Republic vs. Democracy

[Don't care]

Thread header re-created.

[Gungnir]

 

Wow, what a condensation and oversimplification of Democratic vs. Republican government.

Could you give current examples of each type of Government so I can better understand what the manual means by the two terms?

Our military training manuals used to contain the correct definitions of Democracy and Republic. The following comes from Training Manual No. 2000-25 published by the War Department, November 30, 1928.

Which I would argue should automatically call the definitions into question, you might not want your military to consider it might be fighting on the wrong side. Also if I need a word definition I'd no more look at an Army training manual, than I would consult a landscape gardener about a strange rattle coming from my car engine.

I'm not trying to be confrontational on this, but the posting uses such broad strokes to try to say something that I am apparently missing.

[Standing Wolf]

Democracies always self-destruct when the non-productive majority realizes that it can vote itself handouts from the productive minority by electing the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury.

[sincerity] Well, yeah, but we need a big stimulus program because we're in the middle of a terrible awful horrible evil wicked financial crunch. [/sincerity]

[Balog]

Gungnir: I'm not sure what your point is, America was founded as a Constitutional Republic. That is not an opinion; read the founding documents, it was very clear how we were established. Further, one could consult the dictionary; a Republic is as different from a Democracy as a revolver is from an auto-loader.

Are you confusing Democracy and Republic with the respective political parties? They share names but are not the same thing.

[Gungnir]

Nope, not at all.

Republics and Democracies have existed since the Greeks. I just found that the descriptions were incredibly one dimensional, for example describing a vehicle as blue or green.

the US is a Constitutional Republic vs. Islamic Republic (Iran) vs. pure Republic (France) entirely different real government styles, and a constitution is not a requirement for a Republic (real i.e. the US Constitution or implied i.e. the Quran). Nor is a republic Rule by Law by definition but Republics select their head of state, and sometimes select other government officials.

Similarly Democratic governments, have different flavors too, Representative, Parliamentary, Constitutional, some have a Rule of Law some do not.

They're kind of orthogonal too, there can be democratic process in Republics (there also need not be), and Democratic Governments can install a head of state (President, Prime Minister etc.) as well as having self governing regions. In fact what was defined in Greece as democracy would not currently be defined as democratic, since not everyone voted, and those that did, depending on their status had more or less weight to their vote.

Finally, just because a government calls itself one thing does not mean that it it that thing. For example, the German Democratic Republic (Old East Germany) was neither Democratic, nor Republican.

Now if the post had begun as Republicanism vs. Majority Rule I would have had a better understanding.

Maybe I missed the point.

[Don't care]

.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Similarly Democratic governments, have different flavors too, Representative, Parliamentary, Constitutional, some have a Rule of Law some do not.

You, uh, might want to rethink or rephrase this.  Perhaps check the meaning of the terms you used here.  

[txgho1911]

The republic parts of the government are no longer distinguishable from a democracy. In our gov the electoral college is the last obvious piece of the republic.

Tired of living in interesting times.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

All those representatives we select to govern us don't matter?

[Gungnir]

Ok...

From Websters

Republic
   1.

• A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
• A nation that has such a political order.

   2.

• A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
• A nation that has such a political order.

   3. often Republic A specific republican government of a nation: the Fourth Republic of France.
   4. An autonomous or partially autonomous political and territorial unit belonging to a sovereign federation.
   5. A group of people working as equals in the same sphere or field: the republic of letters.

Democracy
   1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
   2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
   3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
   4. Majority rule.
   5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

And yes I did check my terms, Representative Democracy (North America, Western Europe), Parliamentary Democracy (UK, Spain, Australia etc.), Constitutional Democracy (US, France, etc.), Consensus Democracy (Belguim, Switzerland...)

I could point to point on both Democracy, or Republic and add "not necessarily" to both lists (I still hold they're apples to oranges comparisons is the is the US a Republic or a Democracy?). All government systems are flawed, they're constructs of people, who are themselves flawed, and populated by politicians who are perhaps the most flawed.

I'm with Ayn Rand on Government anyway; it's there solely to protect personal freedoms and property, and should stay out everything else.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

It seems even the dictionary has forgotten what the difference is between a democracy and a republic.

That's sad, but I suppose it's not surprising.

[Gungnir]

Is there some piece of data that I'm missing since I was educated in the UK; although I did do a Political Science (an oxymoron if ever there was one) semester at University.

In its most basic form a Republic does not have a Hereditary Monarch as its leader. I don't think that's changed in 2600 years.

Could someone clue me in on what you think a republic is?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

In a true republic a group of representatives are chosen to govern.  Laws are passed by the representatives, not by the people. 

A constitutional republic is a specific type of republic where the representatives' power is limited by law (the constitution).

In a democracy the people govern directly.  They pass laws themselves.  There is no need for a congress or parliament in a democracy.

If representatives are the ones passing laws, then it's a republic and not a democracy.  Hence terms like "representative democracy" or "parliamentary democracy" are oxymorons.

Most people don't know or respect the difference between a republic and a democracy any more.  The two terms are frequently confused and misused.  If I was cynical I'd say this is deliberate.  It's a lot harder to violate individual rights in a constitutional republic than it is in a democracy.

[Gungnir]

Aha...

Divided by a common language :)

True democracy (Majority rule) vs. Implied Constitutional Republic.

So I think vis a vis the original thread I was accurate

Republic vs. Democracy is equvalent to Republicanism (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/republicanism/) vs. Majority Rule