Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Balog on October 15, 2014, 02:53:28 PM
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http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/my-fellow-americans-its-time-to-boycott-college/
Yes, he includes a caveat for doctors/engineers etc who actually benefit from a college education.
If you’re not familiar with it, a college degree is a thing that we tell our kids to buy with money they don’t have, in hopes that it will help them make money they might earn, which will give them the ability to pay back the money they spent in order to make the money they’re paying it back with.
Now, is there any conceivable reason why you need an additional four years of formal education to effectively oversee a team of iPad salesmen?
Can anyone seriously argue that spending 48 months on a college campus better prepares you for a retail environment than spending 7 years in a retail environment?
Yet, still, proponents and propagators of our modern attitude towards higher education will point out that college graduates from any major earn a better income than the average person without a degree. Actually needed or not, they say, it makes no difference. It’s needed according to the rules of the game, and we all have to play the game even if nobody knows why we’re playing it.
Companies want to see that college degree. Sensible or completely and totally insane, it doesn’t matter. Eventually elementary school janitors will need a doctorate in Vomit Cleanup. That’s just the way it is, we’re told.
Outside of a few specific professions, your ability to succeed in the vast majority of occupational fields should not depend on your liberal arts degree. Should not. But it does, because that’s how it is. Why is it this way? Because. Just because.
Throughout the past several decades, our country has developed a system. That system, I’m informed, requires virtually every 18-year-old to purchase a 70 thousand dollar education and spend four years playing beer pong in their friend’s off campus apartment, before entering the working world without any practical experience doing anything productive or valuable. We give out massive loans to kids who don’t have jobs, let alone financial assets of any kind, and celebrate while millions of young people begin their adult lives drowning in a river of booze and debt.
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I already did. Boycotted high school as well. Boycotted the corporate world too. Has not done too much harm AFAIK. =D
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I had this problem when I was looking for some intel jobs coming back from my deployments. Everyone wanted a degree and didn't care about all the experience I had doing the work. They rather have someone with a 4 year degree and no experience than someone with some college and 10 plus years doing the damn job, to include the security clearance they wouldn't have to pay for.
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Congress needs to pass a law making it legal again for employers to test applicants for intelligence and/or employment-specific skills without being sued into oblivion or prosecuted by race-hustlers in the DOJ.
The inability of employers to give a simple 30-120min test means employers make applicants show them that applicants have a minimum level of intelligence and persistence by means of a college degree. Black-robed tyrants, congresscritters, malicious bureaucritters, and race-hustlers have inflicted a burden of 4+ years, tens of thousands of dollars, and untold opportunity costs on students / job applicants in lieu of a $5-$100 cost to the employer. Because non-asian minorities did poorly on the tests before race-agitators and lawyers swooped in to save them from the racist, mean, exam-proctoring employers.
Of course, instead of NAMs spending two hours of their time figuring out they are not optimally suited for a particular job, we make them spend four years grinding away at semi-useless majors and saddle them with $50K+ of debt to learn the same thing. This is considered compassionate and progressive and anti-racist. Not sure how much more of such loving tenderness NAMs can shoulder without reverting to a system of indentured servitude.
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Congress needs to pass a law making it legal again for employers to test applicants for intelligence and/or employment-specific skills without being sued into oblivion or prosecuted by race-hustlers in the DOJ.
The inability of employers to give a simple 30-120min test means employers make applicants show them that applicants have a minimum level of intelligence and persistence by means of a college degree. Black-robed tyrants, congresscritters, malicious bureaucritters, and race-hustlers have inflicted a burden of 4+ years, tens of thousands of dollars, and untold opportunity costs on students / job applicants in lieu of a $5-$100 cost to the employer. Because non-asian minorities did poorly on the tests before race-agitators and lawyers swooped in to save them from the racist, mean, exam-proctoring employers.
Of course, instead of NAMs spending two hours of their time figuring out they are not optimally suited for a particular job, we make them spend four years grinding away at semi-useless majors and saddle them with $50K+ of debt to learn the same thing. This is considered compassionate and progressive and anti-racist. Not sure how much more of such loving tenderness NAMs can shoulder without reverting to a system of indentured servitude.
Makes you wonder if any bribing lobbying got done there...
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I thought intelligence tests were not legal but skills tests were if administered universally to all applicants?
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I thought intelligence tests were not legal but skills tests were if administered universally to all applicants?
Ask FDNY about that. GWB's boy Alberto Gonzalez tore into them like a buzz saw due to "disparate impact." "Compassionate" conservatism at its best.
Here we go:
http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/094-14/mayor-de-blasio-administration-settles-fdny-racial-discrimination-lawsuit-the-vulcan-society
The de Blasio Administration today announced an agreement to settle the 2007 Vulcan Society’s lawsuit against the City of New York over two civil service exams found to be discriminatory against African American and Hispanic applicants. The City has agreed to pay approximately $98 million in backpay and benefits to African American and Hispanic firefighter applicants who took two civil service exams in 1999 and 2002, and will implement additional reforms in the FDNY’s recruiting policies in an effort to further diversify the ranks of the organization to make them more representative of the city’s population.
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Our local conservative talk radio host ranted about this yesterday...
Up here in the industrial North, there are a lot of high paying skilled trade jobs, but noone with the skills to fill the jobs.
We have a glut of kid with BA degrees in womyn's/victimhood studies and high 5-figure/low 6 figure debts that work in low paying jobs, who could have spent 1/2 the time and 1/4 the money in school and started at $25/hr.
One caller said that in his region, there were 7-8 people taking on electrical apprenticeships for every 40-50 electricians who retired every year.
If I were to start over, it would be plumbing, electrical, machining, or welding. (I'm not cut out for masonry- done plenty of it, hate it).
I know several people who have their own plumbing (2 in my family, 1 in wife's family), Hvac (1 in my family), masonry (2 in my wife's family) businesses, and none of them are hurting for money or work.
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I can weld and run machine tools, as well as car and ship mechanic, hold HVAC certs for mobile and buildings, as well as electrical work up to 480VAC. The only reason I make as little as I do right now is I like working for the Army, and sacrifice a fair amount of earning potential for job stability, low stress and an employer understanding of my Army Reserve career's need for me to take off often.
And I'm not starving by any stretch.
Dropping out of college after the first year was the best decision I could have made.
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Going into the trades after dealing with low paying jobs that my college degree "success" brought was the best decision I could have made.
I'm actually cool with there being a tradesman shortage, makes my skillset all the more valuable...
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Going into the trades after dealing with low paying jobs that my college degree "success" brought was the best decision I could have made.
I'm actually cool with there being a tradesman shortage, makes my skillset all the more valuable...
I seriously looked into being an electrician a few years ago, every time I went to apply for many of the local contractors and local union they always had this sign up
We are not accepting applications at this time. Future dates will be posted 30 days prior to opening.
or something similar. I just checked today, same sign. I'm not sure if they are limiting new people to increase the price they can charge per hour or what.
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I seriously looked into being an electrician a few years ago, every time I went to apply for many of the local contractors and local union they always had this sign up
or something similar. I just checked today, same sign. I'm not sure if they are limiting new people to increase the price they can charge per hour or what watt.
Made a pun for you. =D
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The inability of employers to give a simple 30-120min test means employers make applicants show them that applicants have a minimum level of intelligence and persistence by means of a college degree. Black-robed tyrants, congresscritters, malicious bureaucritters, and race-hustlers have inflicted a burden of 4+ years, tens of thousands of dollars, and untold opportunity costs on students / job applicants in lieu of a $5-$100 cost to the employer.
IMO, this has been the driving force behind the rise of the Associate's degrees, and a lot of classroom-based certification programs. Should be a lot more of them, though.
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I seriously looked into being an electrician a few years ago, every time I went to apply for many of the local contractors and local union they always had this sign up
or something similar. I just checked today, same sign. I'm not sure if they are limiting new people to increase the price they can charge per hour or what.
Not all trades are created equal. Electrician is one of the most commonly pursued, and depending on which shop you go to it's heavily construction dependent.
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Made a pun for you. =D
shockingly delightful!
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Seems to me there is a need for about an associates worth of education where the rubber meets the road between machinery and their controls. A solid grounding(i see what I did there) in electrical theory, PLCs and such will be a ticket to a good job if you can tie that to some demonstrated practical mechanical skills.
IOW, everything is too complex for Mr. Shadetree Local to fix, whether it is a JD tractor or a CNC mill. Pack your suitcase, a travelling tech is where it is at.
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Glassblowing.
I used to work with a guy who got into a glassblowing program at Aldrich Chemical. He now has his own scientific glassware supply/repair shop. He does have a chem degree, but he makes way more doing this than he ever would as a chemist. He's also the only person I know personally who has more guns than I do- and its all high end stuff.
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When we hire operators for the plant, they are asked to take a mechanical aptitude test online. It is simple stuff like which way a certain gear turns in a group. That and my boss likes to quiz them in interviews about mechanical work they do at home. Someone who doesn't know how the float in a toilet works usually will not make a good operator. A good operations job doing shift work can be a pretty good long term job. They guys who like the hunt and fish usually like it since the shift only works 15 days a month not counting OT.
Very good welders often make good money, but they have to do,it well. I have an uncle who does pipeline welding and has his own rig on his truck. They make good money though they often have to go off to BFE and do 7 - 12's for several weeks on a job. We had a company in a plant I was at doing welding on a nickel/iron/chrome alloy that were very well paid, but they earned it and didn't mess around. One guy kept grinding and going back over spots and got run off in the middle of it.
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What might be a good plan is to move college loans back to private only and bring back the bankruptcy protection. Bank might be more careful who they give money to. It might also force universities to cut fees a little.
I went to JUCO on academic scholarship and did Co-op jobs. My Dad pretty much paid for me going to A&M for about 3 years. However, fees and tuition were a good bit less than today. I think my most expensive semester was still under $2500 for books, fees, and tuition. I think it is at least 3 times more expensive now. However, I have run across A&M graduates from out of state who told me out-of-state tuition was still cheaper than their local major universities.
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Glassblowing.
I used to work with a guy who got into a glassblowing program at Aldrich Chemical. He now has his own scientific glassware supply/repair shop. He does have a chem degree, but he makes way more doing this than he ever would as a chemist. He's also the only person I know personally who has more guns than I do- and its all high end stuff.
One of my favorite classes in chemistry school was lab glassblowing!
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Very good welders often make good money, but they have to do,it well. I have an uncle who does pipeline welding and has his own rig on his truck. They make good money though they often have to go off to BFE and do 7 - 12's for several weeks on a job. We had a company in a plant I was at doing welding on a nickel/iron/chrome alloy that were very well paid, but they earned it and didn't mess around. One guy kept grinding and going back over spots and got run off in the middle of it.
Who is welding inconel? I love that stuff. With the OT looks like this year is going to be a 70K gross, not terrible considering that i don't travel or weld out in the rain and mud.
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Dad was a pipe fitter, he made over $75k/year in the late 70's when that was a metric crapton of money. He was very good though, helped build a lot of hospitals, dams, and at least one nuke plant.
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Dad was a pipe fitter, he made over $75k/year in the late 70's when that was a metric crapton of money. He was very good though, helped build a lot of hospitals, dams, and at least one nuke plant.
My Dad did Sprinkler Fitting which is similar. Installing fire protection. He is retired now.
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Who is welding inconel? I love that stuff. With the OT looks like this year is going to be a 70K gross, not terrible considering that i don't travel or weld out in the rain and mud.
It is actually called Manurite. It is high temperature metal that operates at up to 1700 F (for us at least). The tubes are welded to a header which is welded together until it gets out to some refractory lined pipe and then a waste heat boiler. (Steam Methane Reformer)
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What might be a good plan is to move college loans back to private only and bring back the bankruptcy protection. Bank might be more careful who they give money to. It might also force universities to cut fees a little.
Many of them have, some haven't. I work at a university that has made some major cuts, but it is very expensive to run one. STEM fields are really expensive because you have to pay for talent and labs are expensive to run.
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My Dad did Sprinkler Fitting which is similar. Installing fire protection. He is retired now.
My Dad did die making/maintenance and machining.
He retired at 62. (last year)
He goes fishing every day now.
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It is actually called Manurite. It is high temperature metal that operates at up to 1700 F (for us at least). The tubes are welded to a header which is welded together until it gets out to some refractory lined pipe and then a waste heat boiler. (Steam Methane Reformer)
Very interesting. Essentially inconel, monel, hasteloy or whatever you want to call your trademark. A high nickel superalloy. Welds with inconel filler. Addition of niobium is what makes the alloy particularly good for high temp applications. Learn something everyday. I also learned that based on the several thousand dollar cost per foot of pipe you'd be dealing with that it is no wonder they run off bad welders.
Stuff is fun to weld when it is new. Problem is that most of the inconel alloys I encountered were not new because they were broken. Mostly hot section engine parts. Nothing like welding something that has heat cycled a few thousand times and has cracks you don't even know about yet.
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What might be a good plan is to move college loans back to private only and bring back the bankruptcy protection. Bank might be more careful who they give money to. It might also force universities to cut fees a little.
I think it is at least 3 times more expensive now. However, I have run across A&M graduates from out of state who told me out-of-state tuition was still cheaper than their local major universities.
15 years ago, most of the budget at state schools came from the state and from the federal government, since 1999 this portion from the State and feds has been shrinking where many universities funding sources are less than 50% from their state, some are as low as 40%. The loss of revenue has to come from somewhere, so tuition is increased to cover part of it. Sounds like more free market to me and less government involvement to. No one makes people go to post secondary school and forces them to get a degree that doesn't pay well in the real world.
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The market distortion comes from government loans to students who otherwise couldn't get a loan.
The schools and government are in cahoots.
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15 years ago, most of the budget at state schools came from the state and from the federal government, since 1999 this portion from the State and feds has been shrinking where many universities funding sources are less than 50% from their state, some are as low as 40%. The loss of revenue has to come from somewhere, so tuition is increased to cover part of it. Sounds like more free market to me and less government involvement to. No one makes people go to post secondary school and forces them to get a degree that doesn't pay well in the real world.
Fed.gov backed student loans with no chance of default.
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Very interesting. Essentially inconel, monel, hasteloy or whatever you want to call your trademark. A high nickel superalloy. Welds with inconel filler. Addition of niobium is what makes the alloy particularly good for high temp applications. Learn something everyday. I also learned that based on the several thousand dollar cost per foot of pipe you'd be dealing with that it is no wonder they run off bad welders.
Stuff is fun to weld when it is new. Problem is that most of the inconel alloys I encountered were not new because they were broken. Mostly hot section engine parts. Nothing like welding something that has heat cycled a few thousand times and has cracks you don't even know about yet.
Most of the welding is done on new metal. The thicker header pipe is the only part that is used. We have to replace some of the furnace tubes periodically.
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15 years ago, most of the budget at state schools came from the state and from the federal government, since 1999 this portion from the State and feds has been shrinking where many universities funding sources are less than 50% from their state, some are as low as 40%. The loss of revenue has to come from somewhere, so tuition is increased to cover part of it. Sounds like more free market to me and less government involvement to. No one makes people go to post secondary school and forces them to get a degree that doesn't pay well in the real world.
Over that time, post-sec administrative positions have multiplied at state schools. To the point that in some state university systems, administrators & bureaucritters outnumber instructors. And they are subsidizing worthless departments. Cut the multitude of useless mouths at the trough and see some real educational efficiency blossom.
Also, You assume less state funding, but are plying percentile games. For example, if the state maintains its level of funding, but the university raises tuition, the percentage of total funding from the state goes down. Without cutting a single dollar going from the taxpayers to the state university system. There is no "loss of revenue."
This happened here when the legislature lifted restrictions of tuition increases. "Oh the noze, the state is SLASHING post-secondary education funding!!!!111!!!" No, the state schools just drastically increased tuition and went on building and hiring splurges.
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Iconel is also used in a lot of the better suppressors for the baffles. Welding inconel to titanium seems like it'd be tricky.
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Fed.gov backed student loans with no chance of default.
Those have been around for decades, since 1965. That was long before tuition was increased faster than inflation.
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I thought intelligence tests were not legal but skills tests were if administered universally to all applicants?
When I applied with my current employer I had to take a 2 part test. First part was basic mechanical and simple electrical knowledge second part was more advanced electronics that included basic calculations using formulas for ohms law, and inductive and capacitive circuits as well as some basic computer logic diagrams where you had to determine the output state of various gates by a given input. After 14+ years actually sort of using that knowledge it was a simple test to me and by the look on the he test proctor's face when he scored it I did some better than average. They wouldn't tell us our actual score.
Sadly, knowing that some of my co-workers took and passed that same test tells me the passing score wasn't very high.
There were 4 of us that hired into the same work group and started on the same day. 3 of us were veterans and had 10-14 years in a related field. The 4th guy was a very recent graduate from a local vo-tech adult program. Good guy, sharp and a hard worker but he was constantly bitching about 3 of us starting at a higher step on the pay scale. He was convinced it was because he was black.
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I thought intelligence tests were not legal but skills tests were if administered universally to all applicants?
I'm currently applying for a state job in another state and I had to take a simple test to get to a second test before I can even submit my application material.
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When I applied with my current employer I had to take a 2 part test. First part was basic mechanical and simple electrical knowledge second part was more advanced electronics that included basic calculations using formulas for ohms law, and inductive and capacitive circuits as well as some basic computer logic diagrams where you had to determine the output state of various gates by a given input. After 14+ years actually sort of using that knowledge it was a simple test to me and by the look on the he test proctor's face when he scored it I did some better than average. They wouldn't tell us our actual score.
Sadly, knowing that some of my co-workers took and passed that same test tells me the passing score wasn't very high.
There were 4 of us that hired into the same work group and started on the same day. 3 of us were veterans and had 10-14 years in a related field. The 4th guy was a very recent graduate from a local vo-tech adult program. Good guy, sharp and a hard worker but he was constantly bitching about 3 of us starting at a higher step on the pay scale. He was convinced it was because he was black.
When I was interviewing at the shop part of the process was taking a mechanical aptitude test.
Very basic, such as showing a picture of gears and asking which way indicated gears turned, showing a balance bar with loads on each end and asking where the fulcrum placement would be most effective, etc. Similar stuff to what is on the military ASVAB. No math.
I scored an 89. I was told the average score was 62.