Author Topic: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years  (Read 10280 times)

Paddy

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2008, 01:11:38 PM »
Unless, of course, the 'dip' is the beginning of a slide, in which case they bought too soon and paid too much.  We'll see.  If I'm wrong, Brad, I'll mail ya a nickel.  laugh

Brad Johnson

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2008, 01:12:55 PM »
Unless, of course, the 'dip' is the beginning of a slide, in which case they bought too soon and paid too much.  We'll see.  If I'm wrong, Brad, I'll mail ya a nickel.  laugh

Probably COD, too.    grin

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thebaldguy

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2008, 02:58:10 PM »
The inflation rate, like the jobless rate, has been tinkered with for years. I know both rates are acutally higher than they report.

Ben

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2008, 03:05:48 PM »
Quote
Incorrect.  Most of the land now being brought into production hasn't trasitioned from crowing other cash crops.  It has been brought back into production after laying fallow under the Crop Reduction Program.

Truthfully I can only speak for the San Joaquin valley in CA, where I can tell you there is little fallow land. A couple of ethanol plants are being built, and I have firsthand seen a major transition to corn on land that was previously growing barley, wheat, alfalfa, etc. I'm talking like 70% change on farmland that wasn't already in something long term like trees.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2008, 06:57:12 PM »
AHHHHH, it's all bushco's fault!


That'll be enough of THAT, mister!!  As forum scapegoat, I don't take kindly to competition.   angry
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Paddy

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2008, 07:13:05 PM »
We have a saying here in CA.  "Don't make no difference how the donkey got in the ditch, get the SOB out"

seeker_two

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2008, 01:44:18 AM »
We have a saying here in CA.  "Don't make no difference how the donkey got in the ditch, get the SOB out"

I TRIED!!!.....but you guys out-voted me in '04......  angry
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Waitone

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2008, 02:23:27 AM »
Inflation bad?  They change the algorithm used to calculate inflation every 8 to 10 years anyhow.  Strangely enough it tends to reset inflation to a lower value each time.  So when they say it is the worst in 17 years was it measured based on Clinton's last formula or was it based on Bush's current method?
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Paddy

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2008, 06:44:53 AM »
Apparently, the 'stimulus package' will be send everybody a few hundred bucks:

Bush considering $800 tax rebate to boost US economy: report     
Jan 18 05:42 AM US/Eastern


Possible Short Term Measure to Help Boost the Sagging US Economy

      President George W. Bush's administration is considering an individual tax rebate of up to 800 dollars as a short term measure to help boost the sagging US economy, a media report said Friday.

The Republican leader was to unveil a fiscal stimulus plan later Friday, amid grim economic news that has united lawmakers and the Federal Reserve chief on the need to revive flagging US growth.

The White House has said Bush would propose policies, not dollar amounts, because details of the plan must be hammered out with the Democratic-controlled Congress.

"Privately, the White House has discussed its support for a tax rebate of as much as 800 dollars for individual taxpayers, more than double the 300 dollar rebate featured in a 2001 effort to spur economic growth," the Wall Street Journal said.

In a key concession to Democrats, the US administration appeared willing to accept stimulus legislation that does not include an extension of Bush's tax cuts, the Journal said.

Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, are suggesting they would be willing to suspend their own budget rules and accept a tax break without first figuring out how to pay for it, the Journal said.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Congress would have an economy-boosting package ready by January 28, when Bush delivers his annual agenda-shaping State of the Union speech.

The two sides have been jolted into a bipartisan mood by the latest round of weak economic news and a downward spiral on Wall Street that prompted Fed chairman Ben Bernanke and others to talk up the need for swift action.

Bush and US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson held a conference call Thursday with top lawmakers from both parties to discuss the issue, a spokesman said.

"Tomorrow, he'll call for effective, temporary, growth measures and will lay out his principles for what an effective approach should be," said spokesman Tony Fratto.

In remarks expected around noon (1700 GMT), the US president will "let the American people know that he does believe that short-term temporary measures are needed to help the economy through this period," said the spokesman.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080118104215.zxj8hvdk&show_article=1

heh. I won'd spend mine.  I'll turn it into silver coins and hoard it.  laugh

Manedwolf

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2008, 06:46:15 AM »
The 2001 rebate was put into play in 2000.

When would this get into play? They think the IRS is going to get off its ass and process the mountains, binders, and bookshelves of paperwork to do this in just a couple months?

HA!

Paddy

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2008, 06:50:42 AM »
Why fool with the IRS?  Just send pallets of cash to every state in the country and have people walk around passing it out to the locals.  That's what Bushco did in Iraq.

Manedwolf

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2008, 06:58:14 AM »
Why fool with the IRS?  Just send pallets of cash to every state in the country and have people walk around passing it out to the locals.  That's what Bushco did in Iraq.

You're doing it again...


Paddy

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2008, 07:14:11 AM »
'Stimulus package' sounds like something you might order off the menu at one of those Nevada ranches.  "I'll have the $99 stimulus package, please"  laugh

K Frame

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2008, 08:01:07 AM »
'Stimulus package' sounds like something you might order off the menu at one of those Nevada ranches.  "I'll have the $99 stimulus package, please"  laugh

OK, that's some funny stuff right there...  laugh
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Art Eatman

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2008, 04:02:02 PM »
Quite a bit of cotton land has been planned for transition to corn, this coming season.  Cotton prices are expected to rise.  A good bit of the new lands for corn is irrigated from the Ogalalla formation, which is already over-used.  In the Pacific Northwest (as in Germany), corn has been planted instead of hops.   In Germany, the beer price is up around 15% and in the U.S. a fair number of micro-breweries have been forced out of business.

Looks to me we're entering into stagflation:  A contraction of the economy, generally, coupled with prices rising faster than wages.  Note that freight shipments are down some three percent, for ocean, rail and semi.

However, we may have a small respite from the decay of the dollar, since our contraction is hurting many other countries' economies.  And Britain is, on a smaller scale, but a year or so behind us on housing-market woes.  But, this stimulus package adds to the deficit.  If the Fed does drop the rate by 0.5%, look for commodity-export countries' curriences to rise against the dollar.

Anybody catch the article about us losing our AAA bond rating within ten years?  Because of the costs of Medicare and Social Insecurity?  Guaranteed Health Plan, anybody?  Duh?  And 365 Baby Boomers per hour are hitting age 62--so in three years they'll get Medicare.

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Tecumseh

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2008, 04:09:52 PM »
So Bush and Co. want to raise the gas tax. 

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/011608dnmettransportationstudy.2502f256.html

Quote
From LINK ABOVE

Study: Toll roads alone won't pay for U.S. highway needs

Bipartisan panel says Congress will need to increase gas tax

11:55 PM CST on Tuesday, January 15, 2008

By MICHAEL A. LINDENBERGER / The Dallas Morning News
mlindenberger@dallasnews.com

A federal commission created by Congress called for big increases to the federal gas tax on Tuesday as part of a sweeping overhaul of how America builds and pays for its highways, bridges and transit systems.

The proposal for a 40-cent increase over five years touched off a stormy debate in Washington that is expected to last until at least 2009, when legislation governing scores of transportation programs expires and must be rewritten.

In Texas, Gov. Rick Perry condemned the proposals.

"Washington is still mired in old-school bureaucratic thinking," Mr. Perry said in response to Tuesday's long-awaited report by the National Surface Transportation Policy and Revenue Study Commission. "Washington is clearly incapable of meeting today's transportation demands, so why should anyone believe they can handle tomorrow's?"

With Mr. Perry as governor, Texas has been among the nation's strongest advocates for giving states more authority to partner with private companies to build highways as toll roads. Dozens of new toll roads have been proposed in Texas, and his administration has routinely rejected calls for higher gas taxes.

Mr. Perry's strong reaction Tuesday reiterates his long-standing support for aggressive pursuit of private toll financing, and puts him in lock-step with the Bush administration. Though U.S. Secretary of Transportation Mary Peters led the panel, on Tuesday she rejected its call for higher gas taxes.

Ms. Peters signed the report but joined the two other administration appointees on the panel in issuing a dissenting statement opposing higher gas taxes. Like Mr. Perry, Ms. Peters believes the federal government should reduce the role it plays in building America's roads. Instead, both want to give states greater freedom to partner with private companies to meet those needs.

"Raising gas taxes won't improve traffic congestion, it will only perpetuate our ineffective reliance on fossil-based fuels to fund infrastructure and send more of Americans' hard-earned money to Washington to be squandered on earmarks and special-interest programs," Ms. Peters said.

But all nine of the members appointed by Congress in 2005, including five appointed by Republicans, say new taxes are critical.

"I am a die-hard conservative Republican," panel member Paul Weyrich, founding president of the conservative Heritage Foundation, said at a news conference Tuesday. "And it has become an absolute orthodoxy within the conservative movement that you cannot raise any taxes. Well, in this particular instance, I don't see any alternative."

Reform in 2009

None of the report's recommendations are binding for Congress. But its release prompted comment from all sides of the national debate over taxes and tolls. It is widely expected to frame the discussion between now and 2009 over how to fix the nation's aging and inadequate network of roads, bridges and rail lines.

Legislation that governs federal transportation programs expires next year, and the new laws that will be needed will probably be among the most heavily debated in Congress. Committee hearings begin this month.

The panel wants Congress to raise the federal gas tax  currently at 18.4 cents a gallon  by 5 to 8 cents a year for five years, and then allow the rate to grow with inflation after that. By then, drivers would be paying $6 extra for every 15-gallon tank. The panel also wants state gas taxes increased.

That's too much, said Carrollton resident Jon Moore.

"We are taxed to death already. It costs more to eat, to drive, to live. Every year, the property taxes go up on our houses," said Mr. Moore, who is self-employed and commutes as little as possible. "It cost $75 just to register a car each year. Why is that? If we use too much water, they tack on a penalty. If we use too little water, they raise the rate. ... Everyone wants more no matter how many repossessions are taking place."

Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, also rejected the idea of raising the federal gas tax.

"With Americans paying more than $3 per gallon at the pump and the economy teetering on a recession, we should be providing tax relief, not imposing a tax that has the greatest impact on lower- and middle-class families," her spokesman Matt Mackowiak said.

Jack Schenendorf, the commission's vice chairman, acknowledged that voters and lawmakers are reluctant to pour money into a system he described as broken.

"We believe that it [the gas tax] can be raised, but only if you go to the people with a clear mission with what you are going to use it for," he said. "All of us believe that the federal program needs to be fundamentally changed."

Other major recommendations include a complete reorganization and streamlining of the federal transportation system.

The panel wants spending on U.S. transportation infrastructure to nearly triple to at least $225 billion a year for the next 50 years.

"This is going to take political leadership," Mr. Schenendorf said. "We have concluded that our surface transportation system in America is at a crossroads. We have a looming crisis coming. A failure to act would be catastrophic to this nation."

Government's role

Ms. Peters and Mr. Perry are not alone in arguing that the federal government wastes the money it now has and shouldn't be rewarded with large new taxes. Others who support the panel's call for a continued federal leadership role in transportation say higher taxes are the wrong approach.

U.S. Rep. John Mica, the ranking Republican on the House transportation committee, said big gas-tax increases are a bad idea.

"While I respect their hard work and efforts, the commission's recommendation of a dramatic increase in the gas tax does not stand a snowball's chance in hell of passing Congress," said Mr. Mica, who has visited Dallas frequently in the past few years to discuss what he calls a looming crisis in transportation funding.

In an interview, he said Congress could support indexing the gas tax to inflation but suggested more emphasis be placed on leveraging what funds it gets by issuing bonds and partnering with the private sector to build toll roads.

So-called public-private partnerships have been a centerpiece of Mr. Perry's approach since he first took office. Since then, dozens of tolls roads have been proposed for Texas, and many of them will be eligible to be built by private companies. The Spanish firm Cintra is developing the first phase of the massive Trans-Texas Corridor, and private firms are expected to bid this year to build six new toll lanes on LBJ Freeway in Dallas.

Twenty-three states let private companies partner with governments to build toll roads or bridges, the report said. In all, 31 states have tolled structures of one type or another.

But the report also urges states to impose restrictions on contracts with private firms, something advocates of so-called public-private partnerships say the companies will find onerous.

Robert Black, spokesman for Mr. Perry, said restrictions on such deals should not be imposed from Washington.

"The governor sees this report as Washington, D.C., trying to implement a top-down, one-size-fits-all approach," he said. "Instead, it should free the states up to decide which restrictions it wants to impose. It ought to be the state's prerogative, not the federal government's."

One aspect of the report that would give states more authority to toll both new and existing interstates drew criticism from Ms. Hutchison.

"Taxpayers should never be asked to pay twice for a highway," said her spokesman, Mr. Mackowiak.
KEY RECOMMENDATIONS

"Raise federal gas taxes by up to 40 cents per gallon by 2014

"Raise overall transportation spending by all governments to at least $225 billion a year  nearly triple the current level

"Allow states to toll new and existing interstates, particularly in major metro areas

"Encourage private toll roads, but with new limitations

"Save money by reducing the time it takes to build major projects

WHAT IT MEANS TO YOU

If recommendations are passed into law:

"$6 in new federal taxes for every 15-gallon gas tank

"More lanes and better paving conditions

"Safer bridges

"New ticket tax for all transit rides

"Fewer tolls would be necessary than are currently planned in Texas
NEXT STEPS

"On Thursday, a House committee will hold the first hearing on the report.

"Later this month, the Senate will hold hearings.

"Next year, Congress will use the report in discussions of a bill re-authorizing and perhaps streamlining scores of federal transportation projects.

roo_ster

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2008, 07:46:04 PM »
Quote
Incorrect.  Most of the land now being brought into production hasn't trasitioned from crowing other cash crops.  It has been brought back into production after laying fallow under the Crop Reduction Program.

Truthfully I can only speak for the San Joaquin valley in CA, where I can tell you there is little fallow land. A couple of ethanol plants are being built, and I have firsthand seen a major transition to corn on land that was previously growing barley, wheat, alfalfa, etc. I'm talking like 70% change on farmland that wasn't already in something long term like trees.


Quite a bit of cotton land has been planned for transition to corn, this coming season.  Cotton prices are expected to rise.  A good bit of the new lands for corn is irrigated from the Ogalalla formation, which is already over-used.  In the Pacific Northwest (as in Germany), corn has been planted instead of hops.   In Germany, the beer price is up around 15% and in the U.S. a fair number of micro-breweries have been forced out of business.

Looks to me we're entering into stagflation:  A contraction of the economy, generally, coupled with prices rising faster than wages.  Note that freight shipments are down some three percent, for ocean, rail and semi.

My observations match BenW's and Arts.  I was struck, this year, by all the cotton fields eing replaced by corn this year...in SE Texas (not exactly prime corn-land).

Our politicians have helped beat us about the head with inflation.  Ethanol mandates & subsidies, restrictions on energy extraction/exploration, increased CAFE mandates, etc.  They have made a tough situation worse.


Regards,

roo_ster

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----G.K. Chesterton

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2008, 07:55:09 PM »

Our politicians have helped beat us about the head with inflation.  Ethanol mandates & subsidies, restrictions on energy extraction/exploration, increased CAFE mandates, etc.  They have made a tough situation worse.
Agreed.  Environmentalism is really starting to drag down our economy.  Most of this inflation is due to artificially short supplies of gasoline.  If the oil companies were allowed to drill and refine more, and if we didn't have these stupid ethanol subsidies, I bet 3/4 of our current economic travails would disappear. 

Hopefully the country will regain its senses before too long, otherwise things are only going to get worse.

grislyatoms

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2008, 05:47:57 AM »
FWIW

I keep a price book for groceries, so I can have something to bitch about when prices rise grin. I'm also a consumate cheap-ass. grin

Anyway, in the last couple of months:

The price of a can of tuna has doubled. $.50 - $1.00
The price of a dozen eggs has more than doubled. $.88 - $1.98
Milk has gone up $1.20 a gallon
10 lb. sack of potatoes has gone up $1.00
1 lb. of cheese has gone up $.54
Loaf of bread has gone up $.16

Interestingly, meat prices have remained stable. I am paying the same price for lean boneless pork, fresh salmon, and whole fryers that I have paid for the last two or three years, although a pound of shrimp has gone up $1 or so. I rarely eat beef, so I can't comment on those prices. Vegetable prices have remained fairly stable as well, including dry beans, rice, etc.

The only price I have seen drop, which really surprised me, is the price on bacon, of all things. It has gone down almost $.25 a pound. First time I have ever seen a price drop like that. Maybe there's a bacon glut in my market. grin
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Tallpine

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2008, 07:19:31 AM »
Quote
Outside of food and energy, inflation rose a more moderate 0.2 percent in December

See, if people would just give up luxuries like food, transportation, and heating their homes, they could just stay at home and be happy watching their big screen TVs.  rolleyes

When I graduated from HS in 1972, min wage was $1.60/hr (IIRC) and gas was 30 to 32 cents per gallon.  Now gas is $3++ a gallon, so min wage should be $16/hr  shocked

(not that I believe in govt mandated min wage - just making a comparison)
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Manedwolf

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2008, 07:32:09 AM »
FWIW

I keep a price book for groceries, so I can have something to bitch about when prices rise grin. I'm also a consumate cheap-ass. grin

Anyway, in the last couple of months:

The price of a can of tuna has doubled. $.50 - $1.00
The price of a dozen eggs has more than doubled. $.88 - $1.98
Milk has gone up $1.20 a gallon
10 lb. sack of potatoes has gone up $1.00
1 lb. of cheese has gone up $.54
Loaf of bread has gone up $.16

Interestingly, meat prices have remained stable. I am paying the same price for lean boneless pork, fresh salmon, and whole fryers that I have paid for the last two or three years, although a pound of shrimp has gone up $1 or so. I rarely eat beef, so I can't comment on those prices. Vegetable prices have remained fairly stable as well, including dry beans, rice, etc.

The only price I have seen drop, which really surprised me, is the price on bacon, of all things. It has gone down almost $.25 a pound. First time I have ever seen a price drop like that. Maybe there's a bacon glut in my market. grin


The price of pork has gone down quite a bit. I don't mind that at all! Cheaper bacon, ham, roast pork and other things I like to eat and that are apparrently Kryptonite to some extremist people in the sandbox. I find it somehow amusing that I could offend someone with a sandwich.

Ben

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2008, 07:38:41 AM »
Quote
Cheaper bacon, ham, roast pork

Homer: Are you saying you're never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Ham?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Pork chops?
Lisa: Dad, those all come from the same animal.
Homer: Heh heh heh. Ooh, yeah, right, Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal.
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Art Eatman

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2008, 07:05:56 AM »
Re the gas tax proposal:  I get fed up with our societal "free lunch" deal about the gas tax.  The purpose is to pay for construction and maintenance of highways.  It's way too low to do that.  But if DOT says, "We don't have the money for that new highway unless it's a toll road," folks go all bonkers about the evils of toll roads.

TANSTAAFL
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roo_ster

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2008, 01:36:50 PM »
Re the gas tax proposal:  I get fed up with our societal "free lunch" deal about the gas tax.  The purpose is to pay for construction and maintenance of highways.  It's way too low to do that.  But if DOT says, "We don't have the money for that new highway unless it's a toll road," folks go all bonkers about the evils of toll roads.

TANSTAAFL

Actually, if they spent the fuel taxes on roads instead of mass transit boondoggles and other damnfool enterprises, it would be sufficient.  From what I have read, 40% of fuel taxes are sucked off for mass-transit and other wastes.  Spend that 40% on 12-lane monster freeways and pave our way back to sane commute times.

Another data point I read last week was that the LA light rail system costs $234 million more per year to operate than it generates in revenue and serves less than 1/10% of the commuting folks in LA.  That $234 million/year does not take into account the initial cost of building the abortion.
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roo_ster

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Tecumseh

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Re: Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2008, 01:43:06 PM »
FWIW

I keep a price book for groceries, so I can have something to bitch about when prices rise grin. I'm also a consumate cheap-ass. grin

Anyway, in the last couple of months:

The price of a can of tuna has doubled. $.50 - $1.00
The price of a dozen eggs has more than doubled. $.88 - $1.98
Milk has gone up $1.20 a gallon
10 lb. sack of potatoes has gone up $1.00
1 lb. of cheese has gone up $.54
Loaf of bread has gone up $.16

Interestingly, meat prices have remained stable. I am paying the same price for lean boneless pork, fresh salmon, and whole fryers that I have paid for the last two or three years, although a pound of shrimp has gone up $1 or so. I rarely eat beef, so I can't comment on those prices. Vegetable prices have remained fairly stable as well, including dry beans, rice, etc.

The only price I have seen drop, which really surprised me, is the price on bacon, of all things. It has gone down almost $.25 a pound. First time I have ever seen a price drop like that. Maybe there's a bacon glut in my market. grin


The price of pork has gone down quite a bit. I don't mind that at all! Cheaper bacon, ham, roast pork and other things I like to eat and that are apparrently Kryptonite to some extremist people in the sandbox. I find it somehow amusing that I could offend someone with a sandwich.

Yeah the Jewish religion is funny that way.