Germany Increases Retirement Age, France Decreases Retirement Age

[Ben]

Interesting short blurb from Victor David Hanson's site.

While I wouldn't expect Germany to "errupt" to see Jackboots marching through Europe, at some point I think even its most liberal citizenry will get fed up at propping up other EU countries and slowly losing its standard of living to pay for it. If Germany tells the EU to get bent, I would expect a worldwide economic ripple effect.

Most of my relatives are still in Germany, and in talking with them it's clear that there is still a "grin while you're being stepped on" mentality there because of WW2 and wanting to make amends, not dissimilar from the "white guilt" culture in the US because of slavery 150 years ago.  At some point enough time passes that people say "we're done paying for the guilt of some of our ancestors" and they will choose not to be taken advantage of because of a now historical event. Again, it doesn't have to be gearing up a war machine. Simply choosing to look after itself rather than surrounding countries would be enough to monkeywrench the EU economy.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/302323/insult-injury-victor-davis-hanson#

[MicroBalrog]

What does "Certain workers" mean? Is that like 0.01% of the work force?

Other than this... holy mother of Torvalds, I agree with VDH.

[HankB]

What does "Certain workers" mean?

Just guessing, but perhaps government employees?

[AJ Dual]

Ant and the Grashopper is playing out in the EU as we speak, except the Grashopper already has a serious sub-lease in the ant's house already.

[RevDisk]

Most of my relatives are still in Germany, and in talking with them it's clear that there is still a "grin while you're being stepped on" mentality there because of WW2 and wanting to make amends, not dissimilar from the "white guilt" culture in the US because of slavery 150 years ago.  At some point enough time passes that people say "we're done paying for the guilt of some of our ancestors" and they will choose not to be taken advantage of because of a now historical event.

Pretty much. It is lunacy to be held accountable for something you could not impact because you were not alive. I can understand being held accountable for doing nothing. But if it was before I was born? Uh, no. I had no hand in it.

[SADShooter]

Pretty much. It is lunacy to be held accountable for something you could not impact because you were not alive. I can understand being held accountable for doing nothing. But if it was before I was born? Uh, no. I had no hand in it.

Here's to seeing your arguments applied credibly to the slave reparations movement in this country.

[slingshot]

I fully expect the retirement age to be raised in the US to 67 during the next presidential term.  I believe it HAS TO HAPPEN in the USA.  We are much more like Germany than France in our fundamental beliefs as a country.

The Japanese are also starting to feel the same way about their history.  What is the next step for China?  Dump communism? 

[MillCreek]

I fully expect the retirement age to be raised in the US to 67 during the next presidential term.  I believe it HAS TO HAPPEN in the USA.  We are much more like Germany than France in our fundamental beliefs as a country.

The Japanese are also starting to feel the same way about their history.  What is the next step for China?  Dump communism? 

My retirement age is already 67 if I want to collect the full Social Security benefit.

[ArfinGreebly]

My retirement age is already 67 if I want to collect the full Social Security benefit.

And mine.

Of course, it will be 70 by the time I get there.

And 72 by the time I get there.

Think of it as Zeno's Retirement Scheme.

[Buzzcook]

If you have high unemployment it makes sense to lower the retirement age. Reduce the labor force and increase the cost of labor.

We're already seeing an increase in SSI disability from workers who would have stayed in the work force, but can't find a job. Might as well make that more general. Reduce the retirement age to 63.

We could pay for it by removing the cap on contributions and treating all compensation as wages.

[Ron]

If you have high unemployment it makes sense to lower the retirement age. Reduce the labor force and increase the cost of labor.

We're already seeing an increase in SSI disability from workers who would have stayed in the work force, but can't find a job. Might as well make that more general. Reduce the retirement age to 63.

We could pay for it by removing the cap on contributions and treating all compensation as wages.

We must tax and spend ourselves into prosperity eh?

Maybe we should really get serious about unemployment and lower the retirement age to 53!

 

[ArfinGreebly]

We must tax and spend ourselves into prosperity eh?

Maybe we should really get serious about unemployment and lower the retirement age to 53!

53?  Do I hear 51?  . . .

[RoadKingLarry]

Make it 50 and I'll go next month

[makattak]

If you have high unemployment it makes sense to lower the retirement age. Reduce the labor force and increase the cost of labor.

We're already seeing an increase in SSI disability from workers who would have stayed in the work force, but can't find a job. Might as well make that more general. Reduce the retirement age to 63.

We could pay for it by removing the cap on contributions and treating all compensation as wages.

Classic fallacy.

The economy is not a zero-sum game. There are not a set number of jobs out there that, once filled, leave absolutely none for anyone else.

[Jamie B]

Make it 50 and I'll go next month

Greece is already there, and nobody pays their taxes, either!

[agricola]

If you have high unemployment it makes sense to lower the retirement age. Reduce the labor force and increase the cost of labor.

Not really, that would only be made to work if you brought in a statutory retirement age and enforced it - which might be an idea for some of the EU states, where youth / young person unemployment rates are between 33% and 50% - though of course whatever government brought it in would probably be kicked out by the grey vote come the next election.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-51-tragedy-a-majority-of-young-greek-workers-are-now-unemployed/254181/

None of this will change anything though; the problems with the Eurozone (and for that matter the EU) are almost certainly terminal and it will need a complete and total rethink of what European integration is meant to achieve before things start to get better. 

[Perd Hapley]

What have we learned from the EU experiment? That nations are real things. That national boundaries are not just arbitrary lines of division that frustrate the brotherhood of man, and provide excuses for war. The nation-state is a concept that developed along with the modern age, as Rome's cosmopolitan world order fell apart. And in a Europe that still wants the pluralism of a post-Reformation world, it still makes sense for people with a shared culture and language to stake out their territory and make decisions about the political, social and economic rules they're willing to live by.

The coal and steel cooperative may have been a good idea back in the day. Maybe it still is. But good fences still make good neighbors.