Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on February 24, 2017, 10:39:53 AM
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... render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto the Lord that which is the Lord's.
I have always understood that to mean that we are supposed to follow secular law where it applies, and Biblical "law" where that applies.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/23/us/california-immigrant-safe-houses/
So what part of Biblical law tells us to intentionally violate federal law and hide illegal aliens from the ICE?
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There is a point where following bad law is ethically abhorrent and good people should disobey.
Currnet US Immigration law is not in that category.
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Agree on both points.
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Uhm... you are your brother's keeper?
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Uhm... you are your brother's keeper?
That's actually NOT a commandment (Obama's belief notwithstanding), but even if it were, being "my brother's keeper" does not translate into "aiding and abetting him in committing a crime."
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I never said it was a commandment.
I'll also point out that this isn't a commandment, either...
"render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto the Lord that which is the Lord's."
As for aiding and abetting, remember, not everyone has the same view of various infractions...
I'll give these people marks for exercising their consciences, even if I don't agree with those actions.
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I'll give these people marks for exercising their consciences, even if I don't agree with those actions.
I feel the same way. Kind of like the folks who hid the Jews from the Nazi's
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I feel the same way. Kind of like the folks who hid the Jews from the Nazi's
Slightly different. Trump is only sending illegals back where they came from. The Nazis were exterminating people who were citizens.
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Slightly different. Trump is only sending illegals back where they came from. The Nazis were exterminating people who were citizens.
Conscience is conscience.
Remember these words?
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it..."
And that little faldarah was primarily over taxes...
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I'll also point out that this isn't a commandment, either...
"render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto the Lord that which is the Lord's."
Uh - do you mean not a commandment, as in not handed down from Sinai? Or do you mean not a commandment, as in Jesus was only spit-balling so don't take Him seriously on that one? 'Cause it does look like something He was telling us to do, and not just witty repartee. (Though it was that, too.)
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Uhm... you are your brother's keeper?
Yep, and I want to keep the my brother safe by having strong borders and a people that respect the rule of law.
Economic migrants aren't refugees.
If you are a true refugee you don't break into the country illegally. You apply for asylum.
It's the American way for both previous immigrants who are now Americans and future American wannabees.
How many economic migrants are enough before the open borders folks say enough?
Probably just enough to ensure the permanent Democratic majority is let in and safely ensconced in the cocoon of the welfare state.
How about they practice their religion or compassion with somebody elses country?
How about having some compassion for the folks in the country right now, ya know, Americans.
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... render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto the Lord that which is the Lord's.
I have always understood that to mean that we are supposed to follow secular law where it applies, and Biblical "law" where that applies.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/23/us/california-immigrant-safe-houses/
So what part of Biblical law tells us to intentionally violate federal law and hide illegal aliens from the ICE?
Because confused people think that Joseph and Mary were refugees and that Jesus wants his commandments enforced by the government, unless it has anything to do with your genitals.
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Because confused people think that Joseph and Mary were refugees and that Jesus wants his commandments enforced by the government, unless it has anything to do with your genitals.
In fairness, they could be compared to modern-day refugees when they fled Herod's realm for Egypt. Presumably, Pharaoh Trump wasn't talking about deporting them, or buidling a wall. I guess Israel was no longer on Egypt's Terror Watch List Axis of Divine-Wrath-on-the-Firstborn.
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Slightly different. Trump is only sending illegals back where they came from. The Nazis were exterminating people who were citizens.
Some of them are coming from areas where people there do want to kill them.
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Some of them are coming from areas where people there do want to kill them.
How many oppressed/persecuted/threatened third worlders should we let in?
Until we reach 15% of our total population, 20%, 30%? Oh wait, we're practically at 30% already since 1965. We've already absorbed a record number of immigrants since 1965 without pause.
Where does it end?
Do you agree with Bill Kristol that the legacy white Americans need to be replaced by new Americans?
Who does the USA exist for? US citizens? potential US citizens? The world? The governing class?
What do you call the demographic replacement of a population of a nations founding people? Why is that even a government policy?
Open borders for you, gated communities for the oligarchy.
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How many oppressed/persecuted/threatened third worlders should we let in?
Until we reach 15% of our total population, 20%, 30%? Oh wait, we're practically at 30% already since 1965. We've already absorbed a record number of immigrants since 1965 without pause.
Where does it end?
Do you agree with Bill Kristol that the legacy white Americans need to be replaced by new Americans?
Who does the USA exist for? US citizens? potential US citizens? The world? The governing class?
What do you call the demographic replacement of a population of a nations founding people? Why is that even a government policy?
Open borders for you, gated communities for the oligarchy.
How about we punish the folks who employee undocumented worker in a way that is extremely painful. Raise the ceiling on dollar amounts for the H2B by job class. Also double or triple the quarters to be "vested" in social security/disability.
Go after the easy reasons why folks come her for economic gains, this would still allow for approved refugees and legal immigration.
Also I don't believe in keeping this white American legacy. We are all humans, not a mixed species.
If we left it just to the European dissent to keep our population growing, we would be looking like Japan right now.
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How about we punish the folks who employee undocumented worker in a way that is extremely painful. Raise the ceiling on dollar amounts for the H2B by job class. Also double or triple the quarters to be "vested" in social security/disability.
Go after the easy reasons why folks come her for economic gains, this would still allow for approved refugees and legal immigration.
I agree with you
Also I don't believe in keeping this white American legacy. We are all humans, not a mixed species.
If we left it just to the European dissent to keep our population growing, we would be looking like Japan right now.
That is fine with me, it isn't realistic to try and get back to 95% white European descent.
But that still doesn't answer the question about who this countries government is supposed to be protecting. I don't conflate the economies numbers with the people.
The economy has done fine for some people but not for those in flyover (mostly white and legacy Americans), hence Trump.
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Ron & charby, you're neither of you being very clear about what you mean with this "white legacy" stuff.
Found a source for Kristol's comments:
http://www.publiusforum.com/2017/02/12/replace-white-working-class-mexican-immigrants-says-weekly-standard-editor-bill-kristol/
I can see where Kristol is coming from, but he's nuts. I mean, sure, there are many good qualities among our immigrant friends, but come on.
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Some of them are coming from areas where people there do want to kill them.
Right now, they are prioritizing ones who have committed crimes here. Why should we care?
One comment I heard a while back is: Americans generally have a very liberal view toward immigrants because they don't border a country like India or Pakistan. If we did, people would have a different view.
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I would also add, when did the refugee system start? Wasn't it mostly a Cold War thing to let in victims of Commie oppression? At this point, I don't know why we let any in. I would rather just give them guns and send them back where they came from.
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Ron & charby, you're neither of you being very clear about what you mean with this "white legacy" stuff.
Just a snarky way of referring to the founding fathers posterity. You know, the people the constitution and country was actually set up for and left to.
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Some of them are coming from areas where people there do want to kill them.
Those can apply for asylum.
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How about we punish the folks who employee undocumented worker in a way that is extremely painful. Raise the ceiling on dollar amounts for the H2B by job class. Also double or triple the quarters to be "vested" in social security/disability.
Go after the easy reasons why folks come her for economic gains, this would still allow for approved refugees and legal immigration.
Also I don't believe in keeping this white American legacy. We are all humans, not a mixed species.
If we left it just to the European dissent to keep our population growing, we would be looking like Japan right now.
How about we just eliminate H2B visas, and just enforce the immigration laws -- meaning, you don't immigrate unless/until you get a visa? I haven't heard anyone say they are anti-immigration -- it's ILLEGAL immigration that's the problem.
And let's not forget that being here as an "illegal" (there's that word again) is, by definition, a crime. ALL illegal aliens are criminals.
Lastly, why do we need to keep our population growing?
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I agree with youThat is fine with me, it isn't realistic to try and get back to 95% white European descent.
But that still doesn't answer the question about who this countries government is supposed to be protecting. I don't conflate the economies numbers with the people.
The economy has done fine for some people but not for those in flyover (mostly white and legacy Americans), hence Trump.
Sorry for the no reply, norovirus hit me Friday night, finally feeling better.
So of the flyover isn't coming back unless there is something drastic changed at the federal level. I'm not talking the old factory towns, but small towns in agricultural areas. Farm programs starting in the 1960s started that trend, farm lending went from small local banks to government backed lending, push was made for farmers to go from livestock and crops to just row crops or large scale confinements. Diversity was gone from ag. Used to be much of the corn from farms stayed on the farms as feed and what little surplus there was was sold to the feed mill or local elevator. Yes, yields did improve a lot in the 1960s but government meddled and now farmers were selling grain and buying their grain back as feed so they can take advantage of the commodity/insurance/subisidy programs.
What does this mean, well the small town banks started closing up because the control of the money switched, this lead to less of a reason for folks to come to town. Also feed mills shut down, slaughter houses closed or got bought up by bigger outfits, giant grain elevatators began to appear, livestock auction houses disappeared because the packing industry went to contract buying, etc.
So small towns got smaller, hardware stores closed, restaurants closed, etc.
in the Midwest 80's ag crisis happened, it was like 2007 for many Midwestern states. Small towns lost their small equipment manufacturing base due to the buyers having not money or equipment was too small for the bigger producers who weathered the crisis.
Also the packing house unions were busted about that time, so wages went from a decent living to crap. Have you noticed a big change in price for meat from the 1980's to now? Also the big packing houses moved from urban areas to more rural areas where they can be closer to the livestock producers but also could pay a lot less because there were a lot of out of work people in the rural areas.
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How about we just eliminate H2B visas, and just enforce the immigration laws -- meaning, you don't immigrate unless/until you get a visa? I haven't heard anyone say they are anti-immigration -- it's ILLEGAL immigration that's the problem.
And let's not forget that being here as an "illegal" (there's that word again) is, by definition, a crime. ALL illegal aliens are criminals.
Lastly, why do we need to keep our population growing?
Be easier to go after the employers, then the incentive to illegally immigrate is reduced.
There is a need to H2B visas, but they need to stop being abused because people don't want to pay market wages for talent.
If you need certain skilled workers, they you should pay market wages, if not your company is not as successful are you think it is, perhaps pay your management team a little less?
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I agree with youThat is fine with me, it isn't realistic to try and get back to 95% white European descent.
How about just getting back to 95% who speak English and consider the United States of America to be the country to which they pledge allegiance?
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How about just getting back to 95% who speak English and consider the United States of America to be the country to which they pledge allegiance?
I'm all for English being the only language the government uses for business, English as the official language all the way.
The more the Trump and the nationalist sentiment win the more people will be attracted to true patriotism.
The leftist press, along with the establishment, have rejected nationalist patriotism and have been working overtime trying to redefine the meaning of patriotism to mean believing in universal egalitarianism.
A nation has borders, language and a people who share a distinct culture. Supporting those three things is patriotism.
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I'm all for English being the only language the government uses for business, English as the official language all the way.
Absolutely. Especially considering what groups get 95% of the language assistance. Outside of very, very small geographic areas that might have, generally local gov non-English documentation available for immigrants like Hmong or whoever, all the "diverse language assistance" is pretty mono-cultured to south of the border.
It's funny how the coastal elite always rave about "immersive learning" for when they want to learn Italian or French or whatever, but somehow immersive learning is a bad idea for Mexicans, and we have to let them do all their business in their native tongue (often to the second and third generation).
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Absolutely. Especially considering what groups get 95% of the language assistance. Outside of very, very small geographic areas that might have, generally local gov non-English documentation available for immigrants like Hmong or whoever, all the "diverse language assistance" is pretty mono-cultured to south of the border.
It's funny how the coastal elite always rave about "immersive learning" for when they want to learn Italian or French or whatever, but somehow immersive learning is a bad idea for Mexicans, and we have to let them do all their business in their native tongue (often to the second and third generation).
My telephone bills are in English and Spanish. When I call many companies in the region, I get a robo-announcement that says "Toca Uno para Espanol, presiona dois para Portuguese, press three for English." We've had significant sub-populations of Russians, Ukrainians, French-Canadians, Chinese and Japanese around here for far longer than the Hispanics. So what happened to "Нажмите одну для русского языка" or "按两下中文"? In fact, where's "Press foh' fuh Ebonics"? It's clearly discriminatory.
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How about just getting back to 95% who speak English and consider the United States of America to be the country to which they pledge allegiance?
I don't think US ever was 95%. Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo even forbids in the lands we won from Mexico.
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I don't think US ever was 95%. Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo even forbids in the lands we won from Mexico.
It's fluctuated within 72-90% white historically with the remainder being mostly black according to wiki. Of course whites aren't all of the same tribe.
Looking at things from a pragmatic results orientated angle Trump should be able to peel off even a lot of black voters with a strong nationalistic jobs message. Correction, nationalistic policies that create more jobs.
Talk of what's good for the global economy is merely oligarch subterfuge for exploiting labor differentials and lax environmental standards throughout the world. Open borders immigration is the oligarchs play.
Open borders for you and gated communities for them
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It's fluctuated within 72-90% white historically with the remainder being mostly black according to wiki. Of course whites aren't all of the same tribe.
Looking at things from a pragmatic results orientated angle Trump should be able to peel off even a lot of black voters with a strong nationalistic jobs message. Correction, nationalistic policies that create more jobs.
Talk of what's good for the global economy is merely oligarch subterfuge for exploiting labor differentials and lax environmental standards throughout the world. Open borders immigration is the oligarchs play.
Open borders for you and gated communities for them
I was referring to speaking English.
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There were a number of times in the history of the United States when German was dang close to, and before the Revolution may have even surpassed, English as far as the number of speakers.
While it's a legend that German was at one time considered for the official language of the United States and was defeated by a single vote, what is true is that in 1795 US laws and official documents were, for the first time, printed in a language alternate to English at the request of Germans living in the United States.
Up until around the Civil War, German was the predominant language in Pennsylvania.
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There were a number of times in the history of the United States when German was dang close to, and before the Revolution may have even surpassed, English as far as the number of speakers.
While it's a legend that German was at one time considered for the official language of the United States and was defeated by a single vote, what is true is that in 1795 US laws and official documents were, for the first time, printed in a language alternate to English at the request of Germans living in the United States.
Up until around the Civil War, German was the predominant language in Pennsylvania.
Similar to that, there were a number of Spanish speakers in Texas as well as in the states conquered from Mexico in 1850 or so.
I don't have an issue with the "English as the primary language" stuff. The main thing I don't like is people using language as an excuse to put burdens govt and private parties.
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Similar to that, there were a number of Spanish speakers in Texas as well as in the states conquered from Mexico in 1850 or so.
I don't have an issue with the "English as the primary language" stuff. The main thing I don't like is people using language as an excuse to put burdens govt and private parties.
Large number in those states, also as I referenced the Treaty above, that is the reason why you won't see English as the official language in those states.