Starting an AR-10 build

[AmbulanceDriver]

Gonna build me an AR-10 in 6.5 Creedmoor....   Plan is to build this up as an entry level 1000 yard gun.  24" barrel (seems to give the best balance of length vs. velocity)  Aero Precision upper/lower, looking at a 4-14x44 FFP scope from Primary Arms - at least to start with.

Probably going to go with the MagPul PRS stock, free float handguard from AP as well (mates up with their upper perfectly).  AP also has a partner company (Ballistic Advantage) that makes barrels in 6.5C, they get surprisingly good reviews, so probably will go that route as well.

Definitely will be looking at a third party trigger, probably something two stage and adjustable.

So, smarter people, what am I missing (other that the small parts that I haven't listed out specifically) - or what would be a better alternative to what I've listed out so far?

[dogmush]

That should be a good start.  It'll be heavy though.

I have a PA 4-14 on my AR-10, and I really like it, but my builds purpose is way different from yours, and I'm not trying to reach out that far.  I'm a big fan of Primary Arms, but you might find their glass limits you at 1000.

On my 1000 yd gun I gave up a lot of the bells and whistles (and variable power) to pour my limited budget into good optics. I run a SWFA Super Sniper Fixed 20x on that rifle.  It's less versatile than my variable, illuminated, BDC scopes, but that rifle is pretty much only ever going to be a "lay down, range and fire a long way with plenty of time" rifle, so a few extra seconds panning around looking for the target are no big deal, and the glass and light transmission is noticeably better.

Food for thought.

[AmbulanceDriver]

Heavy is an understatement.  The 24" barrel I'm looking at alone weighs in at 5 lbs, 2.2 oz.  This is definitely not a "pack around all day in the woods hunting" rifle.    I'm looking at a couple of other options on the glass, but that was one of the first ones that caught my attention - and the price on it is hard to beat.   Especially for a FFP scope.

[Fly320s]

A 4 power scope for 1,000 yards? Am I reading that right?  Or did you mean to write 4-14x, which is also a bit odd as usually it would be 4-16x.

In either case, buy the best glass you can afford.

[dogmush]

He's talking about this scope:
http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-4-14x44mm-riflescope-mil-dot-pa4-14xffp

I have the ACSS DMR reticled version of the same scope. 

It's a LOT of scope for the money, and people have successfully made 1k yd rifles with one.  (pretty sure there's a video of one on the website) 

[AmbulanceDriver]

Yup, dogmush got it. I edited my original to clear it up. And i thought the 4-14 was weird too, but it apparently works

[Fly320s]

I understand that you want to save money, but I don't think that scope will serve you well, or for long.  If you are satisfied with that quality, then more power to you.  Or if you just want to try long range shooting and see if you like it, then go ahead and get the inexpensive scope.  I can tell you from personal experience that hitting targets at 1,000 yards isn't easy.  Every aspect of your ability and your equipment must work together to get consistent shots.

You'll be spending $1,000+ on just the rifle.  Add on a decent bipod for another $200.  Magazines, spare parts as needed will add on another $100 to $200.  And then the cost of ammo.  6.5CM is an expensive factory load costing about $1.00 to $1.25 per round.  If you reload, and you should to get max performance out of that rifle, your costs will drop significantly. 

I say all that so you will realize that you could easily spend $2,000 on the rifle and ammo and have it all fail because you bought a cheap scope.

If your budget allows it, buy a better scope.  Even a used one.

Buy once, cry once. 

[AmbulanceDriver]

I understand that you want to save money, but I don't think that scope will serve you well, or for long.  If you are satisfied with that quality, then more power to you.  Or if you just want to try long range shooting and see if you like it, then go ahead and get the inexpensive scope.  I can tell you from personal experience that hitting targets at 1,000 yards isn't easy.  Every aspect of your ability and your equipment must work together to get consistent shots.

You'll be spending $1,000+ on just the rifle.  Add on a decent bipod for another $200.  Magazines, spare parts as needed will add on another $100 to $200.  And then the cost of ammo.  6.5CM is an expensive factory load costing about $1.00 to $1.25 per round.  If you reload, and you should to get max performance out of that rifle, your costs will drop significantly. 

I say all that so you will realize that you could easily spend $2,000 on the rifle and ammo and have it all fail because you bought a cheap scope.

If your budget allows it, buy a better scope.  Even a used one.

Buy once, cry once. 

Definitely planning on handloading.   I've seen what it does for my .30-06 performance wise (never mind price wise!). 

I'm really torn on the scope.   I'm really liking the first focal plane scopes I've played with.  I kinda settled on this PA scope because it was a really well reviewed scope without busting the budget...   I mean, I *could* spend more on a scope, sure.  But a lot of the reading I've done seems to indicate that spending more doesn't necessarily get you that much more quality wise.   But that's why I like the brain trust here.   Someone on here has had experience with what I'm looking at doing and will have good advice... :)

[Fly320s]

Definitely planning on handloading.   I've seen what it does for my .30-06 performance wise (never mind price wise!).  

I'm really torn on the scope.   I'm really liking the first focal plane scopes I've played with.  I kinda settled on this PA scope because it was a really well reviewed scope without busting the budget...   I mean, I *could* spend more on a scope, sure.  But a lot of the reading I've done seems to indicate that spending more doesn't necessarily get you that much more quality wise.   But that's why I like the brain trust here.   Someone on here has had experience with what I'm looking at doing and will have good advice... :)

I have a little experience shooting long range, but I am no expert.  The last time I was shooting to 1k was in a class at the Sig Academy.  I remember wishing I had a better scope on my rifle so I could see everything better.  The target, the wind effects, the bullet trace.  I was using a Vortex then, the Viper HST.  It was a good enough scope for a beginner, which I was and still am, but it seemed to run out of clarity around 700 yards.  Much of the ability/clarity of the scope is dependent on the lighting conditions, but this happened on a sunny day.  The instructor had something fancy on his rifle.  It was a high-end Leupold or maybe a S&B, I forget.  I do remember looking though his scope and thinking, "Wow!  So that is what the target actually looks like."

All of that to say this: No one ever says "this scope is too good."    

Here, see what the pros use:  http://precisionrifleblog.com/2017/03/03/long-range-scopes-pros-use/
Scroll down until you see "Most popular scopes in Production division."  I think that will be what you are looking for.

[dogmush]

I think Flys320's is sorta right.  Like I said I have that scope, and 1000yds on it would be a stretch for me.  Obviously some shooters can do it, as there's videos, but I keep my shots with that scope in the 600-800 range.  I guess it also kinda depends on what you're shooting at.

On the flip side, if you go to his link all those scopes for "production class" are $1000 scopes.  I know you don't need that.

I only shoot 1000yds and farther with my .50BMG.  The range I use has 24"x24" steel plates for targets.  I use this scope* on that rifle and hit pretty regularly.  Call it 6 or 7 of every 10 shots.  That's pretty much my skill level, I'm not hitting much more than that unless I get a targeting system out of an M1A1 or something, but the scope isn't holding me back.  I think the Primary Arms would a little.  It's a great scope a little closer in.

If you have a grand to spend, the Vortex Viper PST 5-24 is a sweet chunk of glass.  Are you looking to get into competitions?  or just want to stretch your plinking legs a bit?

* on the "buy once, Cry once" theory that is the third scope I've had on the .50.  The first discount scope the recoil took apart, the second I couldn't see anything through.  All three scopes together however, aren't $1000.

[dogmush]

What's your timeframe on the build?

I'll be home at the end of the month.  I could pull my Primary Arms scope off the rifle, and find something a kilometer away to get some pics of the glass if you want.

[AmbulanceDriver]

This is going to be a pretty slow build.  No rush.  Probably not gonna put the first rounds through it until next year.  Too many other projects demanding my attention right now.  But the upper/lower combo that I wanted from PA was available (finally!) so I pulled the trigger on it (if you'll pardon the pun). 

[AmbulanceDriver]

Thread Necro!

Still not sure what I want to do on the glass on the rifle, but I finally got the barrel.  The BA barrel had been running between 300-315 (stepped down to 22", apparently that's the sweet spot on 6.5 Creedmoor in an AR-10 platform).  I was kicking myself because it had been on sale for about $250, and I missed it.   Then a week ago I got online and happened to see it on sale at $209.  Jumped on that with both feet, and it just arrived today.   DANG that thing is heavy.  Now I just need to watch for other stuff to go on sale... :D

[AmbulanceDriver]

Time to bring this thread back from the dead.

At this point, I'm waiting on a couple of parts from PrimaryArms, and this beast will be done.

So....   Aero Precision M5 upper and lower.  Aero LPK and 15" free float m-lok handguard

22" Ballistic Advantage 1:8 heavy barrel.

Luth-AR MBA3 Buttstock

Nickel-Boron BCG

Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 FFP scope

Trying to decide on whether to get a 20MOA mount or just a flat mount.  The scope has a total of 65 MOA adjustment range, but the goal of this rifle is an intermediate to long range rifle, say 300-1000 yards.   Right now leaning towards the 20MOA base, but open do discussion.

This beast is *HEAVY*.  Without scope, bipod, stock or magazine/ammo, it weighs in at 10 lbs and change already.   Probably going to end up in the 13 lb range.  But I knew that going into the build.  It's not a rifle I'm gonna be packing through the woods all day long.  Excited to see how it shoots!

ETA:  Larue MBT 2 stage trigger.   If you are looking for a 2-stage, non-adjustable* light trigger for an AR - don't bother looking anywhere else.  $80, it breaks like the proverbial glass rod/candy cane, 4.5 lbs, positive reset, and short travel. 

*They  do provide a "heavy" spring that you can swap out to get it to about a 6.5 lb pull

[MechAg94]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7UYXXuX4l0

I thought 1000 yards was easy.  Late Boy Scout did it with an inexpensive Savage.   

[Ben]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7UYXXuX4l0

I thought 1000 yards was easy.  Late Boy Scout did it with an inexpensive Savage.   

Dammit. I've been thinking about a rockchuck gun. I have no experience with 6.5 Creedmoor, but need to investigate this. It appears a left-hand version is available.

[dogmush]

Dammit. I've been thinking about a rockchuck gun. I have no experience with 6.5 Creedmoor, but need to investigate this. It appears a left-hand version is available.

Do you have any left hand bolt rifles?

I am sinister handed and had several, and sold them when I started using my bolt guns only for precision work.  When speed is less critical, and I'm shooting from a Bag/Bipod, I actually find it more consistent to leave my left hand on the pistol grip, cheekweld in place, and cycle the bolt with my right hand.  With short action rifles, it works great.  With my Savage Long action, the bolt comes close to my nose, but I can still do it.

If I was moose/caribou hunting again I might go back to left handed bolts, but for range fun time, right handed is where it's at.

YMMV though.

Also:  https://ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/specSheets/18029.html

[Ben]

Do you have any left hand bolt rifles?

I am sinister handed and had several, and sold them when I started using my bolt guns only for precision work.  When speed is less critical, and I'm shooting from a Bag/Bipod, I actually find it more consistent to leave my left hand on the pistol grip, cheekweld in place, and cycle the bolt with my right hand.  With short action rifles, it works great.  With my Savage Long action, the bolt comes close to my nose, but I can still do it.

If I was moose/caribou hunting again I might go back to left handed bolts, but for range fun time, right handed is where it's at.

YMMV though.

Also:  https://ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/specSheets/18029.html

I've only ever had right handed rifles and do similar to what you do, though I have a hard time holding a cheek weld. I was thinking a lefty bolt would be easier/more convenient, but maybe it's like a 1911, which (other than adding an ambi safety) I think I handle left-handed as efficiently as a right-hander does.

[dogmush]

Try one.  It does have it's advantages.  I just found, for me, it wasn't nearly as good as I thought it should be, and certainly not worth restricting rifles I wanted.  Part of it, is I don't do anything with a bolt gun that isn't slow, deliberate movements anymore.  Were I to start hunting again, I'd almost certainly use a semi.

If you don't like it, you can sell it.  (that's what I did)

[MechAg94]

Dammit. I've been thinking about a rockchuck gun. I have no experience with 6.5 Creedmoor, but need to investigate this. It appears a left-hand version is available.

I have heard some of the newer bolt action rifles have much better barrels than they did 20 years ago.  I know the triggers are pretty good.  One of these days I wanted to try a decent Savage in 6.5, but I will probably try to get a good scope.  The scope alone would cost some money so we will see.

The range I belong to only goes out to 600 yards so I wouldn't go to 1000 unless I find another location.

[Ben]

If you don't like it, you can sell it.  (that's what I did)

There he goes instigating again... 

[MechAg94]

I just saw a Primary Arms email announcing a Blem sale on optics.  Looks like it is all Primary Arms branded stuff.  A few of their more expensive optics are on the list.

[AmbulanceDriver]

 

She's practically done. Getting the scope mounted and boresighted Saturday, then she'll be ready to go. This rifle is the opposite of svelte, that's for sure.... With a 20 round mag, we'll be looking at right about 13-14 lbs....

Went with the Warne LR-Skel 20 MOA mount, and it'll be wearing the Vortex Diamondback 6-24x50... It's an amazingly clear optic, especially for under $400....

[Fly320s]

Clean build.

Vortex is making really good scopes for the price.

Nice turqouis shoes, TwinkleToes!   

[AmbulanceDriver]

Here she is all done....



And Fly, just for you, got rid of the turquoise shoes and replaced them with a pink one....  :D

She's a heavy one, that's for sure.  Just over 15 lbs with a loaded mag...

Getting my boresighter back from my brother this weekend, but probably won't get a chance to actually get to  the range until April - too many different family activities coming up the rest of March.....