mine and I've missed the humor here, or perhaps your statement could be rephrased.

-BP

What's wrong with him hating "hadjis"?

I spent time in north africa and the middle east, serving as a peace corps volunteer.

If anything, he was putting it mildly. Some cultures encourage and propogate traditions and sets of characteristics which deserve to be hated.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

thats whats funny  they feel that way about some of our traditions and characteristics

[Balog]

And they're wrong. What's your point?

[Berettababe]

thats whats funny  they feel that way about some of our traditions and characteristics

Moral equivalence to the rescue!  

Anyway, what seperates us from third world countries and cultures is our for the most part reliable law enforcement.

The cop and his son who caused the event we are discussing would be more suited as corrupt federales in mexico, or perhaps hawaii (for all practical purposes there are seperate justice systems for native hawaiians and the marginalized Black underclass).

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

their country their tradition  our country our traditions  call it a libertarian streak

[Berettababe]

their country their tradition  our country our traditions  call it a libertarian streak

After searching through your posts on this board before deciding to hold my tongue in another thread some time ago, I don't really see a libertarian streak being consistent with your character. Contrarian/authoritarian, with an emphasis on Contrarian, perhaps.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

thats why its called a streak

[Balog]

My theory is that csd says whatever he feels will get the biggest rise out of the person he's talking to most of the time. Just ignore him when he gets like that.

In any case, I find it impossible to believe you make no judgments of other cultured, libertarian streak or not. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

oh i make judgements some pretty harsh severe ones.  i just don't usually fantasize about inflicting my judgement on folks in other countries if it can possibly be avoided. as much because i fear the consequences as outa moral concerns. 

i can empathize with the hate   i hate as well as anyone i know  have found it an emotion that is not good for me.ymmv
best/worst example i've seen of late is a helper who was in the lebanon barracks asleep  wwoke up fubar in the street his hate ate him up  kept him sick in many ways

[Balog]

What the hell are you talking about? Where have I fantasized about inflicting anything on anyone? And who says I hate members of that culture? I hate the culture, certainly, and I'm prepared to take people who perpetuate it on a case by case basis. Please stop reading things into my text that aren't there.

[Berettababe]

i can empathize with the hate   i hate as well as anyone i know

I'm guessing grammar and punctuation are on your hate lists..  

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if you thought i was referring to you specifically i apologise i intended it as a more general commentary  rather than one directed at you. my mistake.its often interesting to see how different folks percieve different cultures . japanese cultures behavior towards women for example is in many ways very harsh  but outwardly its percieved as polite so is more palatable

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I'm guessing grammar and punctuation are on your hate lists..  

no just very low on my priority list

[Antibubba]

My theory is that csd says whatever he feels will get the biggest rise out of the person he's talking to most of the time. Just ignore him when he gets like that.

And suddenly I flash to a hairy Iranian president in a polyester sport coat.

[KD5NRH]

i think part of the problem is the length of time they have deal with societys less desireable.

They are the ones that choose to take their lunches together.  The only time they're required to deal with the least desireable is at the shift briefings.

[BrokenPaw]

What's wrong with him hating "hadjis"?

I spent time in north africa and the middle east, serving as a peace corps volunteer.

If anything, he was putting it mildly. Some cultures encourage and propogate traditions and sets of characteristics which deserve to be hated.

I honestly cannot believe I have to spell this out for you.  The thing that's wrong with hating "effing hajjis" is the same thing that's wrong with someone hating "effing niggers".  Or "effing kikes".  Or "effing spics".  Or "effing <any derogatory name for a group, that encompasses all of the spite that a person feels for individuals, and applies it to an entire group>".

Everyone knows that all Muslims hate the west.  Everyone knows all Jews are money-grubbers.  Everyone knows that all Christians hate fags.  Everyone knows all gays are promiscuous.  Everyone knows all pagans sacrifice babies for Dark Sabbats.  Everyone knows all women belong in the kitchen because they can't do a man's work.  Everyone knows all gun owners are violent psychopaths.  Everyone knows all priests are child molesters.

Are there any other sweeping and unfounded generalizations I've missed?   :rolleyes:

Saying that you hate "effing hajjis" is a hell of a lot different from saying that you hate the people you had to deal with; it lumps an entire race into the group of "people to be hated".

If a culture, as you say, propagates traditions and sets of characteristics that deserve to be hated, that does not mean that everyone from that bloodline, that culture, that region of the world, is worthy of hatred.

I imagine that somewhere out there there is an "effing hajji" who would love to shake your hand and try to work to get the culture of the middle east out of the dark ages.  Would you take that hand?  If you say you would, I call BS.  Because if you're OK with labeling an entire group with a term like "effing hajjis", you're no longer looking at individuals.  You're assuming that all of the individuals of a group are the same, and worthy of your derision.

-BP

[Balog]

Yeah yeah yeah, spare me the righteous indignation. Anyone who dares criticize a culture is just an evil racist etc. Excuse me for not being politically correct enough for you. Perhaps you could dismount that high horse of yours long enough to attempt to comprehend what I actually said instead of launching into a bunch of emotional red herrings.

The culture is broken. People who wish to go against and change it are by definition not a part of that culture and thus not covered by the cultural (not racial as you seem to think) pejorative I used. Similar to the difference between a black person and a gang banger. One is racial and no use in discerning the heart, one is cultural and by definition applies to attitudes and actions.

[Ex-MA Hole]

Gentlemen, and ladies, please remember to read the "polite" part of the forum name.

[BrokenPaw]

Yeah yeah yeah, spare me the righteous indignation. Anyone who dares criticize a culture is just an evil racist etc. Excuse me for not being politically correct enough for you. Perhaps you could dismount that high horse of yours long enough to attempt to comprehend what I actually said instead of launching into a bunch of emotional red herrings.

Actually, if you peer through the red haze that's obscuring your monitor, you'll notice that I was going after Berettababe this time, not you.  And I didn't say criticizing a culture is racist.  I said that using racist terms to criticize a culture is racist.  And unproductive.  And disingenuous. And beneath the level of discourse appropriate to this venue.

Yes.  I understand your point.  The Muslim culture of the middle east is broken.  I agree with you on that point.  But calling them names doesn't help anything, and allows entire swathes of people to be dismissed as "just <epithet>s".

The inner-city black culture is arguably just as broken (though in different ways, and with different results), but if you had been working in the inner city, and were posting here about hating the "effing niggaz" that you were forced to work with, people would be all over you for your terminology.  I was simply trying to point out that hating all members of a race that is broken (and using racist terms for it to boot) is counterproductive to actually solving anything, because it automatically discounts and dismisses the people within that culture who are trying to fix it, or get out of it.  Worse, it actively hurts those within the culture who would work with us to make things better, by causing us to act as if they're no different from the worst examples of what they're trying to overcome.

If that puts me on a high horse, then I apologize.  I shall take my horse and yield the floor to you.  Hate away.

-BP

[roo_ster]

BrokenPaw:

I don't give a rat's hind end if you hate me or any-one/race/culture for any reason whatsoever.

I do care how you treat me & others.

The liberal who oppresses me because he loves me too much to allow me access to arms or transfats is much more a menace than the libertarian who hates my guts, but leaves me the heck alone.

Also, "hadjis" is a colloquial term for "jihadi*."  Even if meant with malice in one's heart, a term that explicitly refers to a religion that is multi-racial would be difficult to prove as racist.  Thus comparisons to *let's not go there*, gook, wog, & other such racial terms are not valid.

Seems to me Balog acted in a professional manner, despite developing an antipathy to the locals from his dealings with them.  That is the most we can insist upon without invoking Thoughtcrime penalties.

* Alternately, "haji," in some folks conception might refer to one who has completed the haj, a Muslim religious journey.