Author Topic: I ax youse, is dis necessary?  (Read 4354 times)

vaskidmark

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I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« on: November 24, 2013, 01:24:55 AM »
http://dailybruin.com/2013/11/20/students-defend-professor-after-sit-in-over-racial-climate/

Quote
Current and former students in the Graduate School of Education & Information Studies expressed their support for professor emeritus Val Rust following a demonstration in one of his graduate classes last Thursday.
Student demonstrators alleged that there is a “toxic” racial climate in the graduate school, including in Rust’s classroom. Organizers told the Daily Bruin last week that they decided to host the demonstration after a recent report examining racial discrimination among the university’s faculty stated that UCLA’s policies and procedures do not sufficiently address racially motivated instances of discrimination.

After Thursday’s sit-in, several current and former students said they did not believe there was a problem with racial discrimination in Rust’s class.

UDPATED at 1 a.m.: In a letter sent to colleagues in the department after the sit-in, Rust said students in the demonstration described grammar and spelling corrections he made on their dissertation proposals as a form of "micro-aggression." [emphasis added]

"I have attempted to be rather thorough on the papers and am particularly concerned that they do a good job with their bibliographies and citations, and these students apparently don't feel that is appropriate," Rust said in the letter.....

Sweet shivering Shiva on a velvet-lined pogo stick!  Where is my clue bat?

Back in the day (when the lava was still cooling and I dodged T.Rex on the 18 mile trudge uphill through the 6-foot deep snow to get to the schoolhouse, there was an expectation that even if you did not speak Standard American English (flat Midwestern accent) you at least wrote Standard American English according to Strunk & Wagnalls, the ALA, or the NYT style book, and wrote footnotes (not endnotes) in either MLA or APA style.

I am not completely convinced that the "you be too white" syndrome is the only thing at play here, but the odor does seem to be present.  I have not read any references being made to "Ebonics" which may be the only saving grace in this tempest in a tea mug (bigger than a tea cup but certainly smaller and less powerful than roiling the seas).

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Perd Hapley

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 07:41:11 AM »
One might point out that barely literate is not a race, but that would probably be as effective as saying that Hussein is not a race, or that fake birth certificate is not a race.
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vaskidmark

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 08:21:52 AM »
One might point out that barely literate is not a race, but that would probably be as effective as saying that Hussein is not a race, or that fake birth certificate is not a race.

QFT.

The former future ex was handed back many papers in grad school with comments to the effect she was functionally illiterate.  Following much negotiation she was allowed to hire an editor (grad student seeking additional ramen noodle funds).  Yes, she knew her stuff, but could not put it down on paper worth dry spit.  Thankfully she never had to submit/present anything written that was longer than two simple sentences.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

MechAg94

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 08:59:57 AM »
QFT.

The former future ex was handed back many papers in grad school with comments to the effect she was functionally illiterate.  Following much negotiation she was allowed to hire an editor (grad student seeking additional ramen noodle funds).  Yes, she knew her stuff, but could not put it down on paper worth dry spit.  Thankfully she never had to submit/present anything written that was longer than two simple sentences.

stay safe.
I have heard of a number of people who hired editors or typists to clean up their papers.  Of course, these people recognized they had a problem and took action. 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2013, 09:06:20 AM »
some years back student that one DC law school protested at the bar exam was culturally biased. his members of their class could not pass the same exam. mind you it's only the stupid one school

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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SADShooter

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2013, 09:26:40 AM »
I'm coming to the conclusion that all this screeching about "micro-aggression"  ;/ is eventually going to provoke a whole lot of "macro-aggression", and people are going to learn what REAL discrimination and oppression feel like.

Our experiment in democracy is devolving into a proof of tyranny in a way the Founders would have found inconceivable.
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Viking

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2013, 09:40:35 AM »
Grammar, logic and science are tools designed by the Patriarchial Shitlords to oppress minorities.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 10:10:48 AM by Viking »
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Hawkmoon

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2013, 11:45:42 AM »
The problem is universal. Just yesterday I exchanged several e-mails with my wife's cousin, who (for reasons understood only by himself) is a professor at a large university in Mexico. I was chiding him about how much I envy his language skills (he's fluent in at least six -- including Greek and Manadrin Chinese). He responded by commenting that his Mexican students can't write, spell or punctuate in their native language. I then mentioned how difficult I find it to translate e-mails from my (adult) stepson in [a South American country], in part because he uses "ke" in place of "que." El profesor responded that this is a "barbarism" (his word, not mine) peculiar to the TXT MSG generation in [that South American country].

We agreed that the Internet and TXT MSGing will be the death of literacy world-wide (if it has not already caused the demise of literacy world-wide).
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dm1333

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2013, 11:57:12 AM »
I have heard of a number of people who hired editors or typists to clean up their papers.  Of course, these people recognized they had a problem and took action. 

I hired a guy named Bill Gates.  He isn't always right but he underlines a lot of my stuff with red, green or blue squiggly lines to let me know something is wrong.

Ben

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2013, 12:14:54 PM »
I hired a guy named Bill Gates.  He isn't always right but he underlines a lot of my stuff with red, green or blue squiggly lines to let me know something is wrong.

I actually blame spell and grammar check on much of the loss of llanguage skills. I, like most people, use it myself. However, it makes me complacent on the proofreading thing, and I sometimes feel like my writing skills are slipping as compared to where they were pre-computer. I still spel prety gud, but I don't spend time looking to see if, while not paying attention, I used "there" for "their" or "it" for "it's".

I usually don't care if I do that here for instance, as it gives the APS grammar nazis something to do. I hate when I rely on it too much at work though, and send emails out with those mistakes. I'm really good about proofreading reports for errors like that, but bad about doing it with emails.

I agree that texting and Twitter will be the death of standard English (and probably many other languages as well).
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2013, 01:00:39 PM »
some years back student that one DC law school protested at the bar exam was culturally biased. his members of their class could not pass the same exam. mind you it's only the stupid one school

damn phone

I don't understand a word of that.

 =D
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2013, 01:07:43 PM »
I actually blame spell and grammar check on much of the loss of llanguage skills. I, like most people, use it myself. However, it makes me complacent on the proofreading thing, and I sometimes feel like my writing skills are slipping as compared to where they were pre-computer. I still spel prety gud, but I don't spend time looking to see if, while not paying attention, I used "there" for "their" or "it" for "it's".

I usually don't care if I do that here for instance, as it gives the APS grammar nazis something to do. I hate when I rely on it too much at work though, and send emails out with those mistakes. I'm really good about proofreading reports for errors like that, but bad about doing it with emails.

I agree that texting and Twitter will be the death of standard English (and probably many other languages as well).

When I was doing a little more "professional" correspondence by email I would turn off the spell check during composition then run it on my completed rant essay. My goal was no hits.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MillCreek

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2013, 01:19:37 PM »
The electronic medical records systems generally have no spelling or grammar checks.  Some of the mis-spellings that I read in the charts are hilarious.
_____________
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MillCreek
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Hawkmoon

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2013, 04:26:27 PM »
I actually blame spell and grammar check on much of the loss of llanguage skills. I, like most people, use it myself. However, it makes me complacent on the proofreading thing, and I sometimes feel like my writing skills are slipping as compared to where they were pre-computer. I still spel prety gud, but I don't spend time looking to see if, while not paying attention, I used "there" for "their" or "it" for "it's".

One of the casualties of the Internet generation is understanding the difference between the plural form of a noun as opposed to the possessive. It seems as though virtually everyone on the Internet now seems to believe that single nouns are made plural by adding an apostrophe followed by an 'ess.' Thus, we see references to car's, truck's, tool's, gun's ... all referring to plural nouns (or should that be "noun's"?) ... and the authors [author's?] don't have a clue that they're [their?] screwing up. And woe be unto anyone who has the temerity to try to explain it to them!
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agricola

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2013, 04:32:19 PM »
One of the casualties of the Internet generation is understanding the difference between the plural form of a noun as opposed to the possessive. It seems as though virtually everyone on the Internet now seems to believe that single nouns are made plural by adding an apostrophe followed by an 'ess.' Thus, we see references to car's, truck's, tool's, gun's ... all referring to plural nouns (or should that be "noun's"?) ... and the authors [author's?] don't have a clue that they're [their?] screwing up. And woe be unto anyone who has the temerity to try to explain it to them!

Language usually mutates over time anyway, and something as profound as the internet and social media will probably have a huge effect on what ends up being grammatically correct over the next fifty years.

As for the OP, I dont mean to disparage anyone who took part in the protest - but surely if you are a grad student at UCLA, you dont really have that many problems?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2013, 04:35:46 PM »
As for the OP, I dont mean to disparage anyone who took part in the protest - but surely if you are a grad student at UCLA, you dont really have that many problems?


White people problems.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2013, 05:27:09 PM »
One of the casualties of the Internet generation is understanding the difference between the plural form of a noun as opposed to the possessive. It seems as though virtually everyone on the Internet now seems to believe that single nouns are made plural by adding an apostrophe followed by an 'ess.' Thus, we see references to car's, truck's, tool's, gun's ... all referring to plural nouns (or should that be "noun's"?) ... and the authors [author's?] don't have a clue that they're [their?] screwing up. And woe be unto anyone who has the temerity to try to explain it to them!


I disagree. Texting and the internet have revived written communication that was once lost to the telegraph, telephone, radio, etc. If any technology confused people about plurals and possessives, it was the latter kind.

Maybe the plural and possessive confusion has been there all along, but you just see it more, now that everyone comments (in writing) about everything.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2013, 06:04:07 PM »
I don't understand a word of that.

 =D

sorry  voice text

here
some years back students at one DC law school protested that the bar exam was culturally biased. as members of their class could not pass the bar exam. mind you it's only the  one school  that had the trouble
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

AJ Dual

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2013, 09:45:18 PM »

I disagree. Texting and the internet have revived written communication that was once lost to the telegraph, telephone, radio, etc. If any technology confused people about plurals and possessives, it was the latter kind.

Maybe the plural and possessive confusion has been there all along, but you just see it more, now that everyone comments (in writing) about everything.

Excellent point.

I would think that the Internet and electronics have probably done as much to improve literacy, grammar, and spelling as they have done to damage it.  And there's probably a healthy bias effect that we're simply exposed to more of it.

I've been looking at a lot of Civil War, and even WWI and WWII correspondence and it's rife with grammatical and spelling errors too. However, it sort of gets a mental pass from most people as being "quaint".
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Firethorn

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Re: I ax youse, is dis necessary?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2013, 11:49:19 PM »
I actually blame spell and grammar check on much of the loss of llanguage skills. I, like most people, use it myself. However, it makes me complacent on the proofreading thing, and I sometimes feel like my writing skills are slipping as compared to where they were pre-computer.

At least in my case, my parents and I would disagree.  The immediacy of the feedback of spellcheck(even when it still had to be run manually) actually improved my spelling. 

I would think that the Internet and electronics have probably done as much to improve literacy, grammar, and spelling as they have done to damage it.  And there's probably a healthy bias effect that we're simply exposed to more of it.

Selection bias, very good point.  Rose tinted glasses and all that.

Quote
I've been looking at a lot of Civil War, and even WWI and WWII correspondence and it's rife with grammatical and spelling errors too. However, it sort of gets a mental pass from most people as being "quaint".

I've seen the same as well, even in newspapers.  And that's after accounting for language shift.  With the really ancient languages things can get even weirder - things like them not bothering to write vowels down. 

The printing press and cheap paper reduced the cost of additional letters, so vowels and such could be inserted for little cost, bringing written language closer to spoken.  Indeed, we're as regular as we are though the persasive effects of cheap media, universal compulsory education and the multi-century efforts of people like Webster. 

With the spread of smart phone messaging though, I predict a shift towards language that's easy to type in and have autocorrect 'fix'.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 11:57:24 PM by Firethorn »