Author Topic: How's this for truly radical feminism?  (Read 7879 times)

Preacherman

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« on: October 22, 2005, 07:20:50 PM »
The mind boggles...

From the Times, London (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1838453,00.html):

October 23, 2005

Feminists trip up on man tax

Matthew Campbell

SPARE a thought for Swedish feminists whose newly formed party is disintegrating after hardliners presented a manifesto advocating a man tax, the abolition of marriage and the creation of gender-neutral names.

Sweden already boasts one of the highest levels of female participation in the workplace and some observers questioned the need for a feminist party in a country whose women account for half the seats in parliament.

When it was founded six months ago, polls showed that a quarter of voters would consider supporting Feminist Initiative in elections next year because of rising domestic violence against women and higher salaries for men.

That goodwill seems to have faded after the partys recent founding congress, however, when radicals such as Tiina Rosenberg, a professor of gender studies, appeared to have secured control of the agenda. The resulting platform included proposals for abolishing marriage and changing the law to let people who undergo sex change operations legally alter their names.

The party called also for the creation of more gender-neutral names such as Robin or Norva that could apply to a boy or a girl. At present parents must choose names from an official list for boys or girls.

Rosenberg resigned from the governing board after complaining of an anti-feminist backlash and insulting personal attacks in the Swedish media, where she was ridiculed as part of the lunatic left.

Gudrun Schyman, another founding member of the party, came to her defence last week. The reason for this campaign against her is that shes a lesbian, she said. The attacks against her are homophobic.

A former Swedish Communist party leader and author of erotic verse, Schyman once demonstrated her sense of fun by posing naked for a newspaper behind a red umbrella. But conservative male politicians do not find her amusing.

She advocates what she calls a man tax to cover the cost of violence against women in the home but has stopped short of endorsing the opinions of Ireen von Wachenfeldt, who until recently ran one of Swedens largest state shelters for battered women. In a recent television documentary called The Gender War, she proclaimed: Men are animals.

The documentary noted that the shelter had printed excerpts of an extremist American feminist manifesto called Scum, which stands for the Society for Cutting Up Men. In it, women are urged to destroy the male sex and seize the chance made possible by science of giving birth only to females.

The spectacle of militant feminism reaching into Swedens official institutions provoked a political scandal in which Wachenfeldt was forced to resign from her job at the shelter.

Since then the traditional Swedish belief in the need for organising politics, business and even ones private life to make it as sexually equal as possible seems to have come under threat. In new opinion polls only 1.3% of voters said they would vote for the feminist party.
Let's put the fun back in dysfunctional!

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natedog

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2005, 08:25:24 PM »
Hm. I'm not entirely surprised at Europe's dramatically decreasing birth rate, and subsequent (native) population decay.

Guest

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2005, 09:34:33 PM »
Great. Now I'm going to post an example of Christian extremism and we can all laugh about how stupid those Christians are because obviously, if its posted, it must be accurate and all encompassing.

Right?

Or possibly there's some purpose here that I'm missing?

The Rabbi

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2005, 11:38:54 PM »
Tax Catholic clergy!


(I'm just kidding)
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SalukiFan

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2005, 01:59:36 AM »
I think Barbara has a good point.  While most logical people would understand this was a good example that every movement has its extremist loonies, others might say that this is representative or the logical end of feminism.

Interestingly though, if you read the article, not everything they are proposing in their platform is totally insane.  

Parents have to pick their child's name from a state approved list?  Blech!  

If they aren't going to abolish the practice altogether, I guess adding more gender-neutal names isn't that crazy of an idea.  Likewise, I can't think of a compelling reason why the state should be able to tell people who've had sex changes they have to keep the name they were born with.  

As far as the abolition of marriage goes, there have been folks with libertarian leanings on APS who've argued for it.  I doubt that a government could really abolish marriage anyway - they could just get rid of the federal, state and local regulations and benefits associated with marriage.  

Most likely, some other party will co-opt her party's stances on the name issues, dump the ridiculous "man-tax" and the abolitionist stance on marriage and the Feminist party will be forgotten by the next election.

Your woman for all seasons, including political season,

SalukiFan

Preacherman

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2005, 05:00:04 AM »
Err, Barbara:

1.  No insult to feminism in general was intended - that's why the title of the thread referred to "truly radical" feminism.  I'm all in favor of a healthy feminism - and a healthy masculinism, for that matter.

2.  
Quote
Now I'm going to post an example of Christian extremism and we can all laugh about how stupid those Christians are
OK - and I'll be the first to enjoy a good laugh!  Christians, as any other group, can be highly "lampoonable" at times.  I've even posted such topics here, to some concern from other Christians, as you may recall (pasta, anyone?).  Poking fun at sacred cows is a worthy pastime, IMHO.

3.  I'm afraid I simply can't take any group (or individual) seriously when they advocate such whacko positions as those outlined in the article.  I don't care whether they're male or female, young or old, liberal or conservative, etc. - anyone trying to foist such nastiness on me and mine will receive my open contempt and fervent opposition (and, if they gain any position of power, my outright disobedience!).
Let's put the fun back in dysfunctional!

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Typhoon

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2005, 08:02:15 AM »
Heh.  Man tax.  I actually gave some thought to that concept a few times, but concluded that the tax should be on women who cannot control their men!  After all, ladies, we really do know who has the power, dont we?  Time to start exercising it!  (Mostly kidding&.or not&)

I rather like Preachermans posts.  He has an uncanny knack for ferreting out some interesting information, doesnt he?  

Extremist views.  They are out there and need to be addressed.   More so than ever.  With the proliferation of information these days, it is critical that a balanced perspective needs to surface.  And along with it, a huge dose of common sense.  

Andrea
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SalukiFan

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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2005, 08:29:27 AM »
I agree that I enjoy Preacherman's posts.  You have a good sense of humor (besides the bad puns Wink) Preacherman and I know that you are equal opportunity when it comes to lampooning people.  

It's not really Preacherman that I'm worried about, it's the "yeah, me too, feminists are all man-haters" types that often use examples like this to reinforce their, ahem, one-dimensional view of feminism.  I suspect, although I can't speak for her myself that Barbara would say the same.  

It's kind of like if I was on a feminist forum and someone put up an article about pro-gun folks that line the perimeters of their rural compounds with claymores to blow up the JBTs when they come for them.  I think most of us here would groan and just hope that no one used it as a launching point to criticize all people that support RKBA.  

So far though, it looks like everyone is being totally civil and taking the article in the spirit it was posted.  Ahhh, I love APS...

Guest

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2005, 09:56:55 AM »
Yep, that and I'm a grouchy morning person.  Smiley

It wasn't the article itself, Peter. I was just waiting for it to turn into yet another thread about the pussification of the world.

Of course those people are kooks, but no more represent me than Timothy McVeigh represents me as an anti-government type.

matis

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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2005, 10:16:53 AM »
Barbara said:
I was just waiting for it to turn into yet another thread about the pussification of the world.
_______________________________________________________________

You mean, it's NOT being pussified, pussificated, whatever...?







JUST KIDDING, only foolin' around, just kidding, honest...!



matis
Si vis pacem; para bellum.

El Tejon

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2005, 11:10:04 AM »
Man tax=men having to pay for everything on a date!:D

I've been paying that tax since I was 16.  It will never be repealed.
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Standing Wolf

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« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2005, 11:26:46 AM »
Quote
Men are animals.
So? So are women. So are cats. So are dogs. So are mice. So are bugs. Now, what?
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Guest

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« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2005, 12:34:21 PM »
If I go out with someone, it's on mutual terms. That's one of my limits. I'm not for sale or rent.

jefnvk

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2005, 01:46:33 PM »
Quote
Men are animals.
That is a point of view.  From my point of view, women are the cruel, manipulative animals.

I wonder how well a 'black-tax' to pay for gang-related violence would go over, or a 'Muslim-tax' to pay for the WOT would go over?
I still say 'Give Detroit to Canada'

Guest

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2005, 01:56:52 PM »
Great. You're as much of an extremist as she is, then.

Justin

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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2005, 02:42:39 PM »
Quote
In a recent television documentary called The Gender War, she proclaimed: Men are animals.
Grrrr, baby.

Rowr.
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Preacherman

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2005, 03:17:14 PM »
cheesy @ Justin...
Let's put the fun back in dysfunctional!

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Stand_watie

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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2005, 04:18:29 PM »
Quote from: Justin
Quote
In a recent television documentary called The Gender War, she proclaimed: Men are animals.
Grrrr, baby.

Rowr.
I agree with standing wolf, so are women. Actually when referencing the evil that mankind (and womankind) does that's an insult to animals. Then again there haven't been any Einstiens or Mother Theresa's in the (non human) animal kingdom, so I suppose it cuts both ways.

Actually it's ironic that she should choose such an inapt allegory that relagates power, dominance and violence to the (non-human) animal kingdom when they are even more behaviorally divided by sex than humans.
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Sylvilagus Aquaticus

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2005, 04:56:49 PM »
IIRC, Sweden legislated away urinals in public men's rooms and had, at one time, introduced legislation to compel men to no longer stand but sit while performing that biological function.   I've heard that, as a culture, it has been the practice in toilet training males for the past decade or so.



but..but...but....what about being outdoors...and in deep snow?

I can't write my name like THAT!



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Morgan

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2005, 05:17:06 PM »
Quote
At present parents must choose names from an official list for boys or girls.
WTF?

matis

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« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2005, 05:40:49 PM »
Sylvilagus Aquaticus said:
I've heard that, as a culture, it has been the practice in toilet training males for the past decade or so.
_____________________________________________________________

Right!  I read this, too.  And with enough training maybe they'll get their men to start menstrating.



Sorry, but to me, the liberal mindset is a form of mental illness.



matis
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matis

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2005, 05:46:53 PM »
Barbara said:
If I go out with someone, it's on mutual terms. That's one of my limits. I'm not for sale or rent.
_________________________________________________________



OK, Alright.  We understand.


But tell me, Barbara, what about options?




matis


(What the heck?  I'm not afraid.  Nobody lives forever, anyway.  Right?
Si vis pacem; para bellum.

jefnvk

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2005, 08:36:14 PM »
Quote
Great. You're as much of an extremist as she is, then.
The whole post was supposed to be sarcastic.

But even if that were so, I am not forming a political party based on that belief.  She is.

As for the list of names, it makes halfway sense to me.  I'd be pissed if my parents named me something like Granola, or Sunshine, or Fragrence, or Lemonjelo (as I believe was posted in the weird names thread).  Names like that make me think that the parents think of their kids more as pets than anything else.
I still say 'Give Detroit to Canada'

Typhoon

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2005, 08:50:47 PM »
Wait!  You have a problem with being named Apple?

What's wrong with you?  (Thanks, Mom for the family names.  Quite happy with those...)
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Guest

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How's this for truly radical feminism?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2005, 11:29:42 PM »
Oh, there are options, but probably not in the sense you're thinking. Cheesy