15% ethanol in fuel

[bedlamite]

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/10/13/general-us-epa-ethanol_8010407.html?boxes=marketschannelwires

Looks like it's coming.

Fortunately I can still get fuel locally with no ethanol in it, but I wonder how long that will last.

[Harold Tuttle]

"Thorough testing has now shown that E15 does not harm emissions control equipment in newer cars and light trucks," EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson said in a statement. "Wherever sound science and the law support steps to allow more homegrown fuels in America's vehicles, this administration takes those steps."

or "FU" if you have an older, paid for vehicle

[bedlamite]

or "FU" if you have an older, paid for vehicle

It gets worse. Ethanol production still takes more energy to produce than you get out of it, is subsidized to make it profitable enough so that agribusiness will actually produce it, artificially raises the price of feed corn, and even 10% ethanol lowers your fuel mileage by about 5%. It's hygroscopic, so even if your fuel system is designed for ethanol you can still expect water in your tank.

You know something is up when both environmentalists and the auto industry agree on something.

[lupinus]

15% is the MAX most vehicles are designed to handle. Somehow I think cars getting up there are still going to handle that well. That and the fact that you get reduced gas mileage. The whole E85 thing blew over pretty quick when people saw such steep drops in fuel economy when using it.

Next they'll mandate all new production vehicles be "flex fuel" though.

[Tuco]

They've been mixing it up to 90/10 for years.

Pretty much gotta go to a certain Exxon or CITGO around here to get "no corn", and that may have changed since I last checked.

If you're stuck feeding an older ride E-85, throw about a quart of ATF in for every 20 gallons.  It'll keep things nice and clean and slick and all the seals nice & seal-like.

[bedlamite]

They've been mixing it up to 90/10 for years.

Only because that's about the maximum they can go without destroying standard fuel system components.

[Brad Johnson]

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/10/13/general-us-epa-ethanol_8010407.html?boxes=marketschannelwires

Looks like it's coming.

Fortunately I can still get fuel locally with no ethanol in it, but I wonder how long that will last.

If it says"oxygenated" it has ethanol in it whether it's listed like that on the pump or not.

It's hygroscopic, so even if your fuel system is designed for ethanol you can still expect water in your tank.

Actually you won't, not as a seperate liquid anyway.

Brad

[zahc]

I'm unaware of anywhere here in Dallas where one can buy plain old gasoline. Everything is 10%. If anyone knows of a place, let me know.

[bedlamite]

If it says"oxygenated" it has ethanol in it whether it's listed like that on the pump or not.

Um, no. Short list of the most common Oxygenates:
    *  methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE)
    * tert-amyl methyl ether (TAME)
    * diisopropyl ether (DIPE)
    * ethyl tert-butyl ether (ETBE)
    * tert-amyl alcohol (TAA)
    * tert-butyl alcohol (TBA)
    * ethanol

Actually you won't, not as a seperate liquid anyway.

Let a larger tank of it sit for a while. I helped a friend get a tractor going that was sitting for a few months inside his shed. It was running fine when he filled it up with 10% and parked it. There was about a half gallon of water in the bottom of the tank.

[Brad Johnson]

Let a larger tank of it sit for a while. I helped a friend get a tractor going that was sitting for a few months inside his shed. It was running fine when he filled it up with 10% and parked it. There was about a half gallon of water in the bottom of the tank.

Water was condensing in fuel tanks long before blended fuels became the norm.  If you had water seperated at the bottom of the tank either A) it wasn't an ethanol blend or B) moisture was condensing in the tank faster than it could be adsorbed or C) the solution had reached saturation and water was still condensing.  In any case it wasn't the alcohol's fault.  It was a case of humidity, temparature variations, and a partially filled metal tank.  Vehicles stored for long periods should have their tanks completely filled to minimize vapor space and tank wall exposure.  Not doing so is a virtual 100% guarantee of water in your fuel, especially in places with high humidity and wide temp variations.  When I was a kid draining fuel bowls on all the tractors was just something you did every year getting ready for the season.

As for oxygenates, agreed.  Ethanol is not the only one.  It is, however, the most common.  MTBE used to be but has been demonized to near non-use.  Other alcohols can be n-butanol and t-butanol but you don't see them used much.

Brad

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Right.  Because 10% isn't stupid enough.

Local farm radio is complaining that EPA should have waited until they'd decided E15 was safe for all model years before allowing it to be sold at the pumps.  The thinking is that by only certifying E15 safe for new cars, people might come to think it's somehow inferior to real gasoline.  

And we can't have that.  

[MillCreek]

Lots and lots of comments on the motorcycle boards about keeping E15 out of motorcycles, outboard motors and small gas engines.  It is not supposed to do them any good.

[charby]

It gets worse. Ethanol production still takes more energy to produce than you get out of it,

Not true, used to be back in the 1970's but technology for ethanol distillation has gotten more efficient.

I also drive a 2002 Nissan Frontier with a supercharger and through running different ethanol blends this summer 10%-30% I have found that 20% give me better overall mpg and seems to be the most responsive performance wise. I'll probably go back to 10% ethanol over winter for better starting.

-C

[Hawkmoon]

or "FU" if you have an older, paid for vehicle

^^^ This.

[Jim147]

I know since '95 I have gotten as good or better mpg out of Casey's 10% compared to their regular no lead. Around here it's the same price for 3 or 4 octane points more.

I don't get any of it for my 2 stroke motors. It's hard enough to keep those carb's working adding sta-bil and MMO.

jim

[Boomhauer]

"Thorough testing has now shown that E15 does not harm emissions control equipment in newer cars and light trucks," EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson said in a statement. "Wherever sound science and the law support steps to allow more homegrown fuels in America's vehicles, this administration takes those steps."

or "FU" if you have an older, paid for vehicle

Remember that the Feds and union controlled GM and Chrysler are bestest buddies now. Remember cash for clunkers. Remember that doing the responsible thing (i.e., driving an older, paid for vehicle) is bad but going in debt for a new vehicle is good.

[Sergeant Bob]

Not true, used to be back in the 1970's but technology for ethanol distillation has gotten more efficient.
-C

And yet it is still subsidized with taxpayer dollars. Sorta negates any perceived benefits.