Author Topic: The Pot Place?  (Read 50889 times)

Balog

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2009, 09:14:39 PM »
Yeah, because making it illegal is working so well. Your problem is human nature, not weed.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2009, 09:15:34 PM »
nothin wrong with a cynic    one mans cynicism is anothers reality
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2009, 09:18:40 PM »
legalize it already. seriously.

and i will point out that i'd rather deal with a stoner then a drunk anyday.

and dm1333, apperently dealing with crime is gonna be a problem where your at regardless of the legel status of pot.

Quote
 I don't agree that legalization will make any of the crime problems in this county go away.

since when does any law/legel status make crime just go away? or does that magic wand the anti gunners are gonna use to make guns disappear work on pot too?
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

MechAg94

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2009, 09:26:55 PM »
Seeing arguments like this reminds me of the debate on the Rand Paul thread about wanting all the Libertarian platform now versus working at baby steps.  It seems obvious to me that not everyone is ready for it, and those people outnumber the those of you that want it now.   

For me, at a minimum, I would like to see that done at the Federal level.  Let the states do their own thing and see how it works out.
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Balog

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2009, 09:32:58 PM »
This whole thread is about a baby step.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

dm1333

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2009, 09:40:29 PM »
Quote
dm1333, apperently dealing with crime is gonna be a problem where your at regardless of the legel status of pot.


Since 1994 I've lived in 5 small towns, none of them larger than 16,000 people.  This one is the only one where there are gang problems and where you sometimes have to be careful about where you go and what you say.  It isn't a scientific study by any means but it is really obvious that the problem is pot.

Medical marijuana is legal here and unless you do something really stupid here you can grow, smoke and sell dope here without getting in trouble with the law.  Cops will not stop somebody from lighting up a joint on a street corner.  They won't ask you for your card.  If you follow the law about keeping a 6 foot tall fence that can't be seen through with locked gates they won't try to count your plants.  Pot for recreational use may not be legal here yet but in fact you can get away with recreational use as long as you don't grow huge amounts.  Yet we have all of these problems and crime associated with pot anyway.  

dm1333

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2009, 09:50:57 PM »
Quote
"We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose."[cite this quote] To this end, Libertarians want to reduce the size of government (eliminating many of its current functions entirely).

The funny thing is that I consider myself a bit of a libertarian.  The problem I see with pot here is that some peoples rights to live in whatever manner they choose is being intruded upon by people who grow or use. 

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2009, 09:51:40 PM »
 [popcorn]
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2009, 09:53:40 PM »
so how did the vote on measure b turn out?

seems crime rate in mendocino is a lil below average
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2009, 09:55:26 PM »
stories i read the cops have been busting folks  loosing cases but raiding em and cutting down the plants of folks with medical permission
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RaspberrySurprise

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2009, 10:02:20 PM »
The funny thing is that I consider myself a bit of a libertarian.  The problem I see with pot here is that some peoples rights to live in whatever manner they choose is being intruded upon by people who grow or use. 

And in doing so they are most likely breaking laws already on the books.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2009, 10:25:32 PM »
CD,

I'm talking about booze and cigarettes being smuggled from the US into Canada now.  The main reason for it to avoid paying taxes.  

Stop.  Right there.
The reason its smuggled is because the taxes on them are so damn high! 
Thanks for helping with my argument.

And in doing so they are most likely breaking laws already on the books.

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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2009, 10:53:27 PM »
As a side note, living on the border (I currently live in Sault Ste Marie) I've noticed that while it seems so many Canadians love their "free" health care they dodge taxes at the border in a way that would do a New Jersey mobster proud.
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dm1333

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2009, 11:10:20 PM »
Quote
Stop.  Right there.
The reason its smuggled is because the taxes on them are so damn high!  
Thanks for helping with my argument.

Which is part of my argument too!  There is talk of legalizing pot and taxing it to help get California out of debt.  The problem is that sales taxes vary by county and sometimes even city.  If pot is legalized state wide there will be tax fraud because people want to avoid taxes.  There will also be smuggling.  If it is legalized nation wide there will be the same kind of tax fraud and we will probably be exporting crime because pot will be going across the borders to Canada and Mexico.

I'm perfectly willing to admit the flaws in my argument.  There are no medical marijuana clinics near where I live.  I'm tying medical marijuana and illicit marijuana together.  I'll freely admit any other flaws you guys can point out.  

But I also live in a place where you could argue that pot is as legal as it gets in this country.  San Francisco might have a good claim on that dubious title.  The county here used to have a haz mat team that dealt with two things, crystal meth and pot.  I'm not sure if they still do because I've only been back here for about 5 months.  There is plenty of crime around the pot trade even though it has basically been decriminalized if the amount is less than about 30 pounds.  Just type in any combination of pot/marijuana/crime/mendocino into a search engine.  One of the big concerns for fire agencies out here are fires started by poorly wired grow lights, humidifiers and fans.  People steal electrical power for their grows.  I used to think that arresting people for smoking or growing dope was kind of stupid, even though I've never smoked it, until I moved here back in 2003.  This place has convinced me that legalizing pot for any use is a bad idea.

Balog

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2009, 11:18:51 PM »
So when you see alcoholic bums you want to bring Prohibition back, right? And when you hear a story about a gang banger killing a kid in a drive by shooting you want to ban guns, right? Cause if there's one thing history has proven, it's that banning something makes it magically disappear.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

dm1333

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2009, 11:37:44 PM »
Quote
so how did the vote on measure b turn out?

seems crime rate in mendocino is a lil below average

http://yesonb.blogspot.com/

You can read all about it.  I don't know much about Measure B since I was living in Michigan and thinking that I was never, ever going to live in Mendocion County again!  =D

As far as stories about cops raiding legal grows and cutting plants down since they know they wouldn't win in court?  Got a link?  I haven't read anything about that in anything like the Mattole Free Press or Greenfuse and haven't heard anything about it in town.  I think if it was happening on a regular basis I would have heard about it but I could be wrong.  I also think the cops would be getting sued if that was happening to people who had less than 25 plants or were caretakers for medical marijuana.

Quote
So when you see alcoholic bums you want to bring Prohibition back, right? And when you hear a story about a gang banger killing a kid in a drive by shooting you want to ban guns, right? Cause if there's one thing history has proven, it's that banning something makes it magically disappear.
 


Nope.  Medical marijuana is legal here.  If there was a low crime rate associated with medical marijuana I wouldn't have a problem with it.  The problem is that I think that this is a failed experiment and that the problems associated with that failed experiment intrude on non dope smokers lives.  I couldn't give you a link to an article talking about fraud and medical marijuana cards.  I only know that I hear people talking openly about how they asked a doctor for a card and got one even though they don't have cancer, glaucoma, arthritis, etc.  I also think that that two pounds of medical marijuana is a bit excessive.  I know people that have cards and have sold the pot they are growing instead of smoking it.  I avoid those people when possible but I can't stop them from coming up to me and asking if I want to buy pot.

Balog

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2009, 11:42:40 PM »
The problems you list occur just as much in places where pot is highly illegal and the laws are strictly enforced. Kinda like how DC and Chicago have lots of gun violence despite the bans, nicht wahr?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2009, 11:46:47 PM »
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/02/23/18572738.php


heres one link  another one is the former congress critters daughter who got raided then all charges dropped
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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dm1333

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2009, 12:29:27 AM »
Quote
heres one link  another one is the former congress critters daughter who got raided then all charges dropped


The problem I see with Laurel Krause is that according to the sheriffs website you can only have 12 plants.  She claims that the sheriffs website says you can have 25 plants, here is the link to the Mendo County website and the paragraph stating how many plants you can have.

http://www.mendocinosheriff.com/pdfs/2009-04-03-No1_JN.pdf

1. A qualified patient who presents a valid MMP identification card should
not be subject to arrest for possession, transportation, delivery or
cultivation so long as the amount of marijuana does not exceed 6 mature
or 12 immature marijuana plants and not more than 8 ounces of dried
marijuana.

 
 
 

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2009, 12:36:22 AM »
then there is this  same source  pay especial attention to the part near the end where it says folk are not to be arrested but served

1. Section 9.31.050 makes it a public nuisance to cultivate more than 25
marijuana plants on one legal parcel, regardless of whether the plants are
grown indoors or outdoors, or whether the person growing the plants is a
qualified patient or primary caregiver.
2. Section 9.31.070 states that the 25 plant per-parcel limitation applies
regardless of the number of qualified patients residing on the parcel. The
limitation also applies to marijuana cultivated or possessed by a primary
caregiver for multiple qualified patients.
3. Section 9.31.090 prohibits the cultivation of marijuana in any amount
within 1,000 feet of a youth oriented facility, school or park; any school
bus stop; or any church. The distance is measured from the boundary of
the parcel containing the marijuana to the boundary of the parcel
containing the designated facility.
4. Section 9.31.100 requires marijuana grown outside to be fully enclosed by
a fence at least six feet in height, with a lockable gate that is locked at all
times when the patient or caregiver is not in the immediate area.
B. Persons who violate Chapter 9.31 are not subject to arrest or criminal prosecution.
The County may abate a violation by pursuing civil prosecution or through the
uniform nuisance abatement procedures specified in Chapter 8.75 of the
Mendocino County Code. The enforcement process is as follows:
1. Complete a NOTICE AND ORDER TO ABATE.
2. Serve the Notice in the manner specified by MCC § 8.75.070:
2009-04-03-NO.1 April 3, 2009 Page 7 of 7
a. By certified mail, addressed to the owner, or his or her agent, at the
address shown on the last equalized assessment roll or as otherwise
known;
b. By certified mail addressed to anyone known to the deputy to be in
possession of the property at the street address of the property
being possessed; and
c. By posting such Notice and Order to Abate conspicuously in front
of the property on which, or in front of which, the nuisance exists,
or upon the portion of the property nearest to a street, highway, or
road, or most likely to give actual notice to the owner and any
person known by the deputy to be in possession of the property.
3. Complete a Sheriff’s Office incident report with a copy directed to the
Mendocino County Department of Planning & Building.
III. If you encounter a situation not covered in this directive, contact your supervisor.
THOMAS ALLMAN
SHERIFF-CORONER
Cc: File
MapDrive
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Balog

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2009, 12:47:34 AM »
I'm failing to see any arguments that banning it would accomplish anything.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

dm1333

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2009, 01:09:33 AM »
Well, without hearing what the po po has to say about that one we'll go with the assumption that she was wrongfully arrested. 

Here's a good one for ya!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a6l3tveUc0k4&refer=us

Quote
June 3 (Bloomberg) -- Dr. William Courtney says he has prescribed marijuana to more than 2,000 patients in Mendocino County, California, taking advantage of a measure passed eight years ago to decriminalize pot and allow the possession of as many as 25 plants.


This guy has an office in the town of Mendocino.  About 860 people live in the town of Mendocino.  The town to the south is Little River, population 150?  Fort Bragg, to the north, 6600 people.  That is a lot of people who have chronic pain for such a small area!  The drive over from Willits or Ukiah is pretty rough and since there are plenty of doctors in that area who can prescribe medical marijuana I don't see them making the drive over here just to see the doc.  It takes about 50 minutes to drive the 33 miles between Fort Bragg and Willits and if you are prone to car sickness you better take some dramamine.

KD5NRH

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2009, 01:19:43 AM »
how much booze got smuggled after prohibition ended?

More to the point, how many clandestine corn-growing operations are happening in the forests?


PTK

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2009, 02:12:59 AM »
dm1333

You have an awful of of "think" and "feel" in your arguments. Just wanted to point that out...
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MicroBalrog

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2009, 02:46:06 AM »
Guys, can you slow down a bit? I'm sorry to say I don't really understand some of the terms in this thread.

Is eight ounces of pot a lot? Is that a little? Wouldn't this depend on the quality of the pot in question? I had once tried to educated my self on this issue by reading the Grower's Bible, but it merely suggests that the different breeds vary very much in strength.
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