Author Topic: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero  (Read 8424 times)

MicroBalrog

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2012, 04:26:46 PM »
Try again. I do in fact deal with intellectual property for a living.
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longeyes

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2012, 05:05:47 PM »
You try again.  I create intellectual property for a living.

"Domari nolo."

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roo_ster

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2012, 06:24:00 PM »
longeyes, you are operating under a disadvantage that reality imposes on us all.

That being:

1. Unless the state enjoins a physical property owner from doing so, a physical property owner can defend his property and keep others from using it.  There is no need to develop a legal structure to support the concept.  Government is also not necessary (though gov't & law can be an aid).

2. Unless the state imposes itself and acts on his behalf, an intellectual property owner can not defend his property and keep others from using it.  It can not exist outside an entity that claims sovereignty, a monopoly on the legitimate use of force, and the willingness to use it on those who flout its laws.  Intellectual property in any sense of the words (copyright, trade mark, etc.) did not even exist before the 17th century or so.

This fellow:

likely produced the most significant bit of intellectual property in the last 1000 years.  Before the advent of copyright.
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roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2012, 06:57:37 PM »
You try again.  I create intellectual property for a living.



So do I.

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

MicroBalrog

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2012, 06:58:46 PM »
P.S. Movable type predates Guttenberg.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

longeyes

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2012, 06:58:58 PM »
I don't know what kind, but it doesn't matter.  So what's your point?
"Domari nolo."

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RevDisk

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2012, 06:58:59 PM »
Infringement of intellectual property does not deprive the owner of any usage, just a loss of potential profit?  Well, in that case, not to worry.  In a time oft called "The Information Age," in a time where just about everything we do and are has become ones and zeros intellectual property is vitally important as a principle.  Our inalienable rights are themselves not tangible.

I think you may have inadvertently not read the entire section.  "Infringement of IP does not deprive the owner of any usage, just loss of potential profit.  Which is a legit concern, if it hinders progress of science and useful arts, which it does.  But taken too far in either direction, it harms everyone involved."

Inalienable rights govern physical objects, specifically people.



Longeyes, ideas have been recognised as a source of profit for thousands of years - yet no one, founding fathers included, noticed that an idea was "property" in the same way as a house until the last hundred years.  Strangely, the development of this notion that there's a moral claim to cry "don't copy me!!!" (imagine kids in a school yard, and you have exactly the basis of an IP claim) didn't occur until massive corporations started lobbying the Government to take action against their competitors.  RevDisk's example is the prime case.

Throughout history, it's been widespread sharing of information that's driven some of our greatest innovation.  I can see no justification other than greed to discourage people from learning about ideas and doing what they can to improve them.

By 'greed', I assume you mean "profit motive necessary to further science and useful arts".  If folks don't make money, they cannot make science and arts.  If an artist only sells his paintings for the cost of canvas and paint, he cannot eat or buy extra canvas and paint.

I think we assign different values to the word.  I see "greed" as being stupid, short term (or limited) sight at long term expense. Pumping a company's quarterly earnings to the detriment of the next five fiscal years is greed IMHO, because it is blatantly stupid with drawbacks far outweighing the benefits. I do not see any form of profit inherently being greed.  Greed, IMHO, is a certain subset of stupidity or unethical behavior. 



Ah, now we are in the realm of negotiation, which in the end always comes down to who has the most power (guns?).  If intellectual property can be viewed as an extension of "the common good," real property can be viewed the same way--and in fact often has, not only abroad but right here in River City.

If I may, sir. The Constitution means what it says. There is no "common good" clause in the section authorizing IP laws.



Works are already protected, whether you acknowledge the distinction or not.  The issue is for how long and in what way.

For you to think that the estate of Charles Dickens is not entitled to the profits from A Christmas Carol in perpetuity but the heirs of the Rockefeller oil fortune are suggests a failure to appreciate or respect artistic creativity in whatever form.  For some reason you believe that "all" are entitled to fruits of a man's imagination whereas "all" are NOT entitled to the fruits of a man's labor or investment.  I contend this is an artificial and, worse, intellectually sloppy, distinction.

Copyright and patent exist, according to you, by the "artificial construct of the state."  Interesting.  And real property rights are, by contrast, God-given??? 

You must be a landowner, my brother; you are surely not someone who writes, does graphic art, or makes music.  :)

Again, sir, I respectfully state that you are confusing physical property and intellectual property.  Perhaps intentionally? The two are not the same by laws of physics, man and constitutional law. If you wish them to be, by all means, amend the Constitution.  Until you do, please respect the Constitution as it stands. It trumps all other laws of the United States.

Copyrights and patents are solely government granted monopolies. Government monopolies are not rights. Rights, including property rights, are endowed by "laws of nature and of nature's God" or Creator if you go by the Declaration of Independence. It's not directly specified in the Constitution to the origins of rights, just that you are born with them.


You try again.  I create intellectual property for a living.

Giving birth does not make one a doctor. It gives you an emotional connection to the process, but not a legal or technical understanding of process.

Actually, I need to get off my duff, have another beer, and write another brief for the WIPO. (No, I'm actually not kidding.)

;)
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

longeyes

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2012, 07:07:18 PM »
God didn't write the U.S. Constitution, but if He had He surely would have understood Creativity better than some of the people commenting on this thread.  I don't require a Congressional "monopoly" to tell me what is rightfully mine by virtue of the fact that I created it.  Perhaps we need to find in the 9A a right to ownership of one's own creative output as plausible as a right to privacy?
"Domari nolo."

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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Balog

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2012, 03:23:38 PM »
God didn't write the U.S. Constitution, but if He had He surely would have understood Creativity better than some of the people commenting on this thread.  I don't require a Congressional "monopoly" to tell me what is rightfully mine by virtue of the fact that I created it.  Perhaps we need to find in the 9A a right to ownership of one's own creative output as plausible as a right to privacy?

By hitting the quote button, I have stolen longeyes intellectual property. Let the looting begin!
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TommyGunn

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2012, 07:32:02 PM »
By hitting the quote button, I have stolen longeyes intellectual property. Let the looting begin!

Balog, consider yourself having been LOOTED! ;)
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roo_ster

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2012, 07:08:42 AM »
Balog, consider yourself having been LOOTED! ;)

Looter, loot thyself.

God didn't write the U.S. Constitution, but if He had He surely would have understood Creativity better than some of the people commenting on this thread.  I don't require a Congressional "monopoly" to tell me what is rightfully mine by virtue of the fact that I created it.  Perhaps we need to find in the 9A a right to ownership of one's own creative output as plausible as a right to privacy?

I suspect the 18th century authors of the COTUS understood intellectual property better than the goofballs who legislated about it in the 20th & 21st centuries.
Regards,

roo_ster

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TommyGunn

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2012, 10:56:21 AM »
Looter, loot thyself.

I suspect the 18th century authors of the COTUS understood intellectual property better than the goofballs who legislated about it in the 20th & 21st centuries.

Balog, consider yourself having been LOOTED! ;)

DONE!! =D [tinfoil]
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roo_ster

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Re: McInnes's Big Fat Pirate Hero
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2012, 11:19:16 AM »
DONE!! =D [tinfoil]

IP thief! 

How dare you steal back what has already been stolen from you, whilst leaving the original thief still in possession of his ill-gotten goods!?

Mayhap, the term "stolen" is not appropriate for discussing IP let loose in the wild?
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton