Author Topic: Incompetant Realtor Story #2569 (Read 2161 times)

The Rabbi · « **on:** August 28, 2006, 04:49:04 AM »

So I have owned this duplex for about 13 years now. My current tenants on one side are an older Mexican couple (50s) who have been there a few years. They don't speak English. He came to me a few months ago and asked if I would be interested in selling the property. For the right price everything is for sale, so I named a figure which was high but not unreasonable.
They got a realtor (oops, Realtor) who called me to work out terms. I told him I had absolutely no need to sell but was willing to do so in part because my ancestors came here with nothing and built themselves up and I'd like to help others do that. But I was totally inflexible on everything: take it or leave it.
He works out a contract and calls to come by for me to sign it. OK.
First when he comes, he doesn't have the contract. He's very embarasssed etc. He goes to leave, comes back 2 minutes later. No, he found it in his truck.
Great. I look at it. The buyer has waived the right to inspection, and I ask about this. No, no problem. The contract is contingent on a mortgage loan. OK, he tells me he's aleady got them qualified. Supposed to close later this month (today, in fact).
I sign it, and tell him to send me back a copy. I ask for his business card and he doesn't have any with him.
I never get a copy of the contract, nor can I call him, since I don't have his card.
I get a call from the closing agent last Friday. I have found out in the meantime that this is suppsoed to be an FhA loan. Last time I sold to someone on an FhA, I was bent over at the table and treated like a prison bitch. I told the closing agent I hadn't gotten a copy of the contract and would she please call the Realtor and have him call me. Also told her that while I was prepared to pay the usual seller's charges and what I agreed to for the buyer, if it went beyond that I wasn't having any since I don't need to sell this. Haven't heard from him.

lupinus · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2006, 06:33:34 AM »

aw the joys of selling property

Aint if fun? I always found it so.

The Rabbi · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2006, 07:12:43 AM »

Quote from: lupinus

aw the joys of selling property

Aint if fun? I always found it so.

The good thing here (for me) is that I don't care if I sell it or not. I am just as happy holding on to it.

BozemanMT · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2006, 10:23:53 AM »

i hate incompent realtors and I hate FHA loans (for the exact same reasons as you)
IN fact, given my bad experience, I would not do a FHA again
and incompent realtors would require me to get more money, it's not like it's a hard job.

man, that would drive me crazy.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2006, 11:15:36 AM »

Rabbi,

Are the buyer's paying the agent's fee? If so, the agent is working for them and is only obligated to look out for their interests. If you are not being represented, then the burden falls to you to keep up with the details of your side of the transaction. Not having retained a copy of the contract for your records is no one's fault but your own.

That being said...

I feel lucky that, locally, we only recently started having to deal with individuals from the shadier side of my chosen profession. We have one office in particular that has become very well known for their smoke-and-mirrors techniques. They are also a mortgage broker (dual licensure) and lure folks into their office with "no problem" financing. They pull all kinds of technically legal but very unethical shenanigans. They specialize in taking otherwise unqualified buyers and getting them in under B- and C- paper loads (loans for folks with bad credit). They work it so that the seller ends up footing the bill on all their exhorbitant loan fees.

Did the contract no specify a limit on Seller-funded fees at closing? Most contracts now (at least the one's I am personally aware of) have a paragraph in the contract where you name a "amount not to exceed.." to be applied to buyer's closing costs.

The title company does not represent any party to the contract, they simply enforce it as it is written. You are a party to the transaction. As a result you are entitled to copies of all the contract documents that the title company has on file for the transaction. They can't legally release they buyer's confidential info to you, but they will - or should - provide you with a copy of the contract and all contract addenda they have on file.

As far as closing costs go, the title company may not know them yet. Lenders normally send their final document preparation instructions, including all fees, only a day or two before close. Sometimes they end up getting them the day of close. Those docs will have all the related fees to be associated with the transaction. The closing agent should go over it with you in detail before you sign anything.

Brad

The Rabbi · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2006, 11:23:38 AM »

Brad,
1) I agreed to a certain compensation to the Realtor.
2) I agreed to pay buyer's closing costs to a certain amount.
3) If the Realtor wanted the deal to close, he should have followed through and gotten me a copy of the contract. At least following up. I was responsible to get a termite/pest letter and of course didn't, not remembering when closing was. It isn't a question of who is legally obligated to do what. It is a question of how you get the deal to close. Babysitting it is the only way I have found to make that happen. He didn't do that. I didn't get a pest, he didnt provide a copy of the contract, he neglected to tell me it was an FhA loan, despite the fact that it makes a material difference. He neglected the deal to death. I already indicated I wan't motivated especially to close, but was willing to. He should have taken the hint.
I have dealt with enough competant agents (one) to know what good practice is and what isnt. This isnt.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2006, 11:38:25 AM »

Quote

1) I agreed to a certain compensation to the Realtor.

Was it an agreement for compensation or representation? An agreement for compensation is pretty much (actually is ) identical to simply paying some of the buyer's closing costs. You are footing the bill but the buyer is getting the representation. If it was an agreement for representation. That's a different story, as that would give you all kinds of recourse through TREC (TN Real Estate Commission).

Quote

2) I agreed to pay buyer's closing costs to a certain amount.

Was the "certain amount" spelled out on the contrac? If so, your total contribution to the buyer's closing cost should not, in any case, exceed that amount. If the amount was not specifically stated on the contract, well...

Quote

3) If the Realtor wanted the deal to close, he should have followed through and gotten me a copy of the contract.

Agreed. The agent is not doing a good job - or even a remotely satisfactory job, for that matter. However, if the agent is representing the buyer's interests, then he isn't obligated to make you copies of anything.

I guess I'm a little confused. As finacially prudent as I come to know you from your posts, I would have expected you to be right on top of the transaction from the start - requiring copies of all signed documents while still sitting at the table, checking with the buyer's lender to verify the agent's assertions, checking with the title company regularly to make sure that everything is going smoothly, etc. If figured you would have been all over this thing from the start instead of relying on someone else to feed you information.

Brad

The Rabbi · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2006, 11:55:01 AM »

It reflects my ambivalence at closing. Yes, I could have pursued it more vigorously and yes, I could have made sure it closed on my own. But my wife had a baby about 3 weeks ago and we've had medical issues with him so this was a back-burner. I don't care if it closes. I am happy holding on to the property forever. If I actually needed the money or something I would have been more pro-active.
I also assume that since Realtors get paid when the thing closes, the agent would have been at least motivated, if not more, to get it done. I also attribute a certain, I wont say professionalism, but at least integrity in returning a signed contract copy, having agreed to do so. Maybe I am too trusting of humanity, attributing the ability to use a Xerox machine, stuff an envelope, stamp it and mail it. My expectations are too high, perhaps.
The dollar amount for his compensation (and he still represents the buyer) as well as closing costs was spelled out in the contract.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2006, 02:53:38 PM »

Unfortunately, so agents just don't care to follow up on things after they go under contract. It's a pain. Sorry it's not going like you wanted.

Brad

The Rabbi · « **Reply #9 on:** August 28, 2006, 04:00:56 PM »

Quote from: Brad Johnson

Unfortunately, so agents just don't care to follow up on things after they go under contract. It's a pain. Sorry it's not going like you wanted.

Brad

Or maybe it is. It works out for the best in the end.

Leatherneck · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2006, 02:13:44 AM »

Seems to me that you and your buyer did the hard part of the realtor's job--connecting a buyer with a seller. Why use a real estate agent? Why not just go with an attorney for each who can get the title guarantee and perform the closing?

TC

The Rabbi · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2006, 02:28:03 AM »

Quote from: Leatherneck

Seems to me that you and your buyer did the hard part of the realtor's job--connecting a buyer with a seller. Why use a real estate agent? Why not just go with an attorney for each who can get the title guarantee and perform the closing?

TC

We had a language barrier. I agree that the realtor was unnecessary and a real estate attorney who spoke Spanish would be ideal. But they didnt ask me.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2006, 06:59:34 AM »

Quote

Seems to me that you and your buyer did the hard part of the realtor's job--connecting a buyer with a seller. Why use a real estate agent? Why not just go with an attorney for each who can get the title guarantee and perform the closing

I wouldn't even do that because you will pay attorney's rates for everything - time, forms, filing, etc.. Go go a title company. Since they get a commmission on the title policy, their fee to actually close the transaction is usually quite reasonable.

Brad

The Rabbi · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2006, 07:47:15 AM »

Quote from: Brad Johnson

Quote

Seems to me that you and your buyer did the hard part of the realtor's job--connecting a buyer with a seller. Why use a real estate agent? Why not just go with an attorney for each who can get the title guarantee and perform the closing

I wouldn't even do that because you will pay attorney's rates for everything - time, forms, filing, etc.. Go go a title company. Since they get a commmission on the title policy, their fee to actually close the transaction is usually quite reasonable.

Brad

Here it amounts to the same thing since title companies have to have an attorney associated with them.
The contract called for closing yesterday. Do you think I have heard from the Realtor yet? No. I'll bet I won't either.

Matthew Carberry · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2006, 08:08:44 AM »

Closing was supposed to be yesterday and no one, title officer, mortgage officer or anyone has called you? Setting aside the agent, nobody gets paid if this thing doesn't close.

You might make a note that no one has requested any documentation from you to this point that you have failed to provide in a timely manner.

If the loan falls through and there's earnest money involved, the buyers may try to blame you for delays so they can get their earnest money back. Assuming the contract is written like the ones up here. At the least, if you're out of contract you're going to need a signed extension for the lender.

The Rabbi · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2006, 08:36:23 AM »

Quote from: carebear

Closing was supposed to be yesterday and no one, title officer, mortgage officer or anyone has called you? Setting aside the agent, nobody gets paid if this thing doesn't close.

You might make a note that no one has requested any documentation from you to this point that you have failed to provide in a timely manner.

If the loan falls through and there's earnest money involved, the buyers may try to blame you for delays so they can get their earnest money back. Assuming the contract is written like the ones up here. At the least, if you're out of contract you're going to need a signed extension for the lender.

Right. No one has contacted me, except the agent last Friday.
My position is, I don't give dam. I am just as happy holding on to it and collecting rent. I own it free and clear and am grossing $1150 out of it a month, which will be hard to replace.

The Rabbi · « **Reply #16 on:** September 01, 2006, 01:10:31 PM »

UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE!

So the closing was supposed to be last Mon (28th). Today (9/1) realtor calls me to ask how things are going.
I was stunned.
I told him, you were supposed to send me a copy of the agreement. Yeah, he was doing that now. It was supposed to close last mon. Really? Wow, yeah. Didnt we do an extension on this? How could I do an extension if you never sent me the contract?
Well, he tells me, the appraisal came back short $5,000 so it wouldnt work. Fine.

20 minutes later the loan officer calls. "We're all ready to close Tuesday." I go through the whole business again, pointing out that the appraisal is short. He says, but they want the house and are willing to pay the contract price. I point out it doesnt matter: FhA lends based on the lower of appraisal or contract. I still think we can work it out, he says.
Are people really this incompetant? Really this clueless? These people drive cars. On the street. Is there anything scarier than that?
Yes, my daughter reminds me, there are people out there *even worse.*

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #17 on:** September 01, 2006, 02:12:38 PM »

Quote

Are people really this incompetant?

Yes, they are.

Brad

Sindawe · « **Reply #18 on:** September 01, 2006, 03:58:51 PM »

Quote

Are people really this incompetant? Really this clueless?

Another vote of yes on that. I once watched a guy we'd nick-named 85 fill a 50 ml polystyrene centrifuge tube with dry ice and throw it into the trash. Few minutes later he changed his mind and reached into the trash just as the tube exploded with a satisfying report. Best part was watching him examine his hand to be sure all the fingers were still there.

Devildog · « **Reply #19 on:** September 04, 2006, 06:53:58 AM »

Isn't there any provision for earnest money in the contract? The earnest money should have been delivered with the offer, pending your acceptance, thus making it a contract.

The Rabbi · « **Reply #20 on:** September 04, 2006, 06:59:02 AM »

Quote from: Devildog

Isn't there any provision for earnest money in the contract? The earnest money should have been delivered with the offer, pending your acceptance, thus making it a contract.

Yes there was. They were due the earnest money back since the contract was contingent on closing on time and the property appraising for the sales price, which it didn't. Since the latter wasn't the buyer's fault they retain the earnest money.

News:

Author Topic: Incompetant Realtor Story #2569 (Read 2161 times)