United Airlines initiates self-immolation

[MechAg94]

I was thinking of an old Myth-busters program where they compared flying time to driving time for San Fran to LA I think and the comparison was within minutes of each other.  Driving sounds more and more like a better idea.       (within reason at least)

[MechAg94]

After all the news this weekend, it seems someone had an idea.  Not sure if it would be cheaper than cruise missiles as there would be no discounts or miles allowed.

[MechAg94]

[Jim147]

My dad had a plane when I was young and he had it down to an exact number on time vs driving.

Him and a coworker would leave work and one would heard for point b the other would head to the airport. Once there check the plane over do preflight wait for ground control and takeoff.

I don't remember the distance needed to be even but it was a ways out. I'll ask next week when I see him.

I guess the rich guys have the plane fired  up waiting for them to get off the chopper.

[MechAg94]

Over certain distances it doesn't make sense to drive, but stuff like this makes the distance people would be willing to drive a little longer. 

People were talking about a high speed train again in Texas recently.  I wonder how much of that discussion is fueled by hatred of air travel.

[MechAg94]

Fly the Friendly Skies!  Free Dental Work!

I guess it might be perfectly legal, but the jokes are just too easy and this guy ought to come out ahead in the end.

[Hawkmoon]

Over certain distances it doesn't make sense to drive, but stuff like this makes the distance people would be willing to drive a little longer. 

People were talking about a high speed train again in Texas recently.  I wonder how much of that discussion is fueled by hatred of air travel.

After the fiasco I endured with American Airlines on my way to AND FROM the SHOT Show in January, I told my colleagues that if the boss wants me to cover the show next year, I'll rent an econo-box from Enterprise and drive to Las Vegas. It'll take me three days, maybe four, but actual cash costs will probably be less than flying, and I'll be happier and healthier.

[RoadKingLarry]

After the fiasco I endured with American Airlines on my way to AND FROM the SHOT Show in January, I told my colleagues that if the boss wants me to cover the show next year, I'll rent an econo-box from Enterprise and drive to Las Vegas. It'll take me three days, maybe four, but actual cash costs will probably be less than flying, and I'll be happier and healthier.

Really do it on the cheap and make arrangements to couch surf at various APS member's fortified compounds along the way.

[RoadKingLarry]

Fly the Friendly Skies!  Free Dental Work!

I guess it might be perfectly legal, but the jokes are just too easy and this guy ought to come out ahead in the end.

Dr. looks Asian, obviously a hate crime.

[TommyGunn]

Fly the Friendly Skies!  Free Dental Work!

I guess it might be perfectly legal, but the jokes are just too easy and this guy ought to come out ahead in the end.

Is that an actual    photo of the Dr.?     I didn't  realize he'd  been injured to the point of being  bloodied!   Good grief....it's worse than I thought it was from the  video  I saw on Fox.


Yea~~~~~refering to earlier post:   it is like Negan was in charge!

[Scout26]

I seriously question that. What right do they have to get the police to force a paying passenger out of his seat, against his will? Seems that the police should also be paying very hard on this one, as well, since they were responding not to a security issue but a business practices issue.

It's right on the back of each ticket.


You have a choice.  You can do it our way or you can do it our way harder....

[MechAg94]

It's right on the back of each ticket.


You have a choice.  You can do it our way or you can do it our way harder....

Yeah, but normally they don't take you off the plane for that. 

[Scout26]

Yeah, but normally they don't take you off the plane for that. 

You can pretty much be removed for any or no reason as the airline sees fit. Yes, they have to compensate you for getting bumped (I disremember the $$$ amount), but if they say "Remove yourself from our plane", you better remove yourself.   It doesn't matter how bad you have to get to your destination.

Again.  Our way or our way harder.    Sorry Doc, you don't have any sympathy from me.  Next time listen.

[Blakenzy]

The way the airline operated is an affront to common decency. Remember common decency?

Any "bumping" should be done prior to seating, and never with threats of violence. Legal or not it was wrong. Offering a better compensation package to another less stubborn passanger would have probably made things go more smoothly.

What's next? Waiters making you spit out your food and kicking from you table because someone else needs to be prioritized? 

[Angel Eyes]

[K Frame]

OK, Neegan as Chicago Aviation Police is one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time.

[Fly320s]

The way the airline operated is an affront to common decency. Remember common decency?

Truth.  And decency works both ways.

Any "bumping" should be done prior to seating,

That makes things easier, but it doesn't always work out that way.  Nothing prohibits us from bumping pax who are already on the plane.

and never with threats of violence. Legal or not it was wrong.

There are only two ways to get people to do something: coercion or force.  Coercion didn't work.  Force was required.

Offering a better compensation package to another less stubborn passanger would have probably made things go more smoothly.

Compensation was offered to everyone.  No one accepted the offer.  The compensation was raised; no one accepted the offer.  Everyone was told that if no one volunteered to be bumped, then people would be selected to be bumped.  No one volunteered.  Someone was involuntarily bumped and asked to deplane.  He refused.  He was told to deplane.  He refused.  He was told to deplane by law enforcement.  He refused.  All coercion efforts had failed, the next step was to use force.  He was forced off the plane.

I don't know why UAL didn't raise the compensation offer, but they didn't and all the passengers were warned what could happen.  They all chose to take their chances and one guy lost.

[K Frame]

If you want to be treated with common decency, there's a $45 fee (each way) for that.

[wmenorr67]

I don't know why UAL didn't raise the compensation offer, but they didn't and all the passengers were warned what could happen.  They all chose to take their chances and one guy lost.

Just think that since they knew that they still had an overbooked flight why they even started the boarding process.  Been a lot easier to bump someone involuntarily before they are seated on the plane with a couple hundred more passengers.

[RevDisk]

Truth.  And decency works both ways.

That makes things easier, but it doesn't always work out that way.  Nothing prohibits us from bumping pax who are already on the plane.

There are only two ways to get people to do something: coercion or force.  Coercion didn't work.  Force was required.

Compensation was offered to everyone.  No one accepted the offer.  The compensation was raised; no one accepted the offer.  Everyone was told that if no one volunteered to be bumped, then people would be selected to be bumped.  No one volunteered.  Someone was involuntarily bumped and asked to deplane.  He refused.  He was told to deplane.  He refused.  He was told to deplane by law enforcement.  He refused.  All coercion efforts had failed, the next step was to use force.  He was forced off the plane.

I don't know why UAL didn't raise the compensation offer, but they didn't and all the passengers were warned what could happen.  They all chose to take their chances and one guy lost.

Good lord do normal people not want to hear logic, reason or whatnot. APS is pretty good about it compared to... well, just about everywhere.

At this point, people would react more calmly if United had intentionally ran the entire plane into a mountain.

[brimic]

If UA upped the bid one more time, I'm betting someone would have taken it.
Now they will spend millions trying to fix their image stemming from them trying to save a few hundred dollars.

[makattak]

I don't know why UAL didn't raise the compensation offer, but they didn't and all the passengers were warned what could happen.  They all chose to take their chances and one guy lost.

And here was where they made the mistake. From reporting, they offered $800 and it wasn't enough, so they stopped offering.

$800 was the line where they thought that forcing people from the flight was a better choice than offering more compensation.

Just how much is that choice going to cost them? I'm willing to bet it's going to be millions.

Now, not every time is that choice going to be THAT costly, but forcing people off the flight unwillingly is ALWAYS going to cost them more than the extra incentive.

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

This was monumentally a bad choice.

Incidentally, I'm on the side of the airline can kick anyone off for whatever reason (legally) that they want. But it had better be a REALLY good reason if you're going to do so because the consequences are dire.

(Note, I'm not certain that, legally, the doctor here has any recourse against the airline. But not paying out to him doesn't mean they don't pay. I'm pretty sure United is already paying for this choice. On the plus side, they're probably not going to have to worry about overbooked flights for a while.)

[makattak]

If UA upped the bid one more time, I'm betting someone would have taken it.
Now they will spend millions trying to fix their image stemming from them trying to save a few hundred dollars.

It's rather funny, because it appears the airline made the incentives for the crew revolve ONLY around those few hundred dollars.

I'm sure they'd have been docked for spending more than $800 on the bumping, so OF COURSE, from their view, it's now time for force. Because they aren't paid to think about the future of the airline, but to get that plane (and the spare crew, it seems) to Louisville, as cheaply and efficiently as possible.  Individuals respond to incentives and costs and the employees acted as though there were keenly aware of what the extra few hundred dollars would cost them. I'm willing to bet they'd have been reprimanded for offering too much.

The people in charge of them are the ones who ought to be thinking about the airline as a whole and should have aligned the crews incentives with that. They failed.

Fly320s, am I guessing right here?

[Fly320s]

Just think that since they knew that they still had an overbooked flight why they even started the boarding process.  Been a lot easier to bump someone involuntarily before they are seated on the plane with a couple hundred more passengers.

We don't know when UA noticed the flight was oversold.  It is possible that the deadheading crew was a last minute add on.  I've been in that situation myself several times and even had to bump paying passengers.  Poop happens.  And I have had passengers removed from flights after boarding due to oversold flights.  Again, poop happens.

Point of order: the flight was operated by a United Express code-share partner, not actually United Airlines.  In the videos, the plane appears to be a regional jet, such as a CRJ or Embraer, seating about 50 people, not hundreds.

[Fly320s]

If UA upped the bid one more time, I'm betting someone would have taken it.
Now they will spend millions trying to fix their image stemming from them trying to save a few hundred dollars.

You are probably right, but hindsight is 20/20. 

Do you have any idea how many people UAL or AA or Delta or the other airlines bump each year?  I'd guess in the low 1,000's range.  The only reason this bump is getting so much attention is because one passenger got a fat lip from a cop.  From a cop.  Not from UAL.  UAL will pay for this, big time, but the cops and the passenger are the ones to blame.