Author Topic: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town  (Read 4157 times)

MillCreek

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Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« on: October 21, 2012, 12:29:23 PM »
http://gawker.com/5953357/missouri-pastors-fiery-speech-against-equal-rights-for-homosexuals-has-stunning-twist-ending

A conservative Missouri pastor's fiery argument against gay rights.  Be sure to watch to the end of the video.
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Strings

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2012, 05:56:35 PM »
Oh, snap!
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2012, 10:13:12 PM »
On behalf of my fellow Missourians, I would like to apologize for his buffoonery.
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ArfinGreebly

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 12:45:11 AM »

Summary for the video challenged?
"Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 01:03:15 AM »
Summary for the video challenged?


I didn't watch the whole thing - just skipped to the end. The kicker at the end is that he says his whole speech was borrowed from racial segregationists; he just changed a few words around. He thought he was making some very profound point, you see.
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vaskidmark

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 05:44:57 PM »
That was no unintentional error of bringing the wrong notes.  He knew exactly what he was doing - listen to his closing comments - "Let's not make the same mistake."
 
The guy is sharp - got to give him credit for that.  It looks like 50% of the prior posters got hooked by him.  I'll bet a much larger proportion of the audience there got hooked by him as well.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 06:33:10 PM »
The guy is sharp


Citation needed. It's a good gimmick, I guess, but not especially insightful or original.
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Strings

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2012, 07:14:43 PM »
It IS insightful when the only changes he made to the segregationist arguments was to substitute "gay rights" for "ending segregation". We've done similar things on here for any number of issues.

Not going into whether or not "gay rights" should be allowed, encouraged, or what have you. I've told people supposedly on "my side" to go away when they use similar arguments for things I agree with...
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SADShooter

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2012, 07:15:25 PM »
I would have said slick rather than sharp. His delivery was smooth. Beyond that...I more or less agree with fistful. :O [tinfoil]
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RevDisk

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2012, 07:49:48 PM »

Eh, thought that comparison has been around for a while?  I have not yet seen the video, but yes, sounds about right. Plenty of folks felt denying civil rights on the basis of skin color was backed on religious ground. Not saying said religions do or don't, but you can justify anything if you selectively quote enough. I am not pointing at anyone in particular, just saying that has occurred since the dawn of religion. I'm just curious why folks need to codify their beliefs in law. I am curious to hear reasonable arguments to the contrary.


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Strings

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2012, 07:54:44 PM »
^^this^^

Sad thing is, it isn't any one religion: pretty sure I can find Buddhist teachings that could be twisted to prove that Chinese aren't really human, if I really wanted...
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

Perd Hapley

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2012, 08:11:52 PM »
I'm just curious why folks need to codify their beliefs in law.


That's what a law is supposed to be - a codified belief. As you pointed out in another thread, it's either that or self-interest.
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Fjolnirsson

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2012, 08:15:39 PM »
In my youth, I was a fool, having been indoctrinated well by the CA socialistic schools. I often remarked to myself, upon finding things not to my liking, "there ought to be a law". As I began supporting myself, trying to gain wants and needs, I slowly came to realize that all I really wanted was to be left alone, in order to pursue my own happiness. I realized perhaps I should shut my young, uneducated mouth and leave others alone, meanwhile attempting to learn the things I should have been taught in school. I have a really hard time these days getting all et up inside about what other people do in their private lives, so long as it doesn't affect my own. On the topic of where people put their private parts, I am especially uninterested. It has as much bearing on my marriage as the mating rituals of the yellow haired yak.
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CNYCacher

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2012, 08:53:17 PM »
 ???

He failed entirely to make a point.  I mean, if he had actually been an anti-gay pastor and he had used those words and got caught borrowing from segregationist speeches, then there would be a story here.  But all he did was set himself up as a giant straw man.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2012, 09:08:10 PM »
???

He failed entirely to make a point.  I mean, if he had actually been an anti-gay pastor and he had used those words and got caught borrowing from segregationist speeches, then there would be a story here.  But all he did was set himself up as a giant straw man.


You don't understand. See, because some people were denied their rights in the past, anyone claiming to be denied their rights now is bound to be correct.
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RevDisk

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2012, 12:01:27 AM »

You don't understand. See, because some people were denied their rights in the past, anyone claiming to be denied their rights now is bound to be correct.

No, but the burden of proof should be on anyone wanting to restrict any civil liberty via government intervention. And it should be a very, very high standard.

"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2012, 12:47:12 AM »
Something higher than simply equating skin color with sexual orientation, hopefully.
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Strings

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2012, 03:43:20 AM »
And certainly higher than "I don't like X people, therefor X people shouldn't have full legal rights"
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MechAg94

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2012, 09:46:52 AM »
And certainly higher than "I don't like X people, therefor X people shouldn't have full legal rights"
That's the rub isn't it?  We aren't talking about the govt preventing anyone from doing something.  We are talking about whether the govt should official recognize it for whatever reason.  Not the same thing. 
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red headed stranger

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2012, 10:34:21 AM »
I'm just curious why folks need to codify their beliefs in law. I am curious to hear reasonable arguments to the contrary.

I think it is an unfortunate outgrowth of most peoples views on the role of government.  People make a judgment on an issue, an then they immediately want the government to either ban, regulate, or subsidize accordingly.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2012, 01:53:53 PM »
And certainly higher than "I don't like X people, therefor X people shouldn't have full legal rights"

I thought we were talking about religion, not personal feelings. ???
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2012, 01:55:43 PM »
I think it is an unfortunate outgrowth of most peoples views on the role of government.  People make a judgment on an issue, an then they immediately want the government to either ban, regulate, or subsidize accordingly.

But not in this case.

Did anyone else, besides MechAg, actually happen to catch what they were voting on?
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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2012, 05:13:29 PM »
That's the rub isn't it?  We aren't talking about the govt preventing anyone from doing something.  We are talking about whether the govt should official recognize it for whatever reason.  Not the same thing. 
If they recognize it for the starbelly sneeches why not the ones without stars?
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MechAg94

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2012, 05:57:45 PM »
But not in this case.

Did anyone else, besides MechAg, actually happen to catch what they were voting on?
Well, I actually didn't.   =D   But "homosexual rights" stuff these days is rarely about homosexuals not being able to do something everyone else does.  It is usually about getting special recognition or special protection over and above what everyone else has.
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Strings

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Re: Fire and brimstone will rain down upon a Missouri town
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2012, 12:20:13 AM »
That IS a big problem.

Wasn't all that long ago that "homosexual rights" was about nothing more than equal treatment: they wanted to have the same protections for their long-term relationships that heterosexual couples do. Going that far, I have no trouble with: fair is fair, and a committed relationship is a committed relationship*

Unfortunately, today it seems that anyone involved in an "X rights movement" is NOT looking for equality, but preference. "Hate crimes" would be a really good example of this, although there are others...

*this is not something I'm going to argue: I have stated my belief. YMMV
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What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)