Author Topic: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article  (Read 5165 times)

Matthew Carberry

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Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« on: March 09, 2007, 02:16:45 PM »
Check it out and prepare to contest streams...

Check out the Nozick essay for background.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/03/why_do_intellectuals_oppose_th.html

Quote
Almost a decade ago the late Harvard philosopher Robert Nozick penned an essay asking "Why Do Intellectuals Oppose Capitalism?" That is, why would those who live well reject the open society that allows them to do so? The essay was less a venture in social science than a thought experiment about the upbringing of intellectuals and the outsized influence this group exerts on society. Much of what Nozick says about intellectuals' reflexive disdain for capitalism also helps explain their disdain toward the military - and even the differences are intriguing. So his essay is worth pondering today as we survey civil-military relations in a nation at war.


Whom are we talking about? In his book Intellectuals, Paul Johnson defines a member of this elite group in general terms, as "someone who thinks ideas are more important than people." By contrast, Nozick confines his attentions to "wordsmith intellectuals" concentrated in professions such as the academy, print and electronic journalism, and government. He deems "numbersmiths" working in the sciences, business, and other quantitative fields less prone to anti-capitalist animus, despite similar intelligence and academic attainment. (Why this should be true warrants looking into.)

<continues>

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Gewehr98

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2007, 02:36:32 PM »
Before I retired from the USAF, I was never under any illusions of whom I worked for.  The military works for the civilian leadership of our country, period. The DoD doesn't make policy, nor does it create laws.  It exists to enact policy created by the civilian leadership. There has to be a symbiosis, otherwise it just won't work.  (Or it becomes a junta/coup, worst case)

I scratch my head when I read things like intellectual masturbationist Ezekiel bad-mouthing the military.  I've offered to take him to an Air Force base or Army fort, letting him see where his taxpayer dollars go.  The silence is indeed deafening. 

Vietnam vets went deep underground upon return from that conflict, many received scorn and derision from their fellow Americans at homecoming. 

I've seen similar things happening now with our young troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.  My return from Baghdad in 2005 was met by more than a few protestors.  I smiled and reminded myself that I was defending their right to protest, and left it at that.

Kipling would see the similarity were he alive today, I'm sure. 

Quote
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!



"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2007, 02:48:48 PM »
While what you say is true, the essays above address the issue from the other side.  What is it about scholarship, in and of itself, that can lead to disdain for capitalism in general and, in the second author's view, the military in particular?
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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2007, 04:24:00 PM »
If any of ya'll pass by Paul Johnson's Intellectuals, do not forget to pick it up.  Worth every minute I spent reading it.

The author of the article does a pretty good job explaining it: a sense of superiority cultivated in the academy meshed with rewards & status lesser than those they think thier inferiors.  Obviously, the system is broke if the intellectuals are not rewarded/revered above all others. rolleyes
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brimic

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2007, 05:13:18 PM »
Nothing suprising here. Not a day goes by that I don't hear a teacher or a spouse of a teacher whine about how little said teacher makes in salary vs the amount of education they have. My answer is always "If they are so smart and want more money, then why are they teaching"

Not suprisingly, most of the teachers I know and spouses of teachers lean hard to the left.



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Art Eatman

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2007, 05:14:18 PM »
Hey, the wordsmith crowd doesn't like sports people either.  Or car racing.

Me, I think it's a hidden envy they even they don't realize exists within them.  They are afraid of the risks of entrepreneurial capitalism, for one thing.  They are afraid of the risks of sports from physical contacts at high speed.

So, if you can elevate your status by claiming that thinking deep thoughts is superior to other human actions, you denigrate those other people and make yourself superior.

In your own eyes, anyhow...

But they're fun little creatures to tweak with.  I natter away about race cars and hunting and building my little roads in the desert--and then rip 'em up on a chess board.  And mention that I dropped out of Mensa on account of a lack of interest in deep thinkers' mental masturbation...

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CAnnoneer

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 07:55:46 PM »
In most worthy pursuits in life, words are not enough. Ergo, the wordsmith's general weakness. They are smart enough to know it, and it drives them mad with impotence and jealosy. That is why they are inherently wed to oppressive re-distributive socialist systems of government, which at least promise to prop them to a higher social standard than they can achieve on their own.

Laurent du Var

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2007, 03:33:28 AM »
And if you held a long speech against long speeches
you would  still be just holding a long speech.

Now if you're writing up words on an e-forum against
wordsmiths, well ...

Vada a bordo, Cazzo!

Iain

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2007, 03:34:06 AM »
carebear, in relation to this thread and the Sparta question, I'm going to try and say something very carefully. Don't read disdain for the military into my comments.

There are some potential legitimate concerns about a society that venerates the military above all others. I have problems viewing the fighting man as saintly warrior, without question, without taint. The vast vast (x lots) majority are good people, human beings. Some occasionally slip because they are human beings, and that isn't something that should be held against the institution or against anyone other than the individuals concerned, which is why 'babykiller' comments and protests aimed at intimidating and harrassing individuals soldiers, either now or during Vietnam were and are disgraceful.

There is a 'but' coming. I find the occasional slip disturbing as we all do, but I find the tendency of some to rush to the defence, to decry the possibility and then to apologise away even more disturbing. For instance Abu Ghraib - I found it interesting that oftentimes it was former military personnel on THR that were the most critical (of those that didn't demonstrate purely anti-war or anti-military tendencies). The apologists were often non-military. But, I also remember the nice threads on THR marking the passing of Hugh Thompson, Jr.

And before anyone leaps on me over Abu Ghraib and My Lai, I'll make it clear that using these two events I'm recounting my tentative thoughts on the military/civilian issue in the light of two extremely unusual, but perhaps watershed moments of recent history.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2007, 10:33:50 AM »
Iain,

I get your point and your nuance.

I don't think the author is stating that the military is or should be venerated above all others, he's merely pointing out that many ivory-tower type intellectuals don't grasp why society doesn't venerate THEM above all others.  He is bearing down on particulars within the larger question of why many intellectuals despise capitalism in general.

I think you are correct that the rule of civilian over military is crucial to our society's survival, but that is what even the Spartans were in the end fighting for.  Read Hanson's "Carnage and Culture" (I think in Britain/Europe it was titled "Why Western Armies Win"). He points out the diametrical difference between the then new democratic polities of Greece (democracy was only a couple centuries old) and the absolute totalitarianism of the Persians.

Our tradition of civilian control dates from those city-states fighting for their survival.  Immediately after a successful campaign, Greek military leaders, who were elected, then had to stand before the assembly and defend their choices and behavior.  As was said, in one case winning admirals were executed for not stopping after a battle to pull their survivors out of the water.  Generals were fined and censured for simply striking a troop, because all were equally free men of their city, not hierarchal superiors.

Had the Persians won, Western society (which is hardly perfect now and was still in its formative stage then) would likely look like much of the rest of the world, where dissenters are routinely (violently) silenced and military juntas feel free to displace governments of the people at will.
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"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

grampster

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2007, 11:42:11 AM »
Well, I haven't read any books about it, but as a lad my father taught me to pay attention to things.  As a result it has been my observation, over the last 60 or so years, the higher up the education ladder some folks go, up ramps the arrogance as well.  I've also noticed that some folks who are highly educated in a particular arena, seem to grant themselves the notion that their narrow expertise somehow gives them a wider grasp of all things. 

Maybe that's why those of the aforementioned ilk are called elitists.

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2007, 12:04:11 PM »
In most worthy pursuits in life, words are not enough. Ergo, the wordsmith's general weakness. They are smart enough to know it, and it drives them mad with impotence and jealosy. That is why they are inherently wed to oppressive re-distributive socialist systems of government, which at least promise to prop them to a higher social standard than they can achieve on their own.

That does explain why so many folks want to publish books, I suppose.  Because words are without power.

To me, there is a vast difference between an intellectual and a self-proclaimed intellectual.  I'd call folks like Einstein, Linus Torvald, Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkings "intellectuals".  One could say they did very little.  Einstein never physically built anything based on his theoretical work.  Same with Hawkings.  Sagan was famous for looking at the sky through warped glass.  Linus Torvald only wrote 2% of the Linux kernal at present.  

Their words and ideas made them famous and successful.  In a capitalist society no less.  Odd that.

A self-proclaimed intellectual with either a very low number of publications or a very high number of sub-par publications is the wanker you're referring to.  One that has accomplished very little with actions or words.  


Quote
There is a 'but' coming. I find the occasional slip disturbing as we all do, but I find the tendency of some to rush to the defence, to decry the possibility and then to apologise away even more disturbing. For instance Abu Ghraib - I found it interesting that oftentimes it was former military personnel on THR that were the most critical (of those that didn't demonstrate purely anti-war or anti-military tendencies). The apologists were often non-military. But, I also remember the nice threads on THR marking the passing of Hugh Thompson, Jr.


I can explain the former military thing.  Good soldiers (or airmen, or marines or whatever) did their jobs because they liked their job.  Civvie sector pays better.  A good soldier takes pride in his work, and often has a fair amount of honor.  These days, you only hear the term "honor" in movies or books.  It's actively discouraged in many areas.  Hearing some moron doing something blatantly sadistic, barbaric or dishonorable pisses off any decent veteran off to no end.  Why?  Because they're dishonoring sacred traditions and mucking up something much work was invested into on the part of the veteran.  Abu Ghraid prison was a prime example.  Rapists and torturers should be executed, according to US military tradition and the UCMJ.  Period.  Not given a couple years and a BCD.  

Nothing wrong with folks who never served.  Civvie apologists and arm chair commandos who never spent a day in uniform are common, and always have been.  You can often spot 'em a mile away because they're the most bloodthirsty and most eager for war, death and destruction.  They also tend to be quick on the draw to question patriotism of folks who disagree in a civil manner.  Anyone that has seen war, death or destruction has a bit more experience and knows it's not like the movies or books.  The deepest scars are ones that cannot be seen.
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Iain

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2007, 01:01:35 PM »
Iain,

I get your point and your nuance.
There was nuance?
Quote from: carebear
I don't think the author is stating that the military is or should be venerated above all others, he's merely pointing out that many ivory-tower type intellectuals don't grasp why society doesn't venerate THEM above all others.
I don't disagree that this was the author's point. I do worry though that distaste for an overly militaristic culture can be interpreted as dislike of the military.
Quote from: carebear
[a whole lot of ancient history and who cares about all that then]
The Sparta point was a bit of a throwaway comment based on me thinking a little about our exchange in the '300' thread. Basically all I meant was that given the choices today I'd rather not live in a country that is so focused on it's military that it practices infanticide on the weak. Of course those weren't always the choices, but there are little nagging thoughts about idealisation of the Spartan model, but it's just a film, it's just a film.

Revdisk - I was specifically thinking about your comments. They've always carried a lot of weight for me.
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CAnnoneer

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2007, 01:28:40 PM »
Quote
Because words are without power.

That's not what I said. Empty words are the venue of the type I described.

Quote
 I'd call folks like Einstein, Linus Torvald, Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkings "intellectuals".  One could say they did very little.  Einstein never physically built anything based on his theoretical work.  Same with Hawkings.  Sagan was famous for looking at the sky through warped glass.  Linus Torvald only wrote 2% of the Linux kernal at present. Their words and ideas made them famous and successful.  In a capitalist society no less.  Odd that.

Poor examples IMO. These are numbersmiths, some of whom (e.g. Sagan, and partly Hawking) also decided to do some wordsmithing.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2007, 01:35:25 PM »
Quote
Basically all I meant was that given the choices today I'd rather not live in a country that is so focused on it's military that it practices infanticide on the weak. Of course those weren't always the choices, but there are little nagging thoughts about idealisation of the Spartan model,

That there is "nuance", realization of the distinctions between the context of today and the context of yesteryear and even the details of each era.

Obviously Sparta's model wasn't the best in the world and clearly wasn't the best in Ancient Greece.

In fact, the victory at Salamis raised the status of the free rowers who actually did not have the vote in Athens at the time as they weren't "landed".  Once the rowers realized the debt owed them by their society they successfully pressed to have the franchise gradually extended to all free men, not just landed ones, eventually citizenship and the franchise could be extended to immigrants not born in Athens.  The now increased participatory Hellenic citizenry became even more effective at waging war and eventually dominated the Mediterranean scene.  Sparta, with its fairly small landed voting class and large groups of variously enfranchised semi-citizens and large group of helots didn't adapt and progress on the road of democracy and freedom and gradually faded in power as more cities sought to emulate (and become allied to) the successful Hellenic model.

Though, at the time of Thermopylae, you were better off even as a Spartan helot, who could not be slain out of hand without repercussion, than as any member of Persian society, of whatever rank, who could be slain by dictate of the king at will.  If you posit being an actual citizen or semi-citizen of any of the Greek cities, including Sparta, the only Persian who matched your personal freedom was Xerxes himself.
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CAnnoneer

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2007, 01:40:14 PM »
Quote
Basically all I meant was that given the choices today I'd rather not live in a country that is so focused on it's military that it practices infanticide on the weak. Of course those weren't always the choices, but there are little nagging thoughts about idealisation of the Spartan model,

That was not a Spartan trait only. The ancient Greeks believed in "A sound mind in a sound body". If one is unsound, the other is expected to be (eventually) warped as well.

RevDisk

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2007, 02:33:48 PM »
Quote
Because words are without power.

That's not what I said. Empty words are the venue of the type I described.

Ah, I misunderstood, my apologies.


Quote
Quote
 I'd call folks like Einstein, Linus Torvald, Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkings "intellectuals".  One could say they did very little.  Einstein never physically built anything based on his theoretical work.  Same with Hawkings.  Sagan was famous for looking at the sky through warped glass.  Linus Torvald only wrote 2% of the Linux kernal at present. Their words and ideas made them famous and successful.  In a capitalist society no less.  Odd that.

Poor examples IMO. These are numbersmiths, some of whom (e.g. Sagan, and partly Hawking) also decided to do some wordsmithing.

Numbersmiths in profession.  But outside their profession, they were were known for their words.  Unless you're a math geek, Einstein and Hawkings were known for how they phrased their theories, not the math in which they are based.  Their words more than their math made them the legends they are today.  Linus, his personality and ideology, made him a legend.  (Don't mess with his wife either, six time Finnish national karate champ.)  Aside from people who stare at the sky all night, Sagan was best known for his books.
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The Rabbi

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2007, 03:26:53 PM »
Wow, I see lots of gross generalizations.  It is true that some people in academia hate the military.  It is also true that some people in academia are themselves products of the military.  ROTC was banned at Harvard (which I think got reversed in some court case recently--my memory is fuzzy here).  But ROTC was a regular part of campus life at my own Vanderbilt U in the 1980s.
More interesting is whether the "professionalization" of the military has not led to a divide between "citizens" and "soldiers" that would have been unrecognizable to my father's WW2 generation.  I also suspect there is plenty of elitism in the military as well.
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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2007, 03:31:02 PM »
There are an awful lot of people who attempt to promote themselves upward in real or imaginary hierarchies by kicking those they perceive as below themselves. Some of them actually rise to apparent high social and/or business and/or plitical status, (one thinks of Snopes Clinton and his lovely wife,) but they remain despicable people.

I have a hunch they know, or at least sense they're despicable, and hate all the harder in attempted compensation.
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RevDisk

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2007, 04:13:42 PM »
Wow, I see lots of gross generalizations.  It is true that some people in academia hate the military.  It is also true that some people in academia are themselves products of the military.  ROTC was banned at Harvard (which I think got reversed in some court case recently--my memory is fuzzy here).  But ROTC was a regular part of campus life at my own Vanderbilt U in the 1980s.
More interesting is whether the "professionalization" of the military has not led to a divide between "citizens" and "soldiers" that would have been unrecognizable to my father's WW2 generation.  I also suspect there is plenty of elitism in the military as well.

The recent Harvard thing was over the military's stance on homosexuality.  The Harvard ROTC stance actually goes back to Vietnam, and is about 37 years old.  Generally, most ROTC activities are held at MIT.  It is privately funded by alumni, mostly transportation expenses from what I understand.

ROTC at Millersville U, my old college, just was.  Small detachment, but usually didn't get second glances.  Most annoying student 'attitude' was asking to take my photo whenever I was transporting crew served weapons across campus.  You'd think people would tweak out if they saw some guy in jeans walking around campus with a SAW or two.  PAARNG was very supportive.  A local armory provided weapons, and an AVN outfit at FTIG provided airborne support.  Aircraft and pilots need x number of flight hours per month, which could be spent either flying in a circle or buzzing our campus.  God only knows how many conspiracy theories were cooked by the local potheads regarding the number of 'black' helos once a month dispite the photos in the school paper.  We often used the football field as our LZ.  I maintained the crew serves.  (ie, cleaned em as part of the loan deal.)  I stopped volunteering because most of the cadets were freaking morons and I was growing more horrified at the concept that these folks could issue me legal orders after graduation.  I was volunteering my own time to teach them, and nothing was sinking in.

As for elitism, yep.  Rightly so in some cases.  Compared to the Army back in the Vietnam era, today's soldiers are far better trained in most regards.  One of my sarges (forcibly retired when he hit 60 couple years) was drafted in.  There is no comparison between training today and what he received.  The US body count in Iraq reflects that.  Aside from IED's, almost any firefight is insanely lopsided.  The common soldier these days can do multiple jobs that previously would have been specialized.  When I looked at my classmates in college, I did feel superior.  Thus far in their lives, the overwhelming majority had literally done nothing significant in their life.  Most had never done hard labor, risked their necks (aside from drinking), went hungry, or did anything memorable.  The majority went straight from HS to college, with Mommy and Daddy footing the bill.  I did respect those paying their way.  Working a job and going to classes is not easy.  I know it's egotistic, but it's hard not to roll one's eyes when you had to listen to these kids drone on about their opinions when they had literally seen nothing in life, had no real world experience and had their parents footing the bill.

"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

CAnnoneer

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2007, 04:26:56 PM »
Quote
Numbersmiths in profession.  But outside their profession, they were were known for their words. 

Yes, but in this thread, we started talking about who they are and what their resulting psychology is, not what they became famous for among the general public. That is in keeping with the original argument about the differences between wordsmiths and numbersmiths. Some numbersmiths can be successful as wordsmiths as well, if they possess the necessary eloquence. Generally, the reverse is not true.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2007, 05:49:22 PM »
Rev,

Would it be out of line in your eyes to describe how many in the military view those who haven't served, but feel superior to those who do/have, as bemusement tinged with annoyance?  In contrast to active disdain or anger I mean.

I never saw combat but I have 13 years in the Marine Corps.  When I hear folks, especially college kids with zero life experience, who never served at all, passionately describe (their perceptions) of the motivations and thoughts of those who do and did serve I can get annoyed at being "told how I think" but more likely I just (metaphorically) shake my head and mutter you poor, ignorant clown.  Which is elitism, but harmless.

I served so all folks (myself included) could feel free to express themselves publically.  If they want to show themselves foolish while doing so, well I served for that right as well.

I don't see many military professionals, who tend to be more than a little aware of the necessity of ultimate civilian control in a Republic, being "elitist" in any way dangerous to the nation.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

RevDisk

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2007, 06:40:08 PM »
Rev,

Would it be out of line in your eyes to describe how many in the military view those who haven't served, but feel superior to those who do/have, as bemusement tinged with annoyance?  In contrast to active disdain or anger I mean.

I can only speak for myself.  Bemusement.  Annoyance reserved for those that that criticize the patriotic zeal of folks who disagree with the status quo.  Anger is reserved for the terminally stupid banging on Darwin's door screaming, "Take me in!"  Active disdain for people that refer to Nasty Ice as beer.


Quote
I never saw combat but I have 13 years in the Marine Corps.  When I hear folks, especially college kids with zero life experience, who never served at all, passionately describe (their perceptions) of the motivations and thoughts of those who do and did serve I can get annoyed at being "told how I think" but more likely I just (metaphorically) shake my head and mutter you poor, ignorant clown.  Which is elitism, but harmless.

I served so all folks (myself included) could feel free to express themselves publically.  If they want to show themselves foolish while doing so, well I served for that right as well.

I don't see many military professionals, who tend to be more than a little aware of the necessity of ultimate civilian control in a Republic, being "elitist" in any way dangerous to the nation.

More or less, I completely agree.  Everyone has a right to their opinion.  I have a right to make opinions about persons and share them too.  If someone is stupid, I have no problem believing or vocalizing it.  Preferably in a tactful manner, and explaining why I feel so.  Most of my friends do so also, especially regarding my dating life.   grin

Na, not dangerous for the most part.  There's always a handful of bad apples in any crowd, of course. 

As for civilian control of the republic, I DID prepare a powerpoint presentation briefing for my CO on why my oath of enlistment says I should start a revolution.  He said No.  The Major also turned down my request to mutiny.  Sigh. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Why Intellectuals hate the military - interesting article
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2007, 07:07:59 PM »
Quote
As for civilian control of the republic, I DID prepare a powerpoint presentation briefing for my CO on why my oath of enlistment says I should start a revolution.  He said No.  The Major also turned down my request to mutiny.  Sigh. 


 grin

I suppose those would end up on "Skippy's List".

http://www.skippyslist.com/skippylist.html

One of our CO's (D. Storm vet) when asked in a Law of War class what he would do if Pres. Clinton ordered us to confiscate civilian arms, replied that he would immediately draw our ammo allowance, open the armory, issue everything out and wish us well as we headed for the hills.

I kinda liked that image.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."