5 year old shoots/kills his little sister

[T.O.M.]

Folks, sometimes I find that I just can't shake my head hard enough.  We own guns.  We store them appropriately.  I don't think any one of us here would leave a loaded Cricket .22 rifle standing in the corner with a 5 year old and a 2 year old running around the house.

http://news.yahoo.com/5-old-boy-shoots-2-old-sister-ky-161229579.html

Yet, I'm sure we'll hear from somewhere these two things...
1.  Guns that small/designed for children are bad and should be banned.
2.  There should be a law mandating that all guns must be locked in a safe, and the homes inspected by LEO's to make sure they are.

I can't help but wonder if the battle we fight won't be lost one day because of the criminal use of firearms, but rather by the seemingly constant stream of stupidity deomstrated by irresponsible gun owners who provide fodder for the anti movement on a continual basis.

[Fitz]

I can't help but wonder if the battle we fight won't be lost one day because of the criminal use of firearms, but rather by the seemingly constant stream of stupidity deomstrated by irresponsible gun owners who provide fodder for the anti movement on a continual basis.

Yep


Gun owners are our own worst enemies.

[Tallpine]

There should be a law mandating that all guns must be locked in a safe, and the homes inspected by LEO's to make sure they are.

Need to also inspect for properly locked up prescriptions and OTC products, cleaning supplies, and bathtub plugs.   

[CNYCacher]

Every year, more children drown in toilets and buckets than die by gun accidents.

Government-mandated toilet seat locks?

[makattak]

Every year, more children drown in toilets and buckets than die by gun accidents.

Government-mandated toilet seat locks?

You beat me to it. Although I was going to use backyard pools.

It sucks that a little girl was killed by her big (but still small) brother. I cannot believe the stupidity it takes to leave a gun ("we thought it was unloaded!) sitting in the corner with small children in the house. (For that matter, small or large children.)

However, we can't prevent stupidity. We can try (like the NRA does) to teach people not to be stupid, but there will always be tragedies like this. (Child puts a car in gear, uses a power tool, etc...)

I honestly cannot imagine having to deal with this.

[MechAg94]

Well, I can see leaving some guns accessible IF, IF, IF you trust your child discipline enough to keep the kids from playing with them like toys.  I don't know if I can or will be able to do that.  I know my brother wasn't able to with his kids at that age.  For me, at my earliest memory, I knew not to touch Dad's guns and they weren't toys.  We had our own toy guns.  (I remember my Dad helping me hold a 357 mag pistol while I pulled the trigger.  That ain't no toy.)  When/if I get to that point, I think I will defer to just locking them up except for what I can keep direct control of (in addition to teaching as best I can). 

[Hawkmoon]

A younger friend of mine is a fellow veteran (albeit from a different era entirely). He has decided that it's time for him to get a carry permit. Since I'm a certified NRA instructor, I'm going to give him the class he needs to take as a prerequisite to applying for the permit. He has three kids, a daughter who is about 11, a son who is maybe 9, and a younger son around 4. I asked my friend if he'd like the older son to do the class at the same time. He said no way. He's sure the kid isn't mature enough to absorb the safety precautions, and for that reason he doesn't want him to know any more about guns than he already knows. We'll do the class for him in a few years, when he can handle it.

[vaskidmark]

Well, I can see leaving some guns accessible IF, IF, IF you trust your child discipline enough to keep the kids from playing with them like toys.  I don't know if I can or will be able to do that.  I know my brother wasn't able to with his kids at that age.  For me, at my earliest memory, I knew not to touch Dad's guns and they weren't toys.  We had our own toy guns.  (I remember my Dad helping me hold a 357 mag pistol while I pulled the trigger.  That ain't no toy.)  When/if I get to that point, I think I will defer to just locking them up except for what I can keep direct control of (in addition to teaching as best I can). 

As cliched as it sounds, there was a fundamental difference in the parent-child relationship then as opposed to now,  And even if you are an absolute clone of your father the outside influences a child is exposed to make it difficult to establish the same milieu.

I don't like it, but it's the way things are.

stay safe.

[Perd Hapley]

Good thing it was not an assault weapon. The whole block might have been leveled!

[Strings]

Wait... doesn't the Cricket have a bloody internal lock?

[CNYCacher]

Wait... doesn't the Cricket have a bloody internal lock?

It's an option.  Some do, some don't.

[MechAg94]

Wait... doesn't the Cricket have a bloody internal lock?

Yeah, it is called "unloading". 

I don't know.  Considering the kid was shot in the chest, it makes me think the kid was playing with it and the trigger didn't just get pulled accidentally.  Not pointing guns at stuff you don't want to shoot should be something you can impress upon even a young kid. 

[T.O.M.]

Hate to say it, but my first prediction appears to be coming true...

http://news.yahoo.com/ky-child-shooting-part-urban-rural-gun-debate-085327467.html

It's towards the end where the children's hospital child-advocate (what the hell is that?) says that she's appalled about guns being marketed for kids.  And here we go...

There's a quote from State Rep. Robert R. Damron at the end... "Why single out firearms? Why not talk about all the other things that endanger children, too?" he said. "The Second Amendment doesn't give anybody carte blanche freedom to put children and juveniles at risk."

Wish I had a better context in which the statement was made, as his 2A comment seems out of place compared with the first half of the quote.

[Tallpine]

I'm sad about this.  I'm also sad when kids get killed in a car wreck or in a house fire.

Or killed by a brutal ex-husband/boyfriend because their mommy didn't have a gun to protect herself and her children.

[makattak]

I'm sad about this.  I'm also sad when kids get killed in a car wreck or in a house fire.

Or killed by a brutal ex-husband/boyfriend because their mommy didn't have a gun to protect herself and her children.

Actually, the first thing I thought of when I read this was the news story I read about two children (4 and 7) who drowned in a neighbor's pool last month. That was also an inconceivable tragedy to me.

[Tallpine]

Actually, the first thing I thought of when I read this was the news story I read about two children (4 and 7) who drowned in a neighbor's pool last month. That was also an inconceivable tragedy to me.

Yet anyone can purchase a pool without a background check 

If people want to swim then they can join the navy 

[drewtam]

Yet anyone can purchase a pool without a background check 

If people want to swim then they can join the navy 

Please don't make jokes about pool accidents. I know you didn't intended it that way, but it did come across as making light of it. I'm not overly sensitive to much, but this is one of those things.

I lost my little niece, 4yrs old. She lived at my parents place at the time, I was 14. Because of age and living arrangements, she was more of a little sister than a niece. Locked gates and fencing are not enough. It is a seriously under-appreciated risk. When kids want to get into something they aren't supposed to, when they think it is fun to play, they can be very determined and willfully ignorant of danger. Soon after the funeral we dismantled the pool. 16yrs ago, and just talking about it still hurts.

[Jamisjockey]

CNN is all over it, showing pictures of websites where you can buy crickett's and all.
 

[SteveS]

Hate to say it, but my first prediction appears to be coming true...

http://news.yahoo.com/ky-child-shooting-part-urban-rural-gun-debate-085327467.html

It's towards the end where the children's hospital child-advocate (what the hell is that?) says that she's appalled about guns being marketed for kids.  And here we go...

There's a quote from State Rep. Robert R. Damron at the end... "Why single out firearms? Why not talk about all the other things that endanger children, too?" he said. "The Second Amendment doesn't give anybody carte blanche freedom to put children and juveniles at risk."

Wish I had a better context in which the statement was made, as his 2A comment seems out of place compared with the first half of the quote.

I interpret that statement to mean the right to KABA doesn't insulate you from civil and criminal liability if you act grossly irresponsible.

Guns are not marketed to kids.  I have kids, so I watch some kids channels and see some kids periodicals.  I also watch what my kids look at on the internet.  I have never seen any ads for guns in any of these places.  Ever. 

Cricketts, and other similar guns, are marketed to parents that want to buy a gun that can be comfortably shot by a child.  My daughter has one, and by "has one", I mean that I bought it and she shoots it and handles it under my (or some other responsible grown up) supervision. 

A lot of sites are trying to make it seem like gun owners (especially in the South) buy guns for their kids and let them have them without any supervision.  I suppose it fits their view of the "gun culture."

[Tallpine]

Please don't make jokes about pool accidents. I know you didn't intended it that way, but it did come across as making light of it. I'm not overly sensitive to much, but this is one of those things.

...

I'm making light of the big deal that the media makes about firearm accidents while largely ignoring other hazards to children.

[Hawkmoon]

I don't know.  Considering the kid was shot in the chest, it makes me think the kid was playing with it and the trigger didn't just get pulled accidentally.  Not pointing guns at stuff you don't want to shoot should be something you can impress upon even a young kid.  

The question is whether a 5-year old ... ANY 5-year old ... can really absorb that lesson, and understand that the consequences of violating the rule can be irreversible. This is why my friend doesn't want his 9-year old to get the NRA Basic Pistol class yet. He doesn't think the kid is mature enough to fully comprehend the difference between toy guns and real guns that shoot real bullets.

[Poper]

A lot of sites are trying to make it seem like gun owners (especially in the South) buy guns for their kids and let them have them without any supervision.  I suppose it fits their view of the "gun culture."

Not necessarily, but it is often the way their patrons supervise their children's taste in music and their choices of video games.

Poper

[MechAg94]

The question is whether a 5-year old ... ANY 5-year old ... can really absorb that lesson, and understand that the consequences of violating the rule can be irreversible. This is why my friend doesn't want his 9-year old to get the NRA Basic Pistol class yet. He doesn't think the kid is mature enough to fully comprehend the difference between toy guns and real guns that shoot real bullets.

I guess that is where the parents have to know their kids and not leave rifles laying around, loaded or not. 

[T.O.M.]

I guess that is where the parents have to know their kids and not leave rifles laying around, loaded or not. 

Dad stopped locking the shotgun (his choice for HD) in the closet and moved it under his side of the bed when I was 15 and my brother was 11.  We proved to him we were trustworthy enough.

[drewtam]

In part, this is why I prefer big heavy rifles for HD. It is much easier for a kid to pick up and load a pistol than a large heavy rifle. I also speculate that there is a bit more psychological impact of a gun nearly the size of the kid than pistol. I speculate that they are more likely to consider a pistol a toy since it is so much easier to handle. Of course, none of this applies to extra small 22 carbines.

But a full size rifle is not fool proof, obviously. There will still be an age span where they are big enough to hold, but not mature enough to understand. I think a heavy rifle shrinks that danger zone, compared to a pistol or 22 carbine.