Author Topic: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.  (Read 7925 times)

MillCreek

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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Pb

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2015, 10:45:27 AM »
It's a horrible mental disorder.

Probably due to malfunctions in their mental body map, their brains are convinced that part of their body is alien.

Many people with amputations still feel that their body is still intact.  For example, a woman born missing her arms could still "feel" every sensation of moving them about, even though she had never had them.

This disorder is probably the opposite of that.

MechAg94

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2015, 11:00:32 AM »
It's a horrible mental disorder.
And beyond that, I don't really care.  The entire media has become one big daytime talk show. 
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roo_ster

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2015, 11:49:24 AM »
It's a horrible mental disorder.

Probably due to malfunctions in their mental body map, their brains are convinced that part of their body is alien.

Many people with amputations still feel that their body is still intact.  For example, a woman born missing her arms could still "feel" every sensation of moving them about, even though she had never had them.

This disorder is probably the opposite of that.


As is transsexualism and many other disorders.  Indulging people's mental illnesses is not a compassionate response.

And beyond that, I don't really care.  The entire media has become one big daytime talk show. 

Preparing the ground for The Latest Super-Important Civil Rights Cause of Our Time.  World War G, World War T, World War WTF. 

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roo_ster

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vaskidmark

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2015, 01:08:18 PM »
I agree that those who feel that some part of their body is betraying them suffer from a mental disorder and probably need a lot of help overcoming whatever is behind that feeling.

As for those that want to become disabled?  I'd be more than happy to trade them straight up their not being disabled for my being disabled.  I'm pretty sure most other disabled persons would, too.

As for those that want to pose as disabled?  I am not sure there is a measure that could be used to contain what I feel about and towards them.

stay safe.
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They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

MillCreek

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2015, 01:28:47 PM »
I will gladly trade my malfunctioning eyes and ears for a good set.  Oh, and a full head of hair, too.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Pb

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2015, 01:36:08 PM »
From what I have read, there is cure for this disorder yet. 

RevDisk

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2015, 01:39:36 PM »

Everyone is entitled to their weirdness, so long as it involves consenting adults and whatnot. What people are not entitled to is me caring about their particular weirdness. You want to be a transabled furry attack-helicopter otherkin? Sure. Why not? Congratulations. Don't care as long as you keep it folks who voluntarily follow that particular thing and don't bother other folks with it.

There's nothing wrong with being weird if you're not hurting anyone or anything. Thing is, learn to function in normal society and keep that stuff at home, conventions, Tumblr or whatever. You don't need to foist your pet hobby horse on the entire world and make everything under the sun revolve around that hobby horse.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2015, 01:43:12 PM »
Being disadvantaged isn't.  Not any more.  Now being disadvantaged is an advantage.  This is not a good trend.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 01:57:43 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2015, 01:56:06 PM »
Everyone is entitled to their weirdness, so long as it involves consenting adults and whatnot. What people are not entitled to is me caring about their particular weirdness. You want to be a transabled furry attack-helicopter otherkin? Sure. Why not? Congratulations. Don't care as long as you keep it folks who voluntarily follow that particular thing and don't bother other folks with it.

There's nothing wrong with being weird if you're not hurting anyone or anything. Thing is, learn to function in normal society and keep that stuff at home, conventions, Tumblr or whatever. You don't need to foist your pet hobby horse on the entire world and make everything under the sun revolve around that hobby horse.
Eh, some of this stuff is taken well past the level of weird-but-harmless hobby.  Some people take it all the way into the realm of mental illness, even to the point of mutilating themselves because of it.  That's not harmless.  And it's not compassionate of us to encourage or congratulate them.

RevDisk

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2015, 02:01:40 PM »
Being disadvantaged isn't.  Not any more.  Now being disadvantaged is an advantage.

Sure, in the hierarchy of oppression that governs social sympathy, which doesn't translate to dollars in your pocket. That'll impact political correctness in ads, sitcoms and books with lots of awards and few readers. The real world, significantly less so.

I've known plenty of people that are into spectacularly weird stuff that are very successful. They keep their personal lives discrete and act like professionals in work environments. People that do everything to broadcast their thing? Generally not doing economically well unless they can make a living pandering to the demographics of that particular thing.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Balog

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2015, 02:21:25 PM »
Sure, in the hierarchy of oppression that governs social sympathy, which doesn't translate to dollars in your pocket. That'll impact political correctness in ads, sitcoms and books with lots of awards and few readers. The real world, significantly less so.

I've known plenty of people that are into spectacularly weird stuff that are very successful. They keep their personal lives discrete and act like professionals in work environments. People that do everything to broadcast their thing? Generally not doing economically well unless they can make a living pandering to the demographics of that particular thing.

There's a difference between being "into weird stuff" and being mentally ill to the point of self harm. And a significant difference between doing ones own thing, and using the force of .gov and social pressures to harm those who do not affirm your mental illness as a positive thing.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2015, 03:50:05 PM »
There's a difference between being "into weird stuff" and being mentally ill to the point of self harm. And a significant difference between doing ones own thing, and using the force of .gov and social pressures to harm those who do not affirm your mental illness as a positive thing.

This.

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2015, 05:01:59 PM »
There's a difference between being "into weird stuff" and being mentally ill to the point of self harm. And a significant difference between doing ones own thing, and using the force of .gov and social pressures to harm those who do not affirm your mental illness as a positive thing.

I'm not sure I understand how this relates to what Revdisk said. If someone is mentally I'll to the point of harming themselves, well, that's between them and their doctor.
And I'm pretty sure he didn't say anything about pushing such mental issues as a positive thing in the greater social and political arena.
In fact, I think he said the opposite.

Personally, I'm not sure what your outrage is over people doing whatever to themselves, nor your need to label it all as mental illness. *shrug* You want to expand the definitions of what constitutes mental illness? Guess what? The lot of us are the first getting thrown under that bus, because we all have guns.

Delusional people are delusional. If they won't go seek help on their own, that's their problem. We can't force help on them, and standing on a soap box isn't going to do beans.
And nobody here is disagreeing with you on the fact that delusional people (or people who are not delusional) should be allowed to dictate their BS on others.
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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2015, 05:19:26 PM »
And yet it's still not OK to be transracial:




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roo_ster

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SADShooter

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2015, 05:39:50 PM »


Angry Men Obsessively Slandering-Not-Approving Negro Dyed Yankees

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2015, 05:49:52 PM »
I'm not sure I understand how this relates to what Revdisk said. If someone is mentally I'll to the point of harming themselves, well, that's between them and their doctor.
And I'm pretty sure he didn't say anything about pushing such mental issues as a positive thing in the greater social and political arena.
In fact, I think he said the opposite.

Personally, I'm not sure what your outrage is over people doing whatever to themselves, nor your need to label it all as mental illness. *shrug* You want to expand the definitions of what constitutes mental illness? Guess what? The lot of us are the first getting thrown under that bus, because we all have guns.

Delusional people are delusional. If they won't go seek help on their own, that's their problem. We can't force help on them, and standing on a soap box isn't going to do beans.
And nobody here is disagreeing with you on the fact that delusional people (or people who are not delusional) should be allowed to dictate their BS on others.

Yep, owning guns is exactly the same thing as chopping your dick off, and if we say that one is a mental illness then we're opening the door to the other.

We (societal we here) force people to get help all the time when they are adjudged to be mentally incompetent and a danger to themselves or others. The court where those precedings take place is in my building.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2015, 07:52:37 PM »
Yep, owning guns is exactly the same thing as chopping your dick off, and if we say that one is a mental illness then we're opening the door to the other.

We (societal we here) force people to get help all the time when they are adjudged to be mentally incompetent and a danger to themselves or others. The court where those precedings take place is in my building.

"Mentally incompetent" means that someone is unable to make their own decisions. Someone who can navigate society well enough to support themselves is not generally considered mentally incompetent. Since plenty of people have "chopped off their dicks" and continued to navigate society well enough to support themselves, I think calling them all mentally incompetent is a bit of a stretch.

Furthermore, I don't think we (as a society) should bother quiet so much with the "danger to themselves" part. It's one thing to go after someone who is a danger to others, but if the only person getting hurt is the person doing the hurting, well, than, that's their business. Feel free to offer them help/assistance on your own time, but you don't have the right to force help on them anymore than they have the right to force their BS on you.
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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2015, 10:43:16 AM »
"Mentally incompetent" means that someone is unable to make their own decisions. Someone who can navigate society well enough to support themselves is not generally considered mentally incompetent. Since plenty of people have "chopped off their dicks" and continued to navigate society well enough to support themselves, I think calling them all mentally incompetent is a bit of a stretch.

Kind of agree, but it does hinge on how you look at "incompetent."  Define it as, "Keeping your stuff together and not bothering anyone else," and yup, you've nailed it.  Define it as that plus, "and also do yourself no irreparable harm," and not so much.  Courts have often taken that second step due to old age dementia, mental retardation, disability due to TBI, etc.  IOW, when it does not involve chopping off a limb or dangly bits.

What ought not be in question is that these folks who chop off perfectly healthy bits and organs (be it genetalia, limbs, whatever) are mentally ill.  That requires zero moral calculation, merely Darwinian reasoning.  Where morality and ethics come in are folks who make it easier for these mentally ill folks to maim and mutilate themselves.  Those sort are no better than scum who take advantage of the elderly, the retarded, and children.

The sad fact is that most folks who go through with maiming/mutilating themselves are no happier than before.  Their mental state has not improved, yet now they are irreversibly harmed.  Antidepressants have a better efficacy rate helping these folks than going the choppy route.

Furthermore, I don't think we (as a society) should bother quiet so much with the "danger to themselves" part. It's one thing to go after someone who is a danger to others, but if the only person getting hurt is the person doing the hurting, well, than, that's their business. Feel free to offer them help/assistance on your own time, but you don't have the right to force help on them anymore than they have the right to force their BS on you.

Not as simple as that.

Would this policy of non-intervention apply to children(1)?  Left alone, many end up hurting themselves, mostly in ways out of sight of the rest of us.  The street urchins of Dickensian England and places like Brazil come to mind. 

How about adults...with the mental capacity of children? 

How about adults with adult mental mental capacity, but it is twisted by mental illness?

I am in agreement that much/most of this ought to be done by private charity, especially after ending the welfare state.  But private charity has not the authority to act when the child/child-minded adult/mentally ill adult is unwilling. 

Do we let our mentally ill neighbor cut off their arm with a chainsaw on their front lawn or do we act to prevent it even if they might not appreciate our act?  Do we let the suicidal teen jump off the bridge to their death in the river below?  Heck, most folk would be against letting a cat or dog, though lack of cognitive capacity, jump/fall off a bridge.  And that letting such happen when one of us might prevent it as morally reprehensible.  Should we value human life less than that of the aforementioned cat or dog?

=====================

Obviously, much of the above is rhetorical and not meant to be addressed by BSL point by point.  I think it does show the libertarian, non-interventionist approach is fraught with difficulties when dealing with children, the mentally ill, or otherwise mentally incompetent.





(1) Libertarian solutions break down many times when pushed up against the reality of children and foreign aggressors.  We can mock the "What about the children?" crowd, but it is a question that needs answering as children have not the mental capacity of adults.
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vaskidmark

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2015, 02:18:58 PM »
"Danger to self" comes from the consensus agreement that in spite of a person's desire to do certain things that can/will cause harm (physical or financial) we (you, me and the rest of the folks whop make up "society") have some sort of moral or ethical obligation to protect them (and us) from themself*.

While individual thinking may have shifted on this, groupthink continues to say it's the way to go.

Is that good, or bad?  Depends on where you plant yourself on the personal freedom and personal accountability continuum.  Get enough folks to move to your spot and you end up with a consensus.

stay safe.

* - If/when someone self-mutilates or otherwise disables themself they may wind up becoming a financial burden to the rest of us.  Regardless of any "right" is it acceptable for someone to dip into my pocket because they intentionally created the situation/circumstance such that they are no longer able to support themself?
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

MillCreek

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2015, 02:24:01 PM »

* - If/when someone self-mutilates or otherwise disables themself they may wind up becoming a financial burden to the rest of us.  Regardless of any "right" is it acceptable for someone to dip into my pocket because they intentionally created the situation/circumstance such that they are no longer able to support themself?

I have often read the exact same argument in favor of motorcycle helmets.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2015, 04:10:29 PM »
It seems obvious that if society is going to step in to require equipment that merely lessens the risk of injury, surely society must also step in to prevent wonton self mutilation like taking a sawzall to your left arm or a scalpel to your genitals.  

I don't want to get into the morality of helmet and seat belt laws themselves, just the issue of consistency.  I don't see how seat belt laws can logically coexist with legal sex change surgery and presumably now tans-ableism surgery.

White Horseradish

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Re: Transgender is so yesterday. Meet the transabled.
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2015, 04:10:56 PM »

Would this policy of non-intervention apply to children
Is this going to become another circumcision argument?
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