Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 22, 2007, 07:53:12 AM
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(CBS) NEW YORK They were celebrating outside the governor's office Friday as Eliot Spitzer handed a landmark victory to a half-million illegal immigrants.
The state will no longer require proof of citizenship for driver's licenses.
"We're changing our policy with respect to getting more people out of shadows and into the system so people don't hide they're here," Spitzer said.
He said the current restrictions on non-citizens have filled the roads with unlicensed drivers five times more likely to get into accidents.
But the also called it a matter of justice.
"As long as I'm governor we won't pretend they don't exist, cut them off from society," Spitzer said.
But the action triggered a bitter response from some 9/11 family members, who said the governor would be providing identification for potential terrorists.
And a Brooklyn state senator says he'll try to overturn the decision.
"This governor has chosen to give the keys to the city, the keys to the state to terrorism," Golden said.
As for the public, it's clear that people have strong feelings on both sides of the issue.
"I dont think if you're here illegally you should have the same privileges people who are here legally do," office manager Cliff Hoffman said.
Added legal word processor Bill Slater: "I think illegal people are getting a free ride. I don't think it's fair to other hard-working citizens who do work hard."
Planning consultant John Madden said the move is also a pre-emptive strike against another type of potentially hazardous driver.
"The problem is they're gonna drive anyway," Madden said. "You might as well make them legal drivers with insurance."
The new rules will start to kick in at the end of the year, unless someone finds a way to put a halt to them.
Under the new policy, the Department of Motor Vehicles will accept foreign passports and birth certificates from immigrants as proof of identification. They will no longer need to provide a Social Security card.
The state will no longer require proof of citizenship for driver's licenses.
"We're changing our policy with respect to getting more people out of shadows and into the system so people don't hide they're here," Spitzer said.
He said the current restrictions on non-citizens have filled the roads with unlicensed drivers five times more likely to get into accidents.
But the also called it a matter of justice.
"As long as I'm governor we won't pretend they don't exist, cut them off from society," Spitzer said.
But the action triggered a bitter response from some 9/11 family members, who said the governor would be providing identification for potential terrorists.
And a Brooklyn state senator says he'll try to overturn the decision.
"This governor has chosen to give the keys to the city, the keys to the state to terrorism," Golden said.
As for the public, it's clear that people have strong feelings on both sides of the issue.
"I dont think if you're here illegally you should have the same privileges people who are here legally do," office manager Cliff Hoffman said.
Added legal word processor Bill Slater: "I think illegal people are getting a free ride. I don't think it's fair to other hard-working citizens who do work hard."
Planning consultant John Madden said the move is also a pre-emptive strike against another type of potentially hazardous driver.
"The problem is they're gonna drive anyway," Madden said. "You might as well make them legal drivers with insurance."
The new rules will start to kick in at the end of the year, unless someone finds a way to put a halt to them.
Under the new policy, the Department of Motor Vehicles will accept foreign passports and birth certificates from immigrants as proof of identification. They will no longer need to provide a Social Security card.
Quote
"The problem is they're gonna drive anyway," Madden said. "You might as well make them legal drivers with insurance."
What makes you think they'll get insurance?
Post by: Manedwolf on September 22, 2007, 08:19:59 AM
As for the terrorists, NYC isn't going to learn till it's in flames. But what can you do?
I just feel sorry for upstaters with this decision. NY is a really big state with a concentrated bit of stupid at the bottom.
Post by: longeyes on September 22, 2007, 09:01:40 AM
Spitzer has the chutzpah to talk about this as "justice?" Justice requires spine. He's just another rich boy with a law degree and an inflated notion of who he is.
Post by: slzy on September 22, 2007, 01:16:44 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 22, 2007, 01:55:22 PM
Post by: Desertdog on September 22, 2007, 02:57:52 PM
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But what can you do?
We can't do anything, BUT the Feds could cut their Federal Funding.
Post by: CAnnoneer on September 22, 2007, 03:33:37 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 22, 2007, 03:43:38 PM
Ahh, because THAT would be stomped. Selective enforcement is quite telling, isn't it?
Post by: slzy on September 22, 2007, 05:18:23 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 22, 2007, 05:52:05 PM
if you live in ny and need something done about your dl,better do it now. there are illegals moving as we type to ny,w/o a word of english that will spend days at the dmv. dmv offices will soon look like refugee camps.
Then at least we'll know where to send the Migra.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 22, 2007, 07:43:28 PM
Post by: CAnnoneer on September 22, 2007, 07:52:57 PM
what fed law are they breaking?
I am no lawyer but it seems to me that if being in the country illegally is a crime, using a false identity, and voting while not being a citizen is another crime, then providing legal documents helping those crimes is "aiding and abetting". When politicians do it for votes, it becomes conspiracy to commit electoral fraud, which is a crime as well. At the very least, providing such documents is a serious impediment to national security and when done for personal advantage (e.g. by pandering politicians), is tantamount to high treason.
As an aside, we live in curious times when behavior that is clearcut treason is encouraged rather than severely punished. Just one of the symptoms of systemic failure of the body polite.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 22, 2007, 07:57:01 PM
Post by: slzy on September 23, 2007, 05:02:45 AM
the illegals well parade around in circles guessing at the multi choice questions till they get them right.
what are the laws concerning foreign nationals and pass ports? anyone here travel abroad with out one,or a visa?
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 23, 2007, 05:31:13 AM
Post by: slzy on September 23, 2007, 06:01:36 AM
Post by: jeepmor on September 23, 2007, 06:24:51 AM
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As for the terrorists, NYC isn't going to learn till it's in flames. But what can you do?
Let it burn.
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I just feel sorry for upstaters with this decision. NY is a really big state with a concentrated bit of stupid at the bottom.
What is it about money and the East Coast that makes people so dumb? Oh yeah, Hillary and Guiliani.
This sounds like a NY Democratic play to get some votes from one of the states with the most electoral votes. It's either a direct Hillary play, or a RINO Guiliani play, whaddya think?
Post by: Manedwolf on September 23, 2007, 06:50:40 AM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 23, 2007, 03:09:50 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 23, 2007, 03:15:40 PM
Post by: Balog on September 24, 2007, 10:04:31 AM
Next up: voter registration via driver's license.
Yep; guess they were running out of dead guys to vote for em and turned to illegals.
anyone quote the fed law broken by the granting of a license?
Uhh, the immigration laws? You know, that's why they're called illegal immigrants; too selfish to bother going through the process to come here legally.
If they decide that federal law doesn't apply to them and can openly defy it, why can't we suddenly decide that federal law doesn't apply to us, and start making machine guns for fun at home?
Ahh, because THAT would be stomped. Selective enforcement is quite telling, isn't it?
Ahh, because THAT would be stomped. Selective enforcement is quite telling, isn't it?
Wasn't there a case in Alaska where a guy making his own multi-boomers was ruled to be outside fed.gov jurisdiction since he wasn't engaging in "interstate commerce?"
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 24, 2007, 04:34:47 PM
Post by: Antibubba on September 24, 2007, 07:54:47 PM
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We can't do anything, BUT the Feds could cut their Federal Funding.
I expect that the AG's office will soon announce special restrictions and screenings for anyone holding a NY Driver's license, anytime they try to board a plane or cross a border.
This was the threat that prevented Licenses for illegals passing into law here in California.
OTOH, maybe this will convince our illegals to head East. We have plenty to spare.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 24, 2007, 09:53:17 PM
so i hearing or rather by the lack of a law cited not hearing that in fact there is no federal law being broken by the act of granting licenses? are you fellers taking the stance that you want the states to engorce for the feds? you want them doing that just in this narrow instance cause it suits your agenda? or you gonna sign on for the states helping the atf and irs etc on everybody. be careful what you wish for the genie once outa the bottle might spoil your fun
I don't think you're quite getting it. Technically, if someone comes in and is an illegal alien, if you help them with something and ignore the fact that they're in violation of federal law, you're aiding and abetting a felon.
Hm. That might be a good angle to use on this. Arrest people who help them dodge the law!!!
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 24, 2007, 10:13:32 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 24, 2007, 10:48:48 PM
you have to know someone is committing a crime. sadly for your "cause" darker skin isn't probable cause nor is an accent. but maybe you can work out something gold star maybe?
RACE CARD PLAYED.
Please cite anywhere I cited race?
Post by: CAnnoneer on September 26, 2007, 07:04:17 PM
Post by: Desertdog on September 26, 2007, 07:33:54 PM
It does not matter what country they came from, nor if they speak a different language or dress differently as long as they TRY to asimilate into the American culture.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 27, 2007, 03:29:35 AM
Post by: slzy on September 27, 2007, 05:36:02 PM
piling up at the emergency rooms sending their kids to school like we owe it too them. their arrogance when they found out the police won't touch them. the catholic church,the labor unions,and the leftists embracing them. the politicians ruling by decree rather than law. these are some of my experiences.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 27, 2007, 06:37:47 PM
how many million chinese are here? be greatful the chinese can't swim or you'd really be crying no not crying more likely speaking cantonese
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 27, 2007, 07:40:58 PM
Post by: Paddy on September 27, 2007, 07:58:31 PM
cassy'sdaddy, are you sympathetic to illegal aliens just because you have a similar difficulty with the English language?
Cold shot, Mr. Maintenance Man.
Post by: Nitrogen on September 27, 2007, 08:18:58 PM
In fact, most lefties should be against it, as it's horrible for organized labor, among many other things that most righties already know.
NYC is so far left, they make San Francisco look like Dallas. Further proof that New York is so far to the left that it's about to fall off.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 27, 2007, 08:21:59 PM
Post by: Paddy on September 27, 2007, 08:24:35 PM
I thought not.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 27, 2007, 08:27:54 PM
Post by: Paddy on September 27, 2007, 08:30:10 PM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 27, 2007, 08:32:20 PM
Post by: Paddy on September 27, 2007, 09:04:50 PM
Really? I thought that was Carson.
Carson sucks, too. As does Fontana. And Riverside and San Berdoo. Santa Maria sucks. The entire LA area is a cesspool. You're in a great area, as am I.
Post by: Glock Glockler on September 28, 2007, 05:10:15 AM
Spitzer said outright that the puspose of the change is to make it so that illegals can get licenses.
"We're changing our policy with respect to getting more people out of shadows and into the system so people don't hide they're here," Spitzer said
A very simple law would fix all this nonsense: the Feds can very easily set up a service where employers can call in and verify the SSN of a perspective employee, after all, we wouldn't want Social Security fraud going on. Require that anyone hired in thye last year would have to be verified within the next 6 months, everyone hired in the last 2 years would have to be verified within the next year, etc. The people with BS numbers will not be able to cheat the system any longer and will then return to their country of origin.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 28, 2007, 05:23:01 AM
you have to know someone is committing a crime
Spitzer said outright that the puspose of the change is to make it so that illegals can get licenses.
"We're changing our policy with respect to getting more people out of shadows and into the system so people don't hide they're here," Spitzer said
A very simple law would fix all this nonsense: the Feds can very easily set up a service where employers can call in and verify the SSN of a perspective employee, after all, we wouldn't want Social Security fraud going on. Require that anyone hired in thye last year would have to be verified within the next 6 months, everyone hired in the last 2 years would have to be verified within the next year, etc. The people with BS numbers will not be able to cheat the system any longer and will then return to their country of origin.
Spitzer said outright that the puspose of the change is to make it so that illegals can get licenses.
"We're changing our policy with respect to getting more people out of shadows and into the system so people don't hide they're here," Spitzer said
A very simple law would fix all this nonsense: the Feds can very easily set up a service where employers can call in and verify the SSN of a perspective employee, after all, we wouldn't want Social Security fraud going on. Require that anyone hired in thye last year would have to be verified within the next 6 months, everyone hired in the last 2 years would have to be verified within the next year, etc. The people with BS numbers will not be able to cheat the system any longer and will then return to their country of origin.
gee great idea! wonder why no one thought of that!
oh wait we already have a way to call in numbers? but its doesn't seem to work as some would imagine?wow simple plans sometimes turn out like that
funny how some folks wanna invite more government in thier life when it serves "le cause"
Post by: Glock Glockler on September 28, 2007, 05:32:08 AM
Next, that service exists right now but employers are not required to verify SSN authenticity, big difference.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 28, 2007, 06:07:54 AM
Post by: Glock Glockler on September 28, 2007, 06:14:04 AM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 28, 2007, 06:28:50 AM
Post by: CAnnoneer on September 28, 2007, 06:54:51 AM
You match the photo to the name and then the name to the database. Besides, there is no reason why the database cannot have your pic. That way, fake IDs will do you no good because you cannot falsify the gov record that is available on tap. All of this is technically just as easy as checking credit score for loans and renting, or just even using a credit card. That's why I suspect its "technical" opponents of purposeful obtuseness and bad faith.
Post by: Laurent du Var on September 28, 2007, 07:16:29 AM
funny how some folks wanna invite more government in thier life when it serves "le cause"
now theres someone who understands "le cause"
[/quote]
I knew someone who once spent some time in the US (California)as a totally illegal
immegrant for quite some time before 2001 in the nineties.
Cash on the hand for different jobs : Furniture mover, bus boy, receptionnist,
limo driver. He was catholic, had a thick foreign accent but good manners and was very well received by everybody, he passed the test for a driving licence opened a bank account and was never ever even once asked for a visa or a social sec. N°.
Never. He paied some parking tickets and was pulled over for speeding or an unsave turn - paied the fine: have a good day, sir. It was the best time of his life, he then went back home to finish his studies. Before that he met his wive in LA who worked back then for one of the CEOs of Fox TV. Last thing I heard about him he's got a couple of kids works a boring job is getting bald, fat and drives a rust bucket volvo
and took up target shooting. He also hangs out on the Internet, a lot.
Oh, it's "la cause".
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 28, 2007, 07:17:53 AM
Post by: slzy on September 28, 2007, 01:04:41 PM
Post by: slzy on September 28, 2007, 01:09:25 PM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 28, 2007, 01:11:57 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 28, 2007, 02:59:48 PM
i understand those who fear the immigrants though i don't. i have no control over their fear and the may be right.
i respect those who are opposed on legal principle. i have no choice . a man of principle deserves no less even tough his point of view is different from mine. and again they may well be right.lord knows i'm not the oracle
but i have always lived with "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and there is a strong component against the imigrants that is to me like a roach underfoot. and they often hide behind education and nice clothes.but the aroma gives em away. and i promisethat i will never waver in opposing and hunting them. to me they are the vultures that lurk on the fringes of society and seek to latch on to a veneer of class by hitching their star to that good folks.
sorry bout the long windedness and i can't stress enough its not my intent to slander any of the many good folks on here.and to any good honorable folks on here who think i've slandered them i apologize and assure you its not my intent.
and should you be one of those i hunt may we meet soon while i'm young enough to enjoy it
Post by: CAnnoneer on September 28, 2007, 03:29:50 PM
Nobody on this forum, as far as I can tell, is against immigration - meaning the legal kind. You might be trying to run away from hell itself; you are still breaking the laws of this country if you enter and stay illegally. So, that's no excuse especially since there are hundreds of thousands out there that go through the legal channels every year, and they certainly do not come from the Garden of Eden either.
There is a completely separate argument about legal immigration quotas, and reasonable people can disagree on the exact numbers. The only people that mix illegal and legal immigration are of two varieties: 1) the mentally negligent, and 2) sly propagandists that want to forward their agenda in the mirky water.
Post by: slzy on September 28, 2007, 05:41:59 PM
of course,we could devolve into a type of feudalism,which is evidently what many of you want.
or to "dialogue" what,with liberation theologists or chavezistas? suckers.