Become a deadbeat, because solidarity and social justice

[lee n. field]

I would be happy to forgive their student loans.

Do it along the lines of the old National Defense Student Loan program - year for year forgiveness if you got the loans for education in specified fields and then worked in those fields.  Or 33% forgiveness if you worked in certain specified public service (not necessarily public sector) jobs like building houses on reservations or being a career test dummy for specified medical issues.

I'd open it up to low-level no-tech public infrastructure jobs. like tearing down blighted housing, painting schools, litter patrols.  Maybe 10% for each full work year (2000 hours completed within 52 consecutive weeks).

The beauty of this plan, besides getting them out from under those oppressive loans at oppressive rates that they voluntarily contracted for, is that it gives them work experience they can use when eventually applying for a "real" job.  ("Yes, sir!  I know how to show up for work on time, and how to follow instructions, and how to get along with other people without being a [expletive deleted]bird that gums up the ability to meet the objectives.)

Long live the 99%!  Because they will need to live a long time to pay off those debts.

stay safe.

<shrug>

My Dad spent 2 years in the Army, for having gone to a land grant college.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

You'd think all the law firms would be out of business by now, given the high standards of honesty and old timey handshake deals described in this post.

Breach of contract (including loan contracts) happens all the time for business reasons.  It's just that it only becomes a moral issue when consumers do it.  

If only the banks took such a moral approach to managing consumer accounts!

True enough, the legal profession is one where dirty dealing and dishonesty rule the day.  Where people will do anything they can get away with, no second thoughts.  You know the situation is jacked when you start to agree with your attorney that going to court is a good idea, or that fighting things out with the lawyers might improve matters.

Best legal advice I've ever received is that when you get to that point, it's too late.  You've already lost.  The only winners in those situations are the lawyers.

Anyway...

Our society only works when the people play nice.  The governments and the courts cannot enforce order on us, it is wholly unequipped for that.  Only we can order ourselves.  If we all tried to cheat our way through life the system would collapse.  

The great success of America is that we mostly all play by the rules, and we do it voluntarily.  

Moral judgment against dishonest dealing goes a long way towards propping things up.  You guys shouldn't be so cavalier about dismissing bad behavior just because it comes from individuals.  Even if we stipulate that day-to-day business people misbehave whenever possible (they don't), that doesn't excuse the misbehavior of these students.

If you want to take a moral stand against business, and be taken seriously, you can't ignore what these students are doing.

[roo_ster]

Our society only works when the people play nice.  The governments and the courts cannot enforce order on us, it is wholly unequipped for that.  Only we can order ourselves.  If we all tried to cheat our way through life the system would collapse.  

The great success of America is that we mostly all play by the rules, and we do it voluntarily.  

Moral judgment against dishonest dealing goes a long way towards propping things up.  You guys shouldn't be so cavalier about dismissing bad behavior just because it comes from individuals.

This requires a common culture with common assumptions.  We no longer have that, but instead immiscible sub-cultures that do not trust members of the others.  Fix the problem of diversity and you'll go a long way to increasing mutual trust and perceived mutual obligation.

We now have a multi-ethnic/multi-cultural empire that is held together more and more by law/force and not by culture.  While in the past, busting a contract was seen as a moral failing, now it is a cost/benefit calculation.  Along with many other choices that used to have a moral component.

Wish it were otherwise, but this is the current reality in which we live.

[Scout26]

If I join the SJW's do I get my student loan repayments back?  Along with 20+ years of interest on that money?

(I also repaid the ex-'s loans, I'd be looking to get that back also....with interest.)


A check will be fine.

[Firethorn]

If I join the SJW's do I get my student loan repayments back?  Along with 20+ years of interest on that money?

I hate to ruin a good rant but the SJW loans aren't being written off, they're threatening to go into default IF the loans of a bunch of students whose college shut down in the middle of the semester aren't written off.  Which kind of sucks for those that were going to said school on a cash basis, but it's my understanding that they are an extreme minority for that college.

Indeed, it's unlikely that they can get so much as a transcript out of the ex-college, and other colleges are quite likely to look askance at any credits from that school.  Ergo, they're more or less screwed.

I mean, let's say you paid to have a custom gun made, the company you hired to do it declares bankruptcy and hands you a half finished stock?  Wouldn't you want a refund?  Let's say you paid via credit card, and it's still within the dispute period.  Would you dispute the charges?

The SJW crowd are rabble rousing like they normally do.  But they do have some point this time.

[Scout26]

I mean, let's say you paid to have a custom gun made, the company you hired to do it declares bankruptcy and hands you a half finished stock?  Wouldn't you want a refund?  Let's say you paid via credit card, and it's still within the dispute period.  Would you dispute the charges?

The SJW crowd are rabble rousing like they normally do.  But they do have some point this time.

Actually, no you wouldn't get a refund.  Be thankful you got your gun back, because technically it's their property (you transferred it to them, remember?)  Also, as far as getting a refund, you can add you name to the (long) list of creditors, and maybe, just maybe when all is said and done you might just might get a few cents.


<<<<<------worked for a company that went BK.  Was promised a "Stay-on bonus" to help close down the warehouse buy selling (checks made out to the clerk of the bankruptcy court) and shipping everything off.  Last person I fired was me.  A little over 2.5 years later I got a check for roughly 8% of my final month's pay and a "bonus" of 2% of what was promised.

You might be able to dispute the charges, but since the CC company can't chargeback the vendor, you are back to square one.

And no.  The SJW's don't have a point.  You made a bad decision, you chose a bad college.  Suck it up Buttercup.  .Gov is not there to kiss your Boo-boo-owie, and take one for your team.  Life's hard.  It's harder when you are stupid.  

[Scout26]

And apparently being stupid pays off again:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersandeducation/why-the-federal-government-is-forgiving-millions-of-dollars-of-student-loans/ar-BBkQQFe?ocid=ansvox11


Yep, no moral hazard or precedent set there, no siree..


 

[roo_ster]

The uss moral hazard left the dock decades ago.  First time i heard the term was during clintons bailout of mexico so the financiers in nyc would not lose their shirts.

Moral hazard is a real thing but we are no longer a moral people and are not swayed by such arguments.

[Firethorn]

Actually, no you wouldn't get a refund.  Be thankful you got your gun back, because technically it's their property (you transferred it to them, remember?)

You didn't get a gun back.  You got a half finished stock.  You were buying the custom gun new.

As for the CC company, I asked if you would try, which you didn't answer.  I didn't ask whether you'd succeed.

The point is, you'd try for the most money you could.  Right? 

And no.  The SJW's don't have a point.  You made a bad decision, you chose a bad college.  Suck it up Buttercup.  .Gov is not there to kiss your Boo-boo-owie, and take one for your team.  Life's hard.  It's harder when you are stupid.  

They don't?  They won it.

As for the bad college - consider that it's not like they're not still losing out.  They still have the time they invested gone.  Any payments they already made.  Any other expenses.

Scout's link even shows how they're doing it legally.  The schools committed fraud and the feds didn't do their job(quickly enough) to head it off, and proceed to help enable it.

Both sides more or less taking a wash - the government financially, the students by time wasted, is probably the best of a bad situation.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If government could magic away lost time and effort I'm sure the entitled little brats would have demanded that, too.

[Scout26]

RE: "Committed Fraud"

Ahhhh, yes because only the for profit schools do that.  The State colleges and Non-profit ones would never, ever, ever, inflate their graduation and placement rates.

 

And re-reading your Gun analogy.  Chances are you wouldn't get dick.  No money, not even the "Gun" or bits thereof, you'd paid for.  You get in line with all the the other creditors (ranked by amount owed.  BTW the top three get to determine the division of any remaining assets to include cash, so you're pretty far down the food chain and you'll be lucky to get a letter from the court saying "Thanks for Playing, but you get Bupkis.")

And the CC company is going to tell you there's nothing they can do as it's been more then X days after you paid your bill to start a dispute, and besides they are out of business and can't respond to our request for info, plus they filed BK and we're not wading into/waiting for the mess to clear up.  Go get 'em yourself Tiger.

So yes, I would try but I also know that it's very, very long odds on getting anything, having BTDT.



And I will re-iterate:  NO ONE MADE THEM CHOOSE THESE SCHOOLS, NO ONE MADE THEM TAKE OUT STUDENT LOANS.  HENCE, THE STUDENTS AND ONLY THE STUDENTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LOANS.

It is generally understood that you give certain schools money, go to some classes (including the on-line ones) and then after the appropriate amount of time passes you get a sheet of paper saying "I ARE A _________.".  I even saw an billboard the other day promising that you could earn a Bachelor of Science in Nursing, ALL ON-LINE !!!!   Really, a profession that is pretty much devoted to being with and helping treat ailing people without spending anytime, you know, WITH PEOPLE?!?!?!  Who are they crappin'??

If you sign-up with one of those schools, then you know you aren't getting even a middle-tier education.  They signed on the bottom line (probably several).  Sucks to be them.

And Uncle Sugar is NOT supposed to clean the mess you've made of your own life.  Especially with the taxpayers money. 

[Firethorn]

No, it's not just the for profit schools.  But the amount of lying involved is the difference between new car and used car salesmen.  The used car folks just try so much harder...

The other way I look at it is that the state is going to end up paying for it one way or another - it's not the middle class types typically going to these institutions.

So if they try to enforce the loans:
1.  They're going to go into default anyways.
2.  Between welfare, hospitals, crime, and everything else, they'll end up paying anyways.

Personally, I'd just get the feds out of the loan business.  Those who issue loans have to take some of the risk on themselves.