Grains used for Ethanol is excellent animal feed after the ethanol is made.

[Desertdog]

Since Distillers grain is left over from the production of Ethanol, why do they keep telling us the price of animal products is going out of sight because of the grains being used for ethanol production.  From what I have read the amount of grain residue after being distilled is the same amount of grain as they started with, only better than it was originally.




Distillers Grains
http://www.distillersgrains.org/grains/

Distillers grains has a long history of being recognized as a highly nutritious animal feed ingredient. Unique in that it is the only fermented feed ingredient from the dry mill fuel or beverage ethanol process.

Its outstanding features are:

Starch Removed
Fermentation Process
High Fiber
Dried Yeast Cell Content
All Natural Process
FDA Food Grade
Highly Digestible Protein(85%)
Concentrated Grain Nutrients
Bypass Protein
Essential Minerals
Please feel free to browse our site and learn more about distillers grains. If you have an questions you can contact us via our contact page.

DAIRY CATTLE
http://www.distillersgrains.org/files/feedsource/dairy_brochure.pdf

DISTILLERS DRIED GRAINS WITH SOLUBLES (DDGS)
LOW COST, HIGH PROTEIN, HIGH ENERGY FEEDSTUFF
Distillers grains provides a unique and nutritious feed ingredient for the high milk producingdairy cow. To achieve and maintain high milk production requires feeding high bypass protein,
digestible fiber and fat ingredients like distillers grains. This results in outstanding feeding values
for dairy cattle:
1. High Protein (26-28%) and High Energy (0.92 NEl, Mcal/lb) - components that cows
need for higher milk production.
2. Bypass Protein (55% of crude protein) - increased utilization of protein that increases
milk production plus lower cost than soybean meal.
3. Starch Removed - reduces potential of high energy rations to cause acidosis (lower feed
consumption due to low rumen pH).
4. Yeast Fermentation - product contains dried yeast cells (3-5%) that provides B vitamins
and promotes palatability and increased feed consumption.
5. Highly Digestible Fiber (44% NDF) - increased nutrition, energy and stimulates
rumen micro-organisms that improve fiber digestion.
6. Methionine Advantage - higher methionine content offers opportunity to blend with
lower methionine soybean meal for a more balanced feed.
7. Unsaturated Fat Content (9%) - typically readily digestible corn oil.
8. Organic Phosphorous Content (0.7-0.9%) - a readily available low cost source
of phosphorous for dairy cattle.
AVAILABILITY
Dried distillers grains with solubles (DDGS) is the most common commercial co-product of the
ethanol producing dry mill distilleries. This feed ingredient is readily available in that approximately
five million tons are produced yearly. After the distillery removes all the ethanol, the
residual grain solubles and insoluble portion are dried enabling complete recovery; and thereby,
there is three times concentration of protein, fat, fiber, etc. of the original whole grain without the
starch. Yeast cells from the fermentation are also dried in the final product. The DDGS are
identified by the type of natural whole grain from which they are made, i.e. corn DDGS, milo
DDGS or other grains (wheat or rye). DDGS are available by truck, railroad car or barge year
round. Information and sources of supply are available from Distillers Grains Technology Council
(DGTC), whose members produce consistent high quality products.

[thebaldguy]

When I worked at a brewery years ago, farmers came and took the spent brewing grain for feed. We didn't have to pay to have it hauled away, and farmers got free feed. It was a win-win deal.

[The Annoyed Man]

There may be a, um, er, greenhouse gas penalty.  A simile still much used in other parts of the world is "Farting like a brewery horse." 

[Gewehr98]

They also don't mention that as we grow extra corn for ethanol, we get to keep the silage...

[charby]

I live about 12 miles from a large ethanol plant and I am wondering why the hell isn't there some dairy operation or feed lot nearby to consume all the distillers grain. They could feed it wet to cattle and probably even pump it down a pipeline a few miles if folks complained about a CAFO being next to town.

With the dairy operation you could have a dairy near it produce milk and other dairy products. Take the animal manure and digest it to make methane to add to the fuel consumption of the ethanol process and what is left is some nice compost that could go back to the fields where the grain was harvested from.

The greenies should love that since it reduces greenhouse gases, reduce independence on oil, local food source, etc.

[Gewehr98]

We've been getting the distiller's dry grains trucked back to our farms, but it is a good question, Charby. 

[GigaBuist]

There has to be something lacking from the spent grain.  It's still useful but I'd wager it can't be used as a 100% substitute.  Some sugars are obviously missing.

[Gewehr98]

It's the proteins we're after - sugar is inconsequential, and DDG isn't a 100% ration replacement for cattle, contrary to popular belief.  More here:

http://www.ksgrains.com/ethanol/DDGSFacts.pdf

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Does anyone know how much distiller's grain you get from each bushel of corn processed at an ethanol plant?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?

If you can get just as much feed out a bushel of corn processed at an ethanol plant as you'd get from the bushel of corn directly, then I can see the point of the original article. 

But...

My suspicion is that the production of ehtanol consumes a significant amount of the corn.  Sure, you get some distiller's grain out of the back of the ethanol plant.  That's all well and good.  But there are veritable train-loads of corn going into the front of the plant.  Do you get just as many train-loads of distiller's grain out of the back of the ethanol plant?

[lee n. field]

Since Distillers grain is left over from the production of Ethanol, why do they keep telling us the price of animal products is going out of sight because of the grains being used for ethanol production.

That is true, but to make ethanol, you take something out of the corn.  No free lunch.  Less food value to the residue than there was in the raw product. 

[roo_ster]

The rise in price of corn is due to 20-25% of it going to ethanol.

The rise in price of other grains is due to folks switching from those other grains to corn.

The rise in the price of animal products is due to the above two phenomena, as corn is not the only grain fed to critters.

[Gewehr98]

Does anyone know how much distiller's grain you get from each bushel of corn processed at an ethanol plant?

Google is your friend. Really.

(Unless you're trying to do a Wooderson thing...)

The rise in the price of animal products is due to the above two phenomena, as corn is not the only grain fed to critters.

Exactly.  I swear I'm gonna invite every armchair cattle rancher over some weekend and have them watch how it works firsthand... 

[Gewehr98]

The rise in price of corn is due to 20-25% of it going to ethanol.

Sources, please. 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Does anyone know how much distiller's grain you get from each bushel of corn processed at an ethanol plant?

Google is your friend. Really.

(Unless you're trying to do a Wooderson thing...)

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.  I don't much care about the absolute quantity if distillers grain you get from a bushel of corn.  That info (about 17 pounds DDG per bushel corn) is readily available but completely useless.

What I need to know is the livestock-feeding potential.  How many "cow-days" worth of food do you get from a given quantity of distillers grains?  How many cow-days of food do you get from a bushel of corn?  There is plenty of way-too-in-depth information on distillers grain nutritional content, diet ratios, supplements, and whatnot.  No doubt that sort of info is very valuable to someone raising cattle, but not to me.  I don't much understand the minutiae of cow nutrition, and I don't care to learn. 

I need a simple executive summary, and google doesn't readily offer one up.  Thus I ask here, secure in the knowledge that APS knows everything.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Well, having devoted far more effort than it's worth, I think I maybe kinda, sorta have an answer to my question.

This study...
http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/fieldcrops/mp51.htm
...says the following:

In the fermentation of corn to produce alcohol, the starch in the corn is converted to alcohol and carbon dioxide. The nutrients in the corn other than starch are concentrated about three times because corn is about two-thirds starch. Even though starch is high in energy, the one-third of the corn remaining in the byproduct after fermentation contains as much energy per pound as did the corn from which it was produced. Two-thirds of the total weight of the corn is lost but the concentration of energy in corn and distillers byproducts is similar. This energy is mainly in the form of protein, fiber and fat.

That seems to indicate that 2/3 of the overall food-potential of a bushel of corn is lost in the production of ethanol.  If true, the premise of the original post is false.  Every bushel of corn turned into ethanol represents 2/3 of a bushel of livestock feed taken out of circulation.  Ethanol does indeed contribute to the rising cost of animal products.

Of course, common sense would tell you this is so.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  Conservation of mass and conservation of energy won't be cheated.  But as is typical of pro-ethanol propaganda, they trumpet the happy details of an overall unpleasant situation.

Go ethanol!  Go America!

 

[roo_ster]

The rise in price of corn is due to 20-25% of it going to ethanol.

Sources, please. 

I was conservative, as the proportion was 27% in 2007, projected to be 30% by 2012.
http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN1149215820070611

"Using more corn for energy production will likely exert additional upward pressure on corn prices, potentially influencing livestock feed markets and meat prices," the GAO said in a report to Congress.

About 27 percent of this year's corn crop will be used to make ethanol, according to the Agriculture Department. Corn prices are projected to average between $3 and $3.40 a bushel, making up an estimated 74 percent of the cost of producing ethanol, the GAO said.

HTG:
Your analysis is in the ballpark.  Another way to look at it is that every BTU/calorie produced as ethanol, is a BTU/calorie that won't go in some cow/hog/hen belly.

[Firethorn]

HTG:
Your analysis is in the ballpark.  Another way to look at it is that every BTU/calorie produced as ethanol, is a BTU/calorie that won't go in some cow/hog/hen belly.

From reading the link to the distiller's grain feeding description, while distiller's grain might not have as many calories, it does have a very high nutritional content.  So you can feed it to a cow in a certain proportion and pad the difference using other feed sources  that are higher calorie but lower nutritional.  It helps that the cow can digest stuff for calories that the yeast can't.

Still, I don't think that corn ethanol is anywhere near a 'final answer'.  I'm more voting for cellulostic ethanol, and creative solutions like bacteria/algae growth farms in the desert using saltwater(by preference).  As long as you're pumping seawater, might as well capture the salt and sell that too.

[xavier fremboe]

Since Distillers grain is left over from the production of Ethanol, why do they keep telling us the price of animal products is going out of sight because of the grains being used for ethanol production.

That is true, but to make ethanol, you take something out of the corn.  No free lunch.  Less food value to the residue than there was in the raw product. 

Sugar is used to produce the alcohol.  Yeast eat the sugar, pee alcohol and fart CO₂.  If you distill it, you're still going to have almost all of the protein left in the main boiler.  If nothing else, the grain makes good fertilizer. I used to dump my flavoring grains in the garden when homebrewing.

[charby]

Putting a bovine on a straight corn diet isn't exactly the healthiest thing you can do. Cows are designed for a grass diet. Shoving corn into a cow is what gives us the marbled steaks people seem to desire. I've never had 100% grass fed beef so I can't give an opinion on taste but I do prefer a mix of hay and grass fed cattle. I worked for a beef cattle farmer and also a dairy farmer when I was younger.

The beef farmer fed probably 5 lbs of corn per day per cattle and they were allowed all the hay, grass and water they desired. He also placed out a free feeding mineral feeder. He doctored only when needed, usually a shot of penicillin if any of the bovines had obvious cuts or were blowing snot. He raised Holsteins (dairy bull calves) and Black White face (Holstein/Angus cross) His steaks were awesome!

The dairy farmer fed close the same amount of grain (corn, oats and molasses mix), 10-15 lbs of wet sugar beat pulp and all the hay, grass and water the cows wanted. He raised Jersey cattle and I'm not sure what the milk production per day per animal was. I just milked them.

I think distiller grains fit the same thing that sugar beat pulp was, the starches/sugar was removed and protein was left. I do think it is a better solution than feeding cattle protein from poultry and porcine sources.