Author Topic: Debate Thread 10/15/2008  (Read 7660 times)

Leatherneck

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Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« on: October 15, 2008, 07:40:34 PM »
McCain-Palin are dead if John doesn't deliver tonight. The only thing they'll have to rely on is The Bradley Factor. McCain was an attack pilot: I hope he remembers how to do that.

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ronnyreagan

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2008, 09:01:33 PM »
At this point, he pretty much has to attack. Obama called him out that he wouldn't say the same things to his face that he's been saying at rallies. At the first debate McCain wouldn't even look at Obama, and it didn't come off well. McCain has said he would attack Obama, if he backs down now he will lose "the base" that wants him to attack. The problem is that attacking could very easily drive away the independents he needs to win. Recent polling suggest that the independents he needs to win aren't responding to the current attacks very positively. I have no doubt that people here would love to see him rip into Obama the entire night, but there are just as many people that will be turned off by it. He has to attack like he said he would, but I think he's got to be very careful about it.
You have to respect the president, whether you agree with him or not.
Obama, however, is not the president since a Kenyan cannot legally be the U.S. President ;/

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2008, 10:46:41 PM »
HAHA "Senator Government"  =D
In the world of science, there is physics.  Everything else is stamp collecting.  -Ernest Rutherford

Monkeyleg

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2008, 10:58:34 PM »
McCain was stronger in this debate than in the prior two, but not strong enough. I suspect his campaign is over.

longeyes

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2008, 11:10:29 PM »
I watched a prospective voter reaction afterwards (NBC).  McCain can never be strong enough.  The average American voter, if these people are an example, are not really up to grasping the issues or selecting a President.  Someone who thinks Ayers is just about "negative campaigning" and will be, well, passe' in three weeks anyway shouldn't be pulling a lever except at Tastee Freeze.
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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2008, 11:14:55 PM »
I didn't watch #1 or #3.
I've seen a home-made sign in my area: "The old man and Sarah." My father hasn't been impressed with McCain at all... and decided to bisect his McCain/Palin 08 bumper sticker. It now says Palin '08.

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2008, 11:20:27 PM »
i don't trust the news media to be unbiased in their reporting (it probably doesn't help that i was watching it on CBS; i wanted to watch criminal minds) so i'm a bit skeptical about the 'polls' they were quoting. i admit i havn't been paying much attention but i did watch tonight and i thought maccain did well.

i just can't understand how people adore obama. after all this time he still is so vague. and i do think the associations he has are important and should be talked about. even if he is truley innocent (which i don't believe) of their beliefs and actions, it still shows that he has a bad judge of character. and a president cannot afford to be a bad judge of character.  
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don

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2008, 11:23:03 PM »
McCain attacked as well he should have. I personally was impressed by Mccain more so than Obama. I am betting on McCain even though I probably not vote for him. I think that he will get a boost from the debate. If McCain can get within five points of Obama, the Bradley effect will make up the difference. Before someone asks, the Bradley effect= race as a determining factor when elections are close.

longeyes

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2008, 12:01:22 AM »
We learned one thing: McCain debates better sitting down.

I thought McCain won the debate and did pretty well, despite no "knock-out." 

Enough?  Don't know.

Ask Joe and Jill Plumber.
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ArmedBear

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 12:26:11 AM »
Anyone notice Obama's praise for Biden's "hard work" in passing the AWB in '94?

Given that this was totally unsolicited, I find it especially disturbing.

Monkeyleg

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2008, 12:29:40 AM »
I was watching Bill O'Reilly (something I almost never do) before the debate. Dick Morris was saying that, because McCain has already lost, he could afford to go after Obama on his associations with Ayers, Albright, etc, go after Obama on his "middle class tax cut" that will actually gut the economy and possibly send it into a full-blown depression, and so on.

That made sense. If McCain had been more forceful, he could have won the debate and won the election.

He let Obama slide by with the flimsy story about his relationship with Ayers. Note to McCain: this isn't just about Ayers. It's about the types of people he surrounds himself with. You could have mentioned Ayers, Albright, Rezko and ACORN, quickly explained Obama's relationship to the four, and then asked America if they could trust someone with such associations.

McCain let Obama repeat time and again that he would cut taxes for 95% of Americans. McCain should have gone for that, and asked how he was going to pay for it, and ask how you "cut taxes" on the 40% of Americans who don't pay taxes. He could have even implied that Obama's plan is nothing more than a new entitlement plan.

When the abortion subject came up, McCain made another mistake. He spent time explaining his own pro-life position, and his adopted children. Instead he should have raised the issue of Obama voting against the "born-alive" act, allowing abortion survivors to die in garbage cans. Nobody--except the most radical abortion supporters--can be comfortable with that position.

McCain could have done all that and more while still touting his own programs and a positive view for the future. But he didn't. He let Obama have the night.

Over 50% of America deserves Obama. The problem is, most of us here on APS don't, but we're going to suffer anyway.

Harold Tuttle

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2008, 12:34:45 AM »
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

Hawkmoon

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2008, 12:59:57 AM »
Anybody else here old enough to remember an amusing little movie titled "What if they gave a war and nobody came?" This election seems to me to be like the election that nobody cares about. I mean, here on this forum we care, and care deeply. But out there in the world?

We are now three weeks before the election. In any previous election, driving through my town you could hardly see a lawn through all the campaign signs. This year? In a town that was always Republican until about 16 years ago and has been solidly Democratic since, I have seen exactly two Obama lawn signs. I have seen more McCain-Palin signs, but not a lot of those, either. And I see a lot of lawns with a sign up for the Republican state representative who is up for reelection, but no corresponding McCain-Palin sign.

I don't this election is going to be decided by who goes to the polls in greater numbers so much as by which party stays home in greater numbers.
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slingshot

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 01:19:19 AM »
McCain made some good points.  Obama seemed to take a higher road as might be expected from the candidate who is believed to be in the lead going into November.  I don't think McCain has done enough.  People have already made up their minds unfortunately.  McCain should make some gains in Ohio and Florida from this debate.  So that is good.
It shall be as it was in the past... Not with dreams, but with strength and with courage... Shall a nation be molded to last. (The Plainsman, 1936)

Manedwolf

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2008, 03:04:23 AM »
Anyone notice Obama's praise for Biden's "hard work" in passing the AWB in '94?

Given that this was totally unsolicited, I find it especially disturbing.

If Obama is elected, there will be a new AWB by this time next year. It will be permanent, and it will be judged constitutional by Obama's supreme court picks.

Buy what you want now.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2008, 04:45:29 AM »
Quote
and ask how you "cut taxes" on the 40% of Americans who don't pay taxes

Everybody in America pays taxes. Income taxes are not the only kind of tax, and besides, at least some of the costs incurred by extra income taxes is rolled over to the consumer.
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K Frame

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2008, 08:06:21 AM »
No, not everyone in American does pay taxes.

In order to PAY taxes, the taxes have to be incrementally collected via paycheck deduction or quarterly filing, and you can't get it all back at the end of the tax year.

More than a few people I know get all of their inputs back at the end of the year.
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2008, 08:11:48 AM »
Quote
it will be judged constitutional by Obama's supreme court picks.

who is retiring from the court inthe next 4 years?
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

agricola

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2008, 08:18:30 AM »
Best debate of the four, best questions and McCain definately won - though it could have been a lot bigger win than it was.  Is it me or is the mask on Obama slipping more and more?  His supreme court answer in itself basically screamed that it would be packed.
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Don't care

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2008, 08:19:38 AM »
who is retiring from the court inthe next 4 years?

Probably John Paul Stevens, born 1920.

HankB

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2008, 08:20:47 AM »
McCain could have made Obama explain how 95% of the people would get their taxes cut, when, thanks to the last round of tax cuts, at least one third don't pay any income tax. McCain didn't.

McCain could have spent more time on the fact that the economy really turned south two years ago - about the time the Democrats took both houses of Congress. McCain didn't.

McCain could have made a comment about how when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can be assured of Paul's vote . . . but Obama doesn't want to rob Peter, he wants to rob Joe the Plumber. McCain didn't.

McCain could have brought up, in an offhanded way, Obama's support for Odinga in Kenya, and just mentioned that he was a "particularly unsavory character." Most people never heard of this guy, but if he was mentioned, a lot would have Googled it - maybe even a few of the talking heads on the news would have picked it up. McCain didn't.

In the question about negative attack ads, McCain mentioned T-shirts . . . a meaningless comment to most. He could have said that people are showing up at Obama events with T-shirts that had his and Palin's name, with obscenities that he can't repeat on TV . . . obscenities TOLERATED by Obama. But McCain didn't.

I saw McCain's stump speech on Monday - it was a good one. I was hoping that was the McCain that would show up to the debate.

It wasn't.

McCain seemed unfocused and rambling . . . I guess that's how he decided to play it, since he doesn't want to win anyway.  :mad:
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2008, 08:34:56 AM »
No, not everyone in American does pay taxes.

In order to PAY taxes, the taxes have to be incrementally collected via paycheck deduction or quarterly filing, and you can't get it all back at the end of the tax year.

More than a few people I know get all of their inputs back at the end of the year.

Both of the single moms that work in my office get all thier taxes back.  One is a divorcee, but the other is a pin cushion, and is being thusly rewarded for having 3 kids from seperate fathers.  Obama is now proposing to give her not only almost all of her taxes back, but a goverment subsidy.
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ArmedBear

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2008, 11:03:06 AM »
McCain did a very poor job.

He didn't EXPLAIN why it's bad that our incorporated businesses pay 35% tax whereas Ireland's pay 11%. Many people who don't already know this are dense enough to say, "Yeah! Stick it to those corporations!"

A few sentences would suffice, e.g. "First of all, businesses have to make a profit, so they pass those taxes on to you, the consumer, anyway. There's really no such thing as a 'business tax' that YOU don't pay for with higher prices. This also makes exports more expensive, so you pay for it with lost jobs and lower pay, when American products can't compete overseas. Finally, businesses have been moving offshore for lower tax rates, so you pay for it again with more lost jobs and a sagging economy. No tariff or trade restriction can make Germans or Brazilians want American products if those products cost too much."

The real problem here is, McCain is not a champion of free trade, lower taxes, or limited government. He's been the sort of "conservative" who wants a lot of what the "liberals" want, but with a different face on it. It's hard for him to make arguments that he has no passion for.

That said, Obama is a committed Socialist. Saul Alinsky is his real hero, and despite the attempts to hide it, this comes out over and over again. The real issue with Ayers, Wright and ACORN is that they're all hard left, and Obama seems to feel very comfortable with anything and anyone on the far left. He claims to want to "unite", but has he been chatting with Jonah Goldberg or Virginia Postrel to see what insights he might gain? Hell no! He's a far leftie, doing his best to sneak into government.

Therefore, I had no choice but to vote McCain. I won't vote the country down the toilet, and since Bob Barr has been a non-starter, a vote for him would be a vote for Obama.

ilbob

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2008, 11:22:18 AM »
A friend of my wife called her after the debate last night. She said she came away with the distinct impression that somehow McCain wants to take away her health insurance.

That is the problem with an idea that is too complex to explain in 20 second sound bites.
bob

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longeyes

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Re: Debate Thread 10/15/2008
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2008, 11:30:43 AM »
The fact that so many of us on this forum can see easily where McCain goes astray tells us that McCain either isn't up to the job or is throwing the match.  That doesn't mean Obama is the better alternative; God knows he's not.

But we have to accept that we have too many people voting who are clueless.  Unless that changes we will have more Obamas, out till infinity, and representatives and a Court to match.  How long does anyone expect the Bill of Rights to survive without "tampering?"  A year, five, ten?  Make your best bets now.

My fear is that we are descending into mob rule, exactly what the Founding Fathers warned us against and tried so hard to prevent.  Of course it's also true that we have been very poorly served by our elected representatives.

It looks as if the time for stealth, exile, and silence has arrived.  As the man said, buy what you want now...and try hard to hang on to it through what could be some dark times.  They could be rolling out the guillotines one of these days.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.