Author Topic: its just city money  (Read 5758 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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its just city money
« on: May 03, 2010, 05:30:14 PM »
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20100503__SHAMEFUL__PRESSURE_.html
Did DHS pressure teen to get abortion?

By REGINA MEDINA
Philadelphia Daily News

medinar@phillynews.com 215-854-5985

A DEPARTMENT OF Human Services caseworker pressured a pregnant Mayfair teenager to undergo a late-term abortion by threatening to take away either her toddler or her unborn baby if she had the child, according to the teen's foster mother.

The alleged strong-arm tactic happened one day after DHS learned of the pregnancy, when the girl was about 22 weeks pregnant, according to her foster mother and the girl's social worker, Marisol Rivera.

The foster mother did not want to be identified in order to protect the girl's identity.

The Daily News also learned that:

* DHS got a Family Court judge's order allowing it to take the girl for an abortion, after the girl's birth mother refused to approve the procedure.

* By the time DHS arranged for the abortion - in March - the girl was 24 weeks pregnant. She had to undergo the procedure in New Jersey because abortions in Pennsylvania are illegal at 24 weeks.

* Although it is DHS policy that a DHS worker accompany any minor who has a court-ordered medical procedure, this did not happen on the girl's first attempt to have the abortion. That attempt failed when the clinic wouldn't accept her Medicaid card and wanted cash, according to the foster mother. A DHS worker did accompany the girl on a later, successful, attempt.

* Rivera, the girl's social worker, said that she was fired by Concilio, which subcontracted with DHS to provide care, after she initially refused to accompany the teen for the abortion.

"They hired me to work in child protection, not to kill children," Rivera told the Daily News.

DHS officials said that they could not discuss the case because of medical-privacy laws. Attempts to talk to the teenager were unsuccessful.

But a source familiar with the case insisted that the girl was not coerced and that her foster mother, whose first language is Spanish, did not understand the conversation between the girl and the DHS worker, Cynthia Brown.

Brown declined to comment.

Abortions are a little-known aspect of DHS's oversight of children in its custody.

Donald F. Schwarz, the city's deputy mayor for Health and Opportunity, who oversees DHS, said that the agency "is supposed to take a neutral position and not supposed to be involved in the decision making" regarding an abortion.

Between September 2006 and March 31, Schwarz said, 335 minors under DHS care became pregnant. Of those, 119 resulted in abortions. Of those abortions, 54 were done by judge's order.

Eight of the abortions were performed out of state, Schwarz said.

Although federal and state law forbid the use of federal or state money for abortions, and DHS is a recipient of state and federal aid, that money is not used to pay for abortions, Schwarz said.

He said that money only from the city budget is used to pay for the procedures.

Art Caplan, director of the Center of Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, said that if the foster mother's allegations are true, the DHS worker was acting unethically.

"You can't or shouldn't be threatening to break up a family depending upon whether somebody gets an abortion or not," Caplan said. "That is . . . unethical practice, it's not even common sense."
Did DHS pressure teen to get abortion?

Richard Wexler, executive director of the National Coalition for Child Protection Reform, said: "If DHS's behavior is as described, it is shameful and inexcusable. . . . Sadly, this is not surprising . . . . This kind of bungling, this is not unusual in child-welfare systems. Especially in Philadelphia."

 
Short-lived joy

 

The pregnant teen was excited about having the baby, her foster mother said. She learned that she was carrying a boy and told her 1-year-old daughter that she was going to have a little brother. She even talked about a name for the baby.

The teen's birth mother, who wanted to be identified only as Deborah M., also said that her daughter was excited to have a baby.

"Someone who went to go get an ultrasound, [found] out it's a boy, they give the boy a name, that's somebody who wants to have that baby," Deborah M. said. "But the next thing I know, she's going for the abortion."

The teen's foster mother - who is fluent in Spanish and understands basic English - said that she was present when DHS worker Brown discussed the pregnancy with the teen in the living room of her home.

The conversation occurred the day after the girl's ultrasound, the foster mother said.

She said that Brown told the pregnant teenager that DHS would separate her children if she had the second child.

"She said that if she decided to have the infant she wasn't going to let her have both babies, that I know [despite the language barrier]," the foster mother said. "They wouldn't be together."

During the conversation, Brown was "upset" and "agitated," the foster mother said, and the teen began to cry.

In an interview conducted in Spanish, the foster mother said that she had been listening to the two from the top of the stairs, but rushed down when the teen began crying.

She asked Brown, "Is there a problem?"

"Of course, there is a problem," the foster mother said Brown told her. "This girl is 16 years old, she's in school, she already has a baby. Yes, there is a problem."

By the next day, the teen was determined to get an abortion, the foster mother said.

Rivera, the girl's social worker, said, "Ever since DHS went there [to the foster home], the only alternative that she saw was abortion."

Deborah M., the girl's birth mother, said that she believed the foster mother's allegations because she'd witnessed Brown bullying her daughter once before.

Brown had discovered that the teen had not been taking her child to day care.

Brown, she said, rushed up close to the teen's face and said, "If you don't put your baby in day care, I'm gonna take your baby."

Deborah M. said that she then ordered Brown out of her home, and that she left.
Caring for pregnancies

 

Schwarz said that when DHS is alerted to a child's pregnancy, "the youth and her caseworker discuss the [youth's] plans regarding her pregnancy."

DHS offers counseling, family planning and other pregnancy-related services such as prenatal care, abortion and adoption, he said.

Rivera said that when she telephoned Brown with news that the teen was pregnant, the DHS worker was "shocked."

"Oh, my God, but that girl has to study," Rivera recalled Brown saying.

The teen's birth mother and the foster mother said that they separately heard conversations between Brown and the teen where the word "abortion" was mentioned.

Both said that they heard no mention of other alternatives, they told the Daily News.

Rivera said that after the teen's confrontation with Brown, she counseled the girl about her pregnancy, including alternatives such as adoption.

Rivera said that she and Concilio's Family Services Supervisor, Zenaida Maravi, told the teen that she could keep both children if she carried the pregnancy to term.

The teen remained silent to their comments, Rivera said.

 
Getting the abortion

 

On March 10, the day after DHS secured the court order for the abortion, Concilio supervisor Maravi told the teen's foster mother that she must take the girl to an abortion clinic. The foster mother, who arranged for a relative to drive them, said that she was reluctant to go, believing that the girl was too far along for the procedure.

But when they arrived at the clinic, which the foster mother could not identify, it would not accept the teen's Medicaid card as payment, the foster mother said.

Six days later, on March 16, Brown, the DHS caseworker, took the teen to the Cherry Hill Women's Center without alerting the pregnant teen's foster mother or Rivera, the women said.

Rivera and the foster mother believed the clinic performed an abortion. A common procedure for late-term abortions is dilation and extraction. The procedure usually takes two or three days. On the first day, doctors inject a substance into the fetus to stop its heart as well and begin the dilation process. The woman typically goes home and returns the next day so that the fetus can be extracted.

The pregnant teen had left for school late that morning, out of character for the girl, the foster mother said. By 7 p.m., the teenager hadn't arrived home and the foster mother called Rivera in a panic. The social worker told her to call police by 10 p.m. if she wasn't home by then.

The girl arrived home around 8:30 p.m.

"What happened?" the foster mother asked her.
"The baby is dead," the teen answered. The teen told her that Brown had taken her out of school to get an abortion in New Jersey.

The next day, Concilio provided a van to take the girl back to the clinic for the second day of the procedure, according to Rivera.

Rivera initially refused to accompany the teen, but when she learned that the first step of the procedure had already been performed, she relented.

"That baby had to be taken out of her," Rivera said. "It couldn't stay in there much longer. It was against my will, but I had no other option. Instead of one dying, two were going to die [if the procedure was not completed]."

 
Rivera is fired

 

Rivera said that when she initially refused to take the teen to the clinic, Maravi, her supervisor,threatened to fire her for insubordination.

Rivera wrote a memo to Concilio's human-relations director complaining about the threat.

She was fired on April 14 for "deficiencies in your job performance" in a letter signed by Joanna Otero-Cruz, Concilio's executive director.

Rivera says she believes that she was fired for complaining about her supervisor's threat.

"The decision to terminate the life of the child had been made by another, I had nothing to do with it," Rivera told the Daily News. "I told [Maravi] that my religious beliefs, my moral beliefs would not allow me to participate in an action like this one. And at no moment when Concilio hired me did they tell me that I would participate in that."

Rivera and other Concilio employees said that the agency seemed wary of involvement in the teen's late-term abortion.

At a March 12 meeting of Concilio's foster-care staff, Maravi told the group, "Concilio will not become involved in that situation. DHS will resolve it," Rivera said.

But the following week, two Concilio employees and a Concilio van were used to take the teen to the abortion clinic.

Maravi said she could not discuss the case. Otero-Cruz did not return a phone call.


how do they get away with taking her outa state for a procedure banned in pa?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Balog

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 05:49:05 PM »
Abortion, also known as the one invasive medical procedure the state is all too happy to circumvent parental rights for.  Ever notice how all the "pro-choice" folks always seem to assume the only valid choice is abortion?

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2010, 05:54:21 PM »
indeed i do.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Tallpine

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2010, 07:10:01 PM »
horrifying  :O
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2010, 07:10:45 PM »
i read it once then a second time not wanting to believe it
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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AZRedhawk44

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 07:17:22 PM »
Quote
Between September 2006 and March 31, Schwarz said, 335 minors under DHS care became pregnant. Of those, 119 resulted in abortions. Of those abortions, 54 were done by judge's order.

Saywhichwhat?

How can a judge ORDER an abortion for a teen?

I would imagine that the teen would be opposed to an abortion for such an issue to reach the attention of a judge, and that someone (the legal guardian) would contradict the teen's position and force the issue to court (the only valid party able to do such would be DHS).

So, roughly 30% of DHS pregnancies result in abortions.  Of that 30%, roughly half of them are done forcibly against the teen's wishes.

And DHS...

Quote
"is supposed to take a neutral position and not supposed to be involved in the decision making" regarding an abortion.

Yeah, right.

Court order FOR an abortion is taking a neutral position?

I'd LOVE to see the logic chain behind that stance.
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mellestad

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 07:33:52 PM »
Saywhichwhat?

How can a judge ORDER an abortion for a teen?

I would imagine that the teen would be opposed to an abortion for such an issue to reach the attention of a judge, and that someone (the legal guardian) would contradict the teen's position and force the issue to court (the only valid party able to do such would be DHS).

So, roughly 30% of DHS pregnancies result in abortions.  Of that 30%, roughly half of them are done forcibly against the teen's wishes.

And DHS...

Yeah, right.

Court order FOR an abortion is taking a neutral position?

I'd LOVE to see the logic chain behind that stance.

I'm rather curious to see if that can be confirmed or explained.  I've never heard of court ordered abortions before.  But my bovine poop-o-meter is going crazy.
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I dug around for a while and could find no evidence of this actually happening.  This is something left and right would both be furious about, so I'm thinking there is some level of B.S. to that claim, or at least a severe case of misquote or foot-in-mouth.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 07:42:14 PM »
look harder  catholic charities has been to court over it in va
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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mellestad

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 07:48:44 PM »
look harder  catholic charities has been to court over it in va

Catholic charities are suing someone because a judge forced a healthy person to undergo an abortion?

Can you find a link for me?  My Google-foo is weak.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 08:16:48 PM »
lift weights
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Perd Hapley

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 08:20:47 PM »
This is something left and right would both be furious about...

The left endorses the murder of small children.  What makes you think they would care about "choice"?  Because they say so? 
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 08:45:58 PM »
It's horrifying, sure.  But is anyone really surprised?  This is a natural result of leftism/statism run amok. 

eyebrows

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 08:46:41 PM »
Come on. If a judge ordered a forced abortion it'd be a big f'ing deal. No way they are talking about 54 forced abortions.
Most likely these were cases where kids wanted to have an abortion but the parents/guardians did not. So the judge rules that DHS can give the kid an abortion against the parents wishes. It's not right, not by a long shot but I bet it's not like some of you are thinking.

sanglant

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 08:53:44 PM »
i say abort the 54 judges. :mad: if they ordered more than one, all but kill 'em once each day till there paid up. >:D put it on tv to warn other judges. [popcorn]

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2010, 08:55:11 PM »
there only needs to be one for it to be wrong
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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mellestad

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2010, 09:45:02 PM »
If this were happening, I'd be writing letters and getting my sharpie out for picket signs, and so would everyone else on both sides. 

I am assuming, from the lack of actual evidence outside of this single article, it means no-one has been able to find any proof for this claim.

Carry on.

CNYCacher

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2010, 09:54:02 PM »
Come on. If a judge ordered a forced abortion it'd be a big f'ing deal. No way they are talking about 54 forced abortions.
Most likely these were cases where kids wanted to have an abortion but the parents/guardians did not. So the judge rules that DHS can give the kid an abortion against the parents wishes. It's not right, not by a long shot but I bet it's not like some of you are thinking.

This HAS to be the explanation
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2010, 09:57:23 PM »
The reports are that the kid consented to the abortion under duress. 

Does that make it all better?

mellestad

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2010, 10:08:19 PM »
The reports are that the kid consented to the abortion under duress. 

Does that make it all better?

We are talking about two issues. 

One issue is the claim that an individual was pressured by a social worker to get an abortion, or lose her government check.  The person who is doing the tell-all was recently fired.

The other issues is the claim that a judge ordered abortions against the will of a healthy person.

Both claims are, at this point, unsubstantiated.  The first claim is at least plausible.  The second claim is probably the craziest thing I've heard this year, literally.  It isn't legal and it doesn't match the goals or methods of anyone, left right or center.  If that actually happened, as simply as it is stated, the backlash would be...huge.

The fact that no other source exists for either of these claims (and certainly no investigation!) means a rational person would slow down before going on a rant.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2010, 10:12:57 PM »
it doesn't match the goals or methods of anyone,

gotta get you outa the house more   what kinda area you live in? raised in? more interested in demographic than geographic
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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mellestad

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2010, 10:15:17 PM »
it doesn't match the goals or methods of anyone,

gotta get you outa the house more   what kinda area you live in? raised in? more interested in demographic than geographic

Ok, I'll bite.  What mainstream political organization wants forced abortions?

S. Williamson

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2010, 10:45:44 PM »
Ok, I'll bite.  What mainstream political organization wants forced abortions?
Umm... try here.  :angel:

And Eyebrows nailed it.  For crying out loud, people, use some logic before you get all uppity.  =D
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BridgeRunner

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2010, 10:47:48 PM »
It's not too hard to figure out how this happens.  If a child is in foster care, she is the ward of the court.  The judge effectively has parental authority. 

So, do we still want to insist that children aka people under 18 have no rights?

S. Williamson

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2010, 10:49:51 PM »
Not going there... you and I already know we disagree with each other.
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"The chances of finding out what's really going on are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
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BridgeRunner

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Re: its just city money
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2010, 10:55:55 PM »
Ok, we can totally ignore the 800 pound gorilla.  I don't mind.