Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on April 13, 2024, 07:35:56 PM
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Not entirely random. I was watching 1985's The Philadelphia Experiment, in which two American sailors time-travel from 1941 to 1984. When one of them attempts to drive a late-model car, and asks where the clutch is, the owner of the car tells him it's an automatic. He asks, "what's an automatic?"
And for some reason, I want to fact-check a B movie from 40 years ago. I know auto transmissions were already in use in the 40s, but I don't know if they were called that at the time, rather than "Hydra-matic," or "Dynaflow," or what-have-you.
Anybody know? Should we ask Joe Biden?
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Anybody know? Should we ask Joe Biden?
"I invenned automagic transmushions, Jack!"
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Not entirely random. I was watching 1985's The Philadelphia Experiment, in which two American sailors time-travel from 1941 to 1984. When one of them attempts to drive a late-model car, and asks where the clutch is, the owner of the car tells him it's an automatic. He asks, "what's an automatic?"
And for some reason, I want to fact-check a B movie from 40 years ago. I know auto transmissions were already in use in the 40s, but I don't know if they were called that at the time, rather than "Hydra-matic," or "Dynaflow," or what-have-you.
Anybody know? Should we ask Joe Biden?
I think Powerglide was the other one. :) I think they were in use in the 40s but unusual. Maybe mid-50s they were common enough to have a name? The first vehicle I owned with an automatic was in the 80s, and at the time I thought an automatic in a truck (especially a 3/4 ton or bigger) was ridiculous until I owned one. I haven't had a standard since, but I can still drive one.
Daughter's first new car was a Pontiac G5 and she wanted a stick shift. My dad and I put about 80% down and I had her finance the rest. (to get her credit history started) She was about in tears the first time I took her to a big vacant parking lot to figure out how to use the clutch. 😂 (not tears of joy at the time) Eventually it "clicked" and she could drive it just fine. She has an automatic now, but she knows how to use a clutch like a boomer.
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Wiki says that the 1923 patent for the what would be the auto was titled "Automatic Gear Shift and Speed Control". 1939 was the start of GM hydraulic Automatics. The "Hydromatic" transmission was available in 1940 MY cars.
By 1957 80% of cars in the US were sold with automatics.
Folks from 1941, that knew how to drive, probably would have been familiar with the concept of cars you didn't have to shift, even if they hadn't driven one.
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Wiki says that the 1923 patent for the what would be the auto was titled "Automatic Gear Shift and Speed Control". 1939 was the start of GM hydraulic Automatics. The "Hydromatic" transmission was available in 1940 MY cars.
By 1957 80% of cars in the US were sold with automatics.
Folks from 1941, that knew how to drive, probably would have been familiar with the concept of cars you didn't have to shift, even if they hadn't driven one.
It is possible the term "automatic" may not have been in common use by 1941. Either way, sounds like the timing is close enough I would give the movie a pass on it.
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Wiki says that the 1923 patent for the what would be the auto was titled "Automatic Gear Shift and Speed Control". 1939 was the start of GM hydraulic Automatics. The "Hydromatic" transmission was available in 1940 MY cars.
By 1957 80% of cars in the US were sold with automatics.
Folks from 1941, that knew how to drive, probably would have been familiar with the concept of cars you didn't have to shift, even if they hadn't driven one.
I think the first car anyone in my family owned with an automatic transmission was my aunt's car, which was a 1951. It was a Hydramatic. The Buick automatic was the Dynaflow, and somebody else's was the PowerGlide.
Having grown up in the 1950s, I don't think it's correct that by 1957 80% of cars had automatics. I doubt it was even 50% by then.
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My parents were both born in 1935 and had learned to drive on standard transmissions, but my Grandparents had, apparently, pretty early on, had gotten on the automatic transmission track.
My Mom HATED driving standard transmission.
Neither of my Grandparents ever had a car with a standard.
When I was growing up the only car we had with a standard was my Dad's IH Scout II. That's the one I learned to drive on.
Every car I've ever bought, with the exception of the 2012 Forester, has been standard transmission.
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I barely remember that my parents had some early 50s Ford with a column shifter. But mostly remember a late 50s Mercury as their first auto transmission car (some time in the mid-60s). I learned to drive on my dad's 1970 F-100 with three on the tree and power nothing.
When I visited relatives in Germany in the mid-80s, manuals were probably 99% of the cars on the road. I recall that there were some "collector cars" that wealthy enthusiasts imported from the US that of course came with auto transmissions. Mustangs and Camaros and the like.
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I saw a car in the parking lot with the back window loaded with personal opinion sayings. One: "Real cars have three pedals."
My last stick was a four-speed Datsun 240Z. They had five-speed versions but I latched onto this one from a salvage lot. You'd be amazed (and some drivers at stop lights were) at how that little thing rabbited away when the light turned green. Chirped going into second.
Funny thing is I recently realized I probably could not drive a modern car with all the bells and whistles and other market-driven appurtenances. And keys? Over a hundred bucks for a spare (which don't work if either battery dies). Keys for my hard-keyed ignition are a little under $9.00 American Money. Funny: an insurance adjuster wanted to check the mileage on my car and asked for a key. He didn't realize the odometer was mechanical and could be read with the ignition off. Nineteen ninety-seven Subie-doo. We both laughed.
Passed emissions like a new car. The exhaust out of that thing is cleaner than the air going in.
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And keys? Over a hundred bucks for a spare (which don't work if either battery dies). Keys for my hard-keyed ignition are a little under $9.00 American Money.
Yeah dude, key fobs are more like $300 and up, even from a locksmith vs a dealer.
Which, while that might have been an understood (understood, NOT acceptable) charge when vehicles first started switching to them, every vehicle needs a fob now. Charging that much under current market conditions in analogous to paying $300 for a college textbook. It's more of a marketing scam than supply and demand should allow. At this point it shouldn't be more than $50 for a new fob, even from the dealer.
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Hyundai and Kia have cheaper FOBs with less expensive tech. What could go wrong?
FWIW fobs for Mrs. Mush's Bronco sport are like $35-$40 and I can program them myself as long as I still have two programmed fobs.
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The cost of new keys may be harsh, but at least you can buy once and cry once. Having to carry those overgrown things is a daily issue. Two flat keys (ignition key & body key) for my old GMC truck were easier to keep in my pocket than one key for the present Ford.
I think the first car anyone in my family owned with an automatic transmission was my aunt's car, which was a 1951. It was a Hydramatic. The Buick automatic was the Dynaflow, and somebody else's was the PowerGlide.
Having grown up in the 1950s, I don't think it's correct that by 1957 80% of cars had automatics. I doubt it was even 50% by then.
I think dogmush was talking about cars sold that year, and perhaps you are thinking about cars in use that year.
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Hyundai and Kia have cheaper FOBs with less expensive tech. What could go wrong?
I was meaning that good fobs with secure tech should be under $50. Which, apparently from your post, they sometimes are. The last time I replaced one, it was for my 2016 F150, and it was $250 at the locksmith, $350 if I would have went to the dealer.
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There are some good things of owning an older vehicle - two new keys (not cut) for my '98 RAM 1500 were $24 through Amazon. Can program them myself with 2 programed keys.
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There may have recently been some tech change making them cheaper. I don't shop for key fobs that often, but I remember looking at them when we bought the Bronco Sport last hear and thinking they were that bad.
Ben's F150 FOB is ~$50 on Amazon these days. 2016 F150 FOB (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=2016+f150+key+fob+replacement&hvadid=548295845759&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9012089&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=14294090972976743388&hvtargid=kwd-817987787211&hydadcr=25115_11415171&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_2jvbwnpgbe_e)
Programming might get you if you don't have two keys handy, but the doodad itself seems pretty reasonable. There are also online companies that will rent you a programmer for about $70 if you only have one key.
Someone getting hit up for $300 for a FOB is getting raped.
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There may have recently been some tech change making them cheaper. I don't shop for key fobs that often, but I remember looking at them when we bought the Bronco Sport last hear and thinking they were that bad.
Ben's F150 FOB is ~$50 on Amazon these days. 2016 F150 FOB (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=2016+f150+key+fob+replacement&hvadid=548295845759&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9012089&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=14294090972976743388&hvtargid=kwd-817987787211&hydadcr=25115_11415171&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_2jvbwnpgbe_e)
Programming might get you if you don't have two keys handy, but the doodad itself seems pretty reasonable. There are also online companies that will rent you a programmer for about $70 if you only have one key.
Someone getting hit up for $300 for a FOB is getting raped.
Well, it looks like they're cheaper, though I saw this at the link for the 2016 F150:
PROGRAMMING: Qualified Locksmiths or Dealership Are Required for Programming. Self-Programming Is Not Available.
I don't know if that's a disclaimer statement, or if some fobs are self-programmable and some not. Maybe enough people complained that for very new vehicles, the fobs are owner programmable. I don't know what a locksmith would charge for programming. I'm going from memory, but I'm thinking my fob was in the range of $125 for the fob and $125 for the locksmith.
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"My last stick was a four-speed Datsun 240Z. They had five-speed versions but I latched onto this one from a salvage lot. You'd be amazed (and some drivers at stop lights were) at how that little thing rabbited away when the light turned green. Chirped going into second."
I think the 240 and 260 were two of the most attractive mass market cars ever produced.
The 280 was also quite attractive, but the design changes that Nissan started adding with the 280s and later Z models really reduced their charm.
I got to drive a 260 in college that belonged to a classmate and absolutely fell in love with it.
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Some cars are limited in the overall number of fobs that can ever be programmed to them as well
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When I bought my current Forester in 2020 it came with only one key. Have NO clue how a retired couple, who only put 32,000 miles on it in a little under 5 years, managed to lose the valet key, the other fob key, and the master information.
When I bought my 2012 Forester in 2015 I got all of that stuff.
I figured I'd like to have a back up key, so I checked with the dealer... $250
So, I checked with a local locksmith chain that promises to "SAVE YOU LOTS OVER THE DEALER PRICE FOR NEW KEYS!"
They wanted $230, and programming was extra. Wow. BIG savings... ;/
I still only have the one key. I really should get another one.
As for these keys being too big to comfortably carry in your pocket... yeah, they're annoying.
So annoying, in fact, that I quit carrying my car and house keys in my pocket. I have them on a lanyard that I wear around my neck.
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I think the 240 and 260 were two of the most attractive mass market cars ever produced.
I think they are still good looking vehicles by today's standards. Better in many cases. Saw a well preserved 240 the other day. Very nice looking.
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I think they are still good looking vehicles by today's standards. Better in many cases. Saw a well preserved 240 the other day. Very nice looking.
Yeah, my statement wasn't pigeonholing them into cars produced in the 1970s or 1980s.
Ever produced is inclusive of the whole range of auto production, from the 1890s to today.
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If you have a working fob, check at O'Reilly, and see if they sell a replacement. I get so many people walking in the door, wanting one that works, and theirs has died. So you can't just transfer the programming. With a lot of cars, they're fairly cheap if you have a working one to do the programming yourself.
My fun car is a 2000 Hyundai Tiburon - fairly fun to drive, and I'm not into driving like a maniac.
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Master Sergeant wanted to race his 240 against my '67 Nova. When he finally got to the finish line he claimed to have fouled a spark plug. Whatever you say MS. ;)
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My 2006 F150 XL has no fob, but a duplicate key is $200. Thankfully, it came with two "real" keys, plus a flat key that just unlocks the doors.
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My 2006 F150 XL has no fob, but a duplicate key $200. Thankfully, it came with two "real" keys, plus a flat key that just unlocks the doors.
No it isn't. My 05 F150 came to me with 1 key. I got a key and programmer together for $85.
If you have two keys a circa 2006 transponder key is like $15 and can be programmed in the truck after you get it cut.
Is there some internet troll going around d posting outrageous prices for keys to make people think they can't get new ones?
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No it isn't. My 05 F150 came to me with 1 key. I got a key and programmer together for $85.
If you have two keys a circa 2006 transponder key is like $15 and can be programmed in the truck after you get it cut.
Is there some internet troll going around d posting outrageous prices for keys to make people think they can't get new ones?
I haven't asked anyone on the internet. The $200 price was what Menards was going to charge me. Home Depot didn't give me an actual price quote; they just said they don't handle those keys, and they cost "hundreds of dollars."
If I get this $15 key, it can be programmed for me? Is that where the programmer doo-dad comes in?
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If you have two working keys for the truck, you can program a third by yourself with just those two keys and the truck. There are videos online e of the steps to take.
If you only have one key, you need a third party programmer to program the second key to the truck. Something like this: OBDII key Programmer (https://www.amazon.com/USARemote-Programmer-Compatible-Explorer-Programming/dp/B0CX5L8GD9/ref=sr_1_8?crid=2XP9UDWZPK998&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.3qwiwIuqzKI8uIpam-h6R-aapOxvmrtN2dtAjb5-ICFoAWcGUzECXWUUdBbIBx9fhKCjRLlrfULxiqPD3pfbXQf3VpEZFkt86G6FQSHcc4-2Gv13AuNJYMKxpXcvPRa8LExbfMpvDHiIKj3FVqbMWAYFSR_Yhgpf3ANKdl82r3gAQ2sd5b9uuXV1RvTBBQUJtqMIgnodGXLPDsRLxGSvaRrEWhiWzYPA1B982eogvLFKHxnv4QY9FMpo148AxzxrDos5BEX2hQQCPYQrw2y0AXUc_zQN2ibCJZGL7RX2ki4.1VTq7FsjNXcv7nKxNC_UpaPqfFNnoqRmieMtD9WWgxg&dib_tag=se&keywords=Ford%2BKey%2BProgrammer%2B2006%2Bf150&qid=1713266681&replacementKeywords=key%2Bprogrammer&sprefix=ford%2Bkey%2Bprogrammer%2B2006%2Bf150%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-8&vehicle=2006-54-666------------&vehicleName=2006%2BFord%2BF-150&th=1)
It should be noted that most of those cheaper programmers lock to the car after you put the VIN in, and some may only work the once, so make sure you program enough keys when you use them.
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Master Sergeant wanted to race his 240 against my '67 Nova. When he finally got to the finish line he claimed to have fouled a spark plug. Whatever you say MS. ;)
The 240 wasn't a performance slouch, but the first models only produced about 130 brake horsepower with a 4-cylinder engine. Later models with the 6 cylinder engine still only produced around 150-160 BHP.... until US emissions controls started hitting really hard.
Every engine available for the 1967 model year of the Nova handily beat that HP rating, and did so with very few emissions controls.
The only thing fouled was the MSGT's brain for thinking he had a chance.
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The 240 wasn't a performance slouch, but the first models only produced about 130 brake horsepower with a 4-cylinder engine. Later models with the 6 cylinder engine still only produced around 150-160 BHP.... until US emissions controls started hitting really hard.
Every engine available for the 1967 model year of the Nova handily beat that HP rating, and did so with very few emissions controls.
The only thing fouled was the MSGT's brain for thinking he had a chance.
The MSGT should have found a track with turns. Would have helped him out.
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It was on a back road out in the county, a few twists & turns, not a straight line race. There wasn't much done to the engine, a small cam & Holly 650 - hadn't put the headers on it yet.