Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Monkeyleg on October 14, 2010, 11:23:22 PM
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Oh, My Lord, there's going to be a gun store opening in a Milwaukee suburb, and it will be across the street from a school. The carnage! Daily shootouts. Kids buying guns and putting them in their lunch boxes. Where will it end?
I love this quote:
West Allis Police Chief Michael Jungbluth said he wished that Govas had chosen a better location for the shop. And he said that police will be making sure Govas "runs a tight ship."
"If they don't run a good business, I know that I'll be heavily involved," Jungbluth said. "There's not a lot of margin of error here on the business owner's part."
I'll bet he's going to be "heavily involved". Milwaukee once had over two dozen gun stores in the county, and now there are just two. The powers that be ran the others out of business. And now this guy has the nerve to try to open a new one.
Rest of the story here (http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/104973644.html)
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And they just cleaned up the blood in the streets from the AWB sunset six years ago. =(
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LOL...
I was just working setting pins and running the stopwatches at the bowling pin shoot with "Shorty" over at Schultz last weekend. A very good salt of the earth guy, he's a club officer, and I've done a few work-hour projects with him.
Although I guess the City of West Allis is right to worry about all the random careless gun play at other establishments in the city that sell guns, such as The Shooter's Shop, and Dunham's sporting goods.
Oh, wait... :laugh:
Hopefully what Fendry says about all the state preemption laws meaning the city can just go FOAD is true. I need a new FFL, my kitchen table guy is giving up his license at the end of the year. (He was a SOT too, and did NFA stuff :( ) And no way in hell I'm paying Shooter's $100 a gun, or going to those bottom-feeders over at Badger Guns.
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For a few years here in Oklahoma City (well, okay, it was Del City, but that's another name for Southeast Central Oklahoma City) there was a military surplus shop that had an FFL located right across the street from Del City High School. Shop's still there, but no longer an FFL. While they were, though, local LE, military, and everyone else frequented the store daily.
It was probably one of the best gun shops I've ever worked in--especially once when a few things seemed odd about the clientele, and within fifteen seconds the lady behind the register told the two deputies, four airmen, and three Marines in the store to keep an eye out, passed me a 4" 1911, and shut the safe door with her toe. Turned out to be nothing, but still... =D
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West Allis Police Chief Michael Jungbluth said he wished that Govas had chosen a better location for the shop. And he said that police will be making sure Govas "runs a tight ship."
"If they don't run a good business, I know that I'll be heavily involved," Jungbluth said. "There's not a lot of margin of error here on the business owner's part."
Is he a police chief or a mafia boss?
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To a degree, I think he and others in the city .gov know there's nothing much they're going to do about it, so they're all just making the appropriate hand-wringing noises to satisfy the bliss-ninnys.
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Isn't it the responsibility of the BATFE to make sure he runs a tight ship? Isn't this out of the PD jurisdiction? Are all Wisconsin police chiefs big mouth bullies? First Madison, now Milwaukee.
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Isn't it the responsibility of the BATFE to make sure he runs a tight ship? Isn't this out of the PD jurisdiction? Are all Wisconsin police chiefs big mouth bullies? First Madison, now Milwaukee.
When in 2005 it looked possible that our CCW bill would pass, the chief of police of a medium-sized city in WI said that he would order his officers to draw down on anyone found to be carrying if the bill passed.
Sheriffs and police chiefs can get away with quite a bit. For quite a long time, the Milwaukee county sheriff had deputies in high crime areas pull over anyone who looked suspicious, using the flimsiest of excuses (burned out license plate lamp, etc). They would ask the drivers for permission to search the cars. If a driver refused, the deputies radioed ahead to the next squad, whose deputies would pull over the same car again. If the driver refused, it happened yet again.
Nobody challenged this.
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Thousand foot rule?
First thing I thought of was how do his customers without carry licenses get the guns they buy out of the store....
Hmmmm....
The more I think about that, the less dumb the question sounds.
Maybe it's some trick of local law? Zoning ordnances?
Terry, 230RN
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conservativecave.com%2FSmileys%2Fdefault%2FOhNoes.gif&hash=7a1bfe47b8417abfd5264391a01fcf9309a66cc4)
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Silly, he'll never be able to compete with the guys selling AK-47s and bazookas with gonkulators from the ice cream truck.
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Silly, he'll never be able to compete with the guys selling AK-47s and bazookas with gonkulators from the ice cream truck.
Since he's a friend of mine, we have a gentlemen's agreement I won't operate anywhere within one mile of his shop. =)
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Sell RPG's. There's not a lot of markup in them, so he likely won't sell them and thus you won't be a competitor.
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Sell RPG's. There's not a lot of markup in them, so he likely won't sell them and thus you won't be a competitor.
I would, but RevDisk has the exclusive blackmarket distribution rights in all of CONUS to those all sewn up I'm afraid...
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I would, but RevDisk has the exclusive blackmarket distribution rights in all of CONUS to those all sewn up I'm afraid...
Damn, I thought he only had all the North America WMD rights.
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Oh, I wouldn't worry about Rev: he's so busy with this new "dating" thing, he ain't paying attention to business... >:D
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Oh, I wouldn't worry about Rev: he's so busy with this new "dating" thing, he ain't paying attention to business... >:D
Yeah, but unless you have RevDisk's 09 Street-FFL number, and GPS coordinates of his car trunk, Davidson's Gallery of Guns and MANPAD's or Bud's RPG Shop, or the other distributors won't sell them to you.
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Sell RPG's. There's not a lot of markup in them, so he likely won't sell them and thus you won't be a competitor.
Milwaukee is a long ways for the Mexican Cartel folks to go and buy RPG's, though.
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Milwaukee is a long ways for the Mexican Cartel folks to go and buy RPG's, though.
That's what UPS is for. Don't you know that you can buy machine guns, grenades and rocket launchers on the internet? That's what Sarah Brady told me.
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Sarah Brady is a noted firearms authority.
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Sarah Brady is a noted firearms authority.
Yeah... I heard she has TWO "shoulder things that go up"...
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Hey, hey, let's be fair. It was Carolyn McCarthy (sp?) that made that egregiously ignorant remark about the "shoulder thing that goes up."
Not that I want to prolong her embarrasment >:D since I'm a forgiving sort, but I think this is the video. (I'm not 100% sure. I can't download videos from this machine.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U
Of course, you might be right that Ms. Brady has two of 'em. Actually, I think most ladies do.
Anyhow, I wanted to reiterate my question about how do customers of that gun shop get around the 1000 foot rule when they're exiting the gun shop with a firearm. ???
Is it maybe an LEO-only store or something?
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public street, 100foot bs no workie?
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I thought the thousand foot rule was struck down by a federal court somewhere.
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I thought the thousand foot rule was struck down by a federal court somewhere.
Original one was, but somehow it got reinstated via another bill (no, I don't know how), which is still in force IIRC. [barf]
Yeah, the mere presence of firearms in the possession of peaceful, innocent, law-abiding, firearms-owning American citizens is so dangerous that children will be imperiled if they're within a fifth of a MILE, and those we DO need to worry about - those who would otherwise bring firearms onto a school campus for the purpose of assault, mayhem, and murder - will give a crap about the thousand-foot exclusion zone, too! ;/
Yeah, that was sarcasm.
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The federal 1000-foot rule does not apply to cased arms going to/from place of purchase/repair or (if you live somewhere besides Wisconsin & Illinois) have a concealed permit.
Don't know about state-level 1000-foot rules, except Virginia does not have one and pretty much says it's up to the feds to enforce the federal laws.
stay safe.
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Ah! Thank you, vaskidmark!
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Pretty much it boils down to how-in-the-hell would the feds enforce the 1000 foot rule? They rely on local Leos to bust someone with the gun and then press federal charges. IMHO, IIRC, INAL and all that, but I think the intent was to tack additional charges onto drug dealers caught in school zones with guns too. Considering in my neighborhood in Virginia there wasn't a single way out of my neighborhood that didn't take me within a 1000' of a school, and VA is an open carry state....I always stopped to case my firearm before leaving the hood... ;/
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When our CCW bill was before the legislature for the first time, it was amended to prohibit carry within 1000 feet of a school. One legislator pointed out that there were many schools within 1000 feet of major highways and interstate highways. Pretty tough when you're driving on I-94 to know when to pull over to the shoulder to disarm.
Maybe the state could have made money selling GPS units that would beep whenever you were getting close to 1000 feet of a school. ;/
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^ Yeah, I drive through a school zone every time I go grocery shopping. Makes me wonder how they go about measuring 1000 feet. Do they have to hire a surveyor to "make" their case?
Nyuck-nyuck-nyuck. (https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthehighroad.us%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon10.gif&hash=9adbeaa794ed8ca15110e1a0f839661750b206f5)
I am reminded of the "escape clauses" in real estate title insurance policies: "we insure your title except for 'things an accurate survey would reveal.'"
^^ Thanks for the extra "color," Jamis Jockey.
I am of course "aware" of the 1000-foot law, but since I have a CCW permit, I don't necessarily know the nits and grits of it on a daily basis, especially since I don't have school-age kids. I can park on school property (but not go into the school armed), and of course I know about the exemption as far as hunting on school property (like the "school acres" and other school properties), but I had to wonder about transporting a gun out of the store under that restriction.
Ummm.... or "infringement."
Terry, 230RN
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Since he is so close to the school, he had better disguise his candy dish and put the Colt and S&W lunch boxes in the back.
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I don't know how confrontational he's feeling, but I'm going to suggest to Shorty that when he opens he puts up one of those "McGruff Crime-Dog Safe-Kids place" signs in his windows. You know, those programs where kids being tailed by a molester, or being bullied can run to.
>:D
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft33%2FAJ_Dual%2Fsafe_kids_sign_11.jpg&hash=9e00f8947f508255e94814f0b710534e7bf13c32)
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Kids running into a gun store for safety????!!!! It would be better to have them be molested!!!
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Pretty much it boils down to how-in-the-hell would the feds enforce the 1000 foot rule? They rely on local Leos to bust someone with the gun and then press federal charges.
But I thought the new official policy of the Feds is that local police CANNOT enforce Federal laws? In fact, haven't they filed suit against Arizona on that basis? ;/
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AJ... you know this guy?
If you can get him to declare as a "safe spot" for kids, I'll bring business his way.
This could be FUN...
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West Allis Police Chief Michael Jungbluth said he wished that Govas had chosen a better location for the shop. And he said that police will be making sure Govas "runs a tight ship."
"If they don't run a good business, I know that I'll be heavily involved," Jungbluth said. "There's not a lot of margin of error here on the business owner's part."
Lots of margin for error on the part of stupid aspiring career politicians, pushing their agendas from behind tin shields. [barf]
Every eff-up this clown makes while "monitoring" this place will cost the tax payers money, will cost the gun store money, but will just put this *expletive deleted*ss-clown's name in the paper and increasing his visibility "for the children." Ugh. The Stupid. It should hurt more. :facepalm:
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Lots of margin for error on the part of stupid aspiring career politicians, pushing their agendas from behind tin shields. [barf]
Every eff-up this clown makes while "monitoring" this place will cost the tax payers money, will cost the gun store money, but will just put this *expletive deleted*ss-clown's name in the paper and increasing his visibility "for the children." Ugh. The Stupid. It should hurt more. :facepalm:
You're way over-thinking this.
The city is (mostly) making noises to placate the ninny's, then this will blow over. If there's anything they can do to him from a zoning/regulatory standpoint they probably already would have done so when he applied for his FFL.
The chief already knows what kind of scrutiny FFL's operate under.
If the school makes enough of a stink, they may try to regulate/zone him away from opening in his own building. But if it's already zoned commercial, (it is, and always has been a storefront), and they can't put pressure on the landlord or seller, (they can't, he's owned the building for years now...) there's probably not much they can do.
The chief and city .gov just can't look like they don't care when the sheep bleat "for the children!", it's just not realpolitik.
AJ... you know this guy?
If you can get him to declare as a "safe spot" for kids, I'll bring business his way.
This could be FUN...
Yes, he's a club officer at Schultz Rod & Gun down in Muskego where I shoot. And I've spent a few hours with him working on club service-hour projects. Just last week I was working with him setting pins, and running timers at the bowling pin shoot and we were talking about his store. Although all the negative press hadn't broken yet.
I will suggest the sign to him. (Or maybe get him one if I can find a source and give it to him at the next monthly meeting...) Although I'm sure he'll do whatever he thinks is in the best interests of his new business first, antagonizing and being "in your face" with the bliss-ninny's second.
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Keep in mind that Milwaukee will be getting a new BACA chapter in the next couple years. If he posts the place as a "safe zone", I know where I'll send BACA members... ;)
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You're way over-thinking this.
The city is (mostly) making noises to placate the ninny's, then this will blow over. If there's anything they can do to him from a zoning/regulatory standpoint they probably already would have done so when he applied for his FFL.
Look what Milwaukee and the Journal Sentinel have been doing to Badger. No crimes committed by Badger, but you wouldn't know it to read the newspaper or listen to the politicians. I fully expect Badger to be out of business within the next few years. Then they'll move against the Shooters Shop.
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Look what Milwaukee and the Journal Sentinel have been doing to Badger. No crimes committed by Badger, but you wouldn't know it to read the newspaper or listen to the politicians. I fully expect Badger to be out of business within the next few years. Then they'll move against the Shooters Shop.
I don't feel too badly for Badger. I guess, if I had to choose whether they stay or go, I'd rather they stay in business to act as a lighting rod of negative attention for every other store in the metro area, but that's about it. :P
1. The guys working at Badger are on average, a bunch of arrogant aholes. (And I know they've been less than friendly to you too, things concerning CCW, and the cause of RKBA in WI in general...)
2. "That element" does indeed shop almost exclusively there. And IMO the proximity of Badger as closest into the City of Milwaukee does not completely explain it. You'd think to a lowlife wanting a gun it would be important enough to them that they'd be willing to flip open the phone book and drive another 15-30 minutes to try Shooter's, Fletcher, Sportsman's (when it was open) or even Gander. I don't know that Badger is doing anything illegal to attract that business. Maybe it's just now word of mouth and/or a self-fulfilling prophecy from when they did sill sell the Bryco/Jennings/Lorcin crap guns, and they reap what they sow.
#3. They did lead as the origin store in the number of ATF gun traces in the country when such stats were available.
Now I know there's good reasons for that, the MPD is "fussy" and does a trace on EVERY handgun they recover, even if such a trace is not material to the criminal case, or circumstances which the handgun was recovered. That pumps Badger's number above the average, and our proximity to Chicago/IL which has the FOID card system, which may drive handgun (straw) buyers up to Badger here in WI where we (thankfully) do not probably accounts for the rest.
And I certainly understand that the Journal Sentinel and the libtard anti-gun Milwaukee establishment has a vested interest in shutting them down above and beyond their actual crime impact. So while I know they haven't done a complete job of the story, and they overlook the unique circumstances that pump up their trace count in the ATF statistics, I do have to wonder if Badger is completely innocent either.
Overall, when it comes to the "Badger Guns situation" I just don't see any winners or victims here, just the lowbrow/ghetto store with rude staff, the thugs, and the big-city liberals. =|
If Badger had made even the smallest pro-forma display of support or concern for the state of RKBA in WI, I'd be more willing to go to bat for them, but they have not. And one previous owner (Beatovic) even said he was in support of banning private face-to-face sales to the Journal-Sentinel. Knowing full well he stood only to gain from more sales or transfer fees.
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And one previous owner (Beatovic) even said he was in support of banning private face-to-face sales to the Journal-Sentinel. Knowing full well he stood only to gain from more sales or transfer fees.
Yeah, and the owner of the Shooters Shop is in favor of a lot more restrictive laws than just bans on private sales. If he can eliminate his competitors--other dealers or private sales--he's all for new laws. He doesn't give a rat's behind for the 2nd.
I'm no fan of Badger, but I know what Mick Beatovic and Wally did to try to stop the bad guys. I doubt there's many gun store owners that go through what they did to stop criminals from getting guns. My guess is that the new owner is doing the same, but look what it gets him.
The Shooters Shop? They just ignore black or Hispanic customers (except for watching for shoplifting) until they realize they're not welcome and leave. A really elegant solution to the problem. ;/ Maybe the Journal Sentinel should interview the owner of the Shooters Shop to find out how he keeps "those people" from getting guns.
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Yeah, and the owner of the Shooters Shop is in favor of a lot more restrictive laws than just bans on private sales. If he can eliminate his competitors--other dealers or private sales--he's all for new laws. He doesn't give a rat's behind for the 2nd.
I'm no fan of Badger, but I know what Mick Beatovic and Wally did to try to stop the bad guys. I doubt there's many gun store owners that go through what they did to stop criminals from getting guns. My guess is that the new owner is doing the same, but look what it gets him.
The Shooters Shop? They just ignore black or Hispanic customers (except for watching for shoplifting) until they realize they're not welcome and leave. A really elegant solution to the problem. ;/ Maybe the Journal Sentinel should interview the owner of the Shooters Shop to find out how he keeps "those people" from getting guns.
But as we've discussed in the past Shooter's Shop keeps quiet about it, nor do they donate to anti-gun politicians or lobby for those laws. Just "wishing" the laws would be more restrictive and funnel business to them, I can live with. In comparison, giving useful soundbites to "the enemy" that let them go "See, even the gun stores support banning private sales!" is inexcusable.
Morally, one could say Beatovic is better because he was honest about his opinion, but going by the realpolitik standard, that was the day I was done with their store for good.
As for not waiting on minority customers... I'm struggling to find the right words to delicately state that I don't approve of it, but from a cold-hearted sense of pragmatism, I can at least see how an FFL may be tempted to do it, the reality of the crime stats being what they are. =|
And I was just in their store last week dropping off Sight-In Clinic flyers for Schultz. A black woman parked at the same time I did and got out of her car. And I admit, I looked to see if there was a male passenger waiting in her car to signify a possible straw buy. She was alone. She was in line at the counter ahead of me while I waited to ask if I could leave the flyers, and they waited on her without any problem it seemed. Granted, maybe it's because she already had a pistol, and I think they were taking it in for repair.
Maybe I'm putting myself in the detestable position of being an apologist for gun-store racism, but I'd say it's more the Journal-Sentinel's and other anti-groups fault than it is Shooters. Since they like to target the store, rather than clamor for straw-buyer prosecutions, or proven gun-crime initiatives like NRA's "Project Exile", the store does not feel safe if it comes up under some magic number of ATF traces for crime-guns that raises the anti's ire, and while it's awful, there's a certain logic to playing the odds on race that way, sad to say.
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Aj, do you know if Shorty is going to be looking for any help?
If he is, I'd gladly work for him.
I could really use the job, and I'd love to be a little thorn in the side of the bliss ninnys.