Author Topic: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.  (Read 3704 times)

Desertdog

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This can also be applied to the spread of some fires here in the USA, especially out west, because you cannot disturb certain species by removing the overgrowth in their habitat because of the Endangered Species Act.  It seems it is better to have the endangered species eliminated by fire than to disturb them.


Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy
Andrea Petrie, Arthurs Creek
http://www.theage.com.au/national/angry-survivors-blame-council-green-policy-20090211-83p0.html?page=-1

ANGRY residents last night accused local authorities of contributing to the bushfire toll by failing to let residents chop down trees and clear up bushland that posed a fire risk.

During question time at a packed community meeting in Arthurs Creek on Melbourne's northern fringe, Warwick Spooner — whose mother Marilyn and brother Damien perished along with their home in the Strathewen blaze — criticised the Nillumbik council for the limitations it placed on residents wanting the council's help or permission to clean up around their properties in preparation for the bushfire season. "We've lost two people in my family because you dickheads won't cut trees down," he said.

"We wanted trees cut down on the side of the road … and you can't even cut the grass for God's sake."

Later, the meeting was cut short when Mr Spooner's father, Dennis, collapsed in his chair and an ambulance had to be called. Despite losing his wife and son and everything he owned, a friend later said he had not stopped or slept since the weekend.

Another resident said she had asked the council four times to tend to out-of-control growth on public land near her home, but her pleas had been ignored.

There was widespread applause when Nillumbik Mayor Bo Bendtsen said changes were likely to be made about the council's policy surrounding native vegetation.

But his response was not good enough for Mr Spooner: "It's too late now mate. We've lost families, we've lost people."

More than 500 people spilled out of the small hall during the meeting, at which the CFA, Victoria Police, Department of Human Services and Telstra provided updates.

Many expressed anger that police road blocks were stopping them from reaching survivors trapped in fire-ravaged areas with no water, power or other basic needs. One man present spoke of counselling a woman whose two children had been killed and whose grief had been compounded by not knowing where they were because the area had been declared a crime scene and she had not been allowed to return.

Most of those present were tired, grieving the loss of relatives and friends and with little more than the smoke-coated clothes on their backs. Some were still showing symptoms of shock after experiencing the worst natural disaster in the nation's history.

Scattered around the hall and outside were trestle tables with clothing sorted in neat piles, toiletries, food and bottled water. On the floor were dozens of pairs of shoes. There was also a section dedicated to baby clothes and another for children's toys.

Of all the speakers who addressed the meeting, it was Arthurs Creek CFA Captain David McGahy who got the most rousing reception.

Choking back tears he told them: "I'm so terribly sorry. We desperately wanted to protect you but we couldn't.

"In the cold analysis of light, it wouldn't have mattered if we'd have had 200 units here, all that would have happened is we would have ended up with a whole lot of dead firefighters. I've been at this game for about 40 years and I haven't experienced anything like that, not even remotely like it."

Balog

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2009, 04:11:22 PM »
I felt sorry for the firefighter captain at the end. It must be terrible to dedicate your life to saving people then being helpless to stop something like this.

Also, given the arid conditions and highly flammable vegetation I'm amazed the .gov would oppose proper fire breaks.
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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2009, 04:53:48 PM »
I felt sorry for the firefighter captain at the end. It must be terrible to dedicate your life to saving people then being helpless to stop something like this.

Also, given the arid conditions and highly flammable vegetation I'm amazed the .gov would oppose proper fire breaks.

Dontcha know? It's more important to protect some icky sub-species of rat, than it is to cut proper firebreaks. Four legs good, two legs baaaaaad!
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Desertdog

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 04:56:40 PM »
Quote
Also, given the arid conditions and highly flammable vegetation I'm amazed the .gov would oppose proper fire breaks.

We have the same problem here in America.  Animals often has more rights than the people do.


Endangered Species Act Cleared Way for Calif. Fires

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:15 PM

By: E. Ralph Hostetter  Article Font Size  
http://www.newsmax.com/hostetter/california_fires/2007/10/31/45557.html


The Endangered Species Act of 1973 (ESA) has had unintended consequences that have proved a nightmare for many Americans who have had their properties seized, faced exorbitant fines, and in some cases given jail time, all in the name of protecting rodents and reptiles, principally.


We need only look to the wildfires raging in California at the present time as an example.

No doubt some of the homes still going up in flames are lost as a result of protection for an endangered species.


ESA regulations prevented homeowners from clearing highly flammable brush from around their homes in San Bernadino and San Diego counties. The very brush that brought the flames that destroyed their homes was the protected habitat of an endangered species, the kangaroo rat.


A well-intended action at the time, ostensibly to preserve and protect America's symbol of liberty, the bald eagle, it passed both Houses of Congress with overwhelming votes.


The Endangered Species Act of 1973 expired Oct. 1, 1992. However, Congress has continued to appropriate funds in each succeeding fiscal year to keep the program running.

It is beyond imagination that spineless Congressmen would perpetuate and fund an act that has brought so much grief and property loss to Americans.

Looking back to 1993, more than 27 homes were lost in a fire that burned through Winchester, in Riverside County. The loss of these homes was the result of the government placing the properties in habitat reserves set aside for the Stephens' kangaroo rat.

In spite of two attempts (2001 and 2002) to have legislation passed to permit homeowners to clear brush from around their homes, the rat habitat remained intact.

Ten years after the 1993 fire, a more disastrous fire occurred, taking 17 lives and destroying more than 2,700 homes.

Following the 2003 fire, a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) has been reached between five agencies sharing jurisdiction over "the abatement of flammable vegetation" (clearing of brush) from around homes in San Diego County, Calif.

The MOU mandatory fire protection measures . . . require fire breaks made by removing and clearing away flammable vegetation from 30 feet on each side of the structure to the property line, whichever is nearer. The director of Forestry and Fire Prevention (DFFP) may extend the fire break to distances of 100 feet under more severe conditions.

It would seem these "protective" measures for the home owner will offer little protection with Santa Ana winds of 70 mph and flames shooting over 50 feet in the air.

The protected domain of the kangaroo rat is still intact.

Don Fife, a southern California environmental geologist, details one of the most ridiculous examples of endangered species extremism in his description of the case of the San Bernardino County "Delhi Flower-Loving Sand Fly."

The county hired a scientist, according to Fife, to locate and study the endangered fly. The scientist reported that "during 43 hours of observation, I sighted eight flies, but I can't be sure if it was eight different flies, or the same fly seen eight times."

The flies were sighted on the footprint of the foundation of San Bernardino County's new medical center. The new medical center was forced to pay $10 million in environmental mitigation in order to complete construction.

Yet another confrontation involving the health, safety, and welfare of human beings with endangered species is taking place today in the area of Atlanta, Ga.

The Atlanta region has been suffering one of the worst droughts in its history.

The 3 million people in the Atlanta area depend on the 38,000-acre Lake Lanier for their water. Lake Lanier is estimated to have less than a 90-day supply of water at present.

The U.S. Corps of Engineers controls the normal water flow of some 5,000 cubic feet per second (CFS). Atlanta has been pleading with the Corps of Engineers to reduce the flow somewhat to protect its water supply. After passing numerous communities and two power plants, all of which require necessary amounts of water, the flow reaches the "three biggest road blocks to dropping the rate of flow."

Apparently taking precedence over all else, the biggest roadblocks — not the humans in Atlanta — are the "Fat three-ridge mussel, purple bank climber mussel, and the Gulf sturgeon, a fish." All three are “endangered species and carry a federal mandate that the water release rate be maintained, otherwise the mussels will die."

There is something inherently wrong with the mentality of individuals who would place the rights of rodents, aquatic life, and insects above the Constitutionally guaranteed right to life and property of citizens of the United States.

This is especially so when the lives and properties of Americans are deliberately placed in harm’s way as in the well-documented cases of wildfires where kangaroo rat habitats were mandated to extend in areas of brush to the very doorstep of houses in the area. Worse yet, occupants were forbidden to clear the brush, even to protect their lives and property.

It accomplished nothing for the rat.

He died in the flames of the very habitat that was extended to save him from extinction.


E. Ralph Hostetter, a prominent businessman and agricultural publisher, also is a national and local award-winning columnist. He welcomes comments by e-mail sent to eralphhostetter@yahoo.com.
 

longeyes

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2009, 12:17:16 PM »
That's one factor.  Another is illegal campfires set by vagrants and illegal immigrants.  A third is our budding anarchist movement.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2009, 12:35:19 PM »
That's one factor.  Another is illegal campfires set by vagrants and illegal immigrants.  A third is our budding anarchist movement.

The irony of the anarchist sorts is sadly amusing.

They don't realize that if they had actual anarchy, the people they're bothering would be free to simply take out a rifle and kill them all, with no repercussions. What are they going to do about it, call the po...Oh, right. Anarchy. No cops. So they're dead, and nobody cares.

Idiots.

I actually had a short argument with one that just shut them up.

"So you want no police?"

"F the police! People can protect their own stuff."

"So you're going to wear full helmet and armor with the trauma plates whenever you step outside the door to do anything?"

"...Why?"

"Because I have a scoped rifle, and I could shoot you from hundreds of yards away before you see me, then come take all your stuff, because I wanted it. It's anarchy. There's no cops to call it illegal or punish me."

They shut up. =)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 12:39:37 PM by Manedwolf »

MicroBalrog

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2009, 05:10:22 PM »
Goes to prove that you can find an idiot in any set of beliefs.

Of course, arguing with such people is about as sporting as a boxing match with Steven Hawking.
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41magsnub

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2009, 06:49:54 PM »
Goes to prove that you can find an idiot in any set of beliefs.

Of course, arguing with such people is about as sporting as a boxing match with Steven Hawking.
Unless they are too stupid to go down and you get tired of beating on them...

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2009, 11:30:24 AM »
get the anarchist to pontificate about how he wouldn't use the police. then take his leather jacket and say ok  now don't call the police.  leave with it.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MicroBalrog

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2009, 12:47:24 PM »
get the anarchist to pontificate about how he wouldn't use the police. then take his leather jacket and say ok  now don't call the police.  leave with it.

I suggest you try this on a biker-anarchist who carries.

Or better yet, a biker-anarchist who has his friends along with him.

I want to be there and tape it.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2009, 12:49:25 PM »
I suggest you try this on a biker-anarchist who carries.

Or better yet, a biker-anarchist who has his friends along with him.

I want to be there and tape it.

I think you've been watching too many movies.

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2009, 12:54:18 PM »
I suggest you try this on a biker-anarchist who carries.

Or better yet, a biker-anarchist who has his friends along with him.

I want to be there and tape it.
They have Bikers in Israel?  :O
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2009, 01:22:08 PM »
I think you've been watching too many movies.

Haven't there been a story like this recently? Some gay-bashers attacked a dude outside a gay bar, only to be stomped near-flat by the entire population of the bar.

Quote
They have Bikers in Israel?

Yes, yes we do. Not outlaw bikers, though, but more like really-wealthy Jewish dudes with leather outfits and tricked-out Harley bikes that cost upwards of $20,000 each, cruising Highway One without mufflers.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2009, 06:25:34 PM »
I suggest you try this on a biker-anarchist who carries.

Or better yet, a biker-anarchist who has his friends along with him.

I want to be there and tape it.

Biker-anarchists aren't the type who run their mouths off on how rebellious and hardcore they are, traching other peoples property for thrills and to impress their little girlfriends..

What is being discussed is the loud majority of self-described anarchists in the developed world who are idiot college-age punks with no life experience who like to talk a good game but have no useful skills or physical or mental toughness.

The idiots from the WTO riots and such.

Get them away from their fellow punks and they'd wet themselves when faced with a threat not bound by the law like cops are.

That goes for the "Rage Against The Machine" listening wanna-be self-described Marxists as well.
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Antibubba

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2009, 12:50:55 AM »
 
Quote
  The MOU mandatory fire protection measures . . . require fire breaks made by removing and clearing away flammable vegetation from 30 feet on each side of the structure to the property line, whichever is nearer. The director of Forestry and Fire Prevention (DFFP) may extend the fire break to distances of 100 feet under more severe conditions.

It would seem these "protective" measures for the home owner will offer little protection with Santa Ana winds of 70 mph and flames shooting over 50 feet in the air.

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the canyon.

Seriously, there wouldn't be a problem if the government would stop selling low-cost fire insurance to people who live on bone dry hillsides, and who, after every fire, insist on rebuilding their redwood and glass mansions exactly the same way they did before.  Hello!!  At least require a 10,000 gallon tank, generator-powered pumps, and fire-grade nozzles and fittings.  But that would spoil the esthetic qualities that inspired them to build there in the first place!  Bad feng-shui!!

Government does stupid things, no argument from me, but Congress doesn't bear all the blame here.
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Desertdog

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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2009, 02:00:04 AM »
In those high brush areas, as well as tornado areas, the houses should be made of reinforce concret and fireproof roofs, ,not necessary in tornado area, with no exposed wood. 


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Re: Angry survivors blame council 'green' policy for Austrailia fire spread.
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2009, 02:39:02 AM »
They don't realize that if they had actual anarchy, the people they're bothering would be free to simply take out a rifle and kill them all, with no repercussions. What are they going to do about it, call the po...Oh, right. Anarchy. No cops. So they're dead, and nobody cares.

I woke my dog laughing my posterior off at that.
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