Black Powder Firearms

[AZRedhawk44]

I want to increase my opportunities for hunt draws, and I think a good way to do that is to put in for black powder hunts.

To do that, I need some black powder guns.  I have prior black powder experience with an Uberti 1851 .36 cal clone, but that firearm is in very poor condition and I really should start anew.  .36 black powder might take down a game animal, but better to go for more mass and power IMO.

My gut and heart tell me to go with a left-handed (gotta go with a southpaw option) Hawken .50 caliber rifle, and an 1858 New Army .44 clone.  But the 1860 Army clone is also an option in .44.  However, the 1860 has a frame with no topstrap, and rear sight mounted in the hammer, much like the 1851.  Didn't really care for that with my prior experience.  The fixed frame of the 1858 eliminates a lot of the fear of the disassembly/reassembly process during each cleaning.  That wedge pin on the 1851/1860 kind of scares me.

Do I go low end with Traditions/Pietta for these?  Or are there any gotchas that end up making such a purchase a regret in the long run? 

[Jim147]

A good inline doesn't care what hand you load it with or pull the trigger.
You need to be really close with a BP pistol.

[AZRedhawk44]

A good inline doesn't care what hand you load it with or pull the trigger.
You need to be really close with a BP pistol.

Understood with the pistol.  Rifle is the higher priority.  Pistol would be carried for cases where a finishing shot would be necessary, if the BP rifle shot wounded and grounded, and reloading the rifle takes longer than approaching and finishing with the pistol.  Game laws in AZ don't allow for finishing shots with centerfire pistols during BP seasons.

[French G.]

I have a Pietta 1858 and I love it, shot pounds of powder through it. Only thing that ever went foul is I dryfired it like a dummy, dinged the hammer up.

[Hawkmoon]

For the revolver, Ruger discontinued the Old Army in 2008. Take your pick between Uberti and Pietta. Both are good,.

[Jim147]

I've sold by black powder pistols so no help there. A good 230-250'grain from an inline should drop them. If they don't drop right there eyes open give them at least a half hour before you go look for them. Plenty of time to reload the smoke pole.

[charby]

I hunt whitetail deer with muzzle loader, currently a CVA .50 Optima topped with a 2-7x32 Burris Fullfield II. I bought the rifled shipped to my door for $239, back in the first year of the Optima and Accura lines were released. I've probably killed 15 deer with it and yet to have one still alive when I go to recover. With a speed loader you can reload an inline rifle in less than 20 seconds. I shoot a 290g Barnes with 110g of Blackhorn 209, I can hit a playing card all day at 150 yards with it, no problem killing a deer drt at 200 yards.

Before this rifle I hunted with a .50 TC Hawken, open sights, fast twist rifle so I shot a .250g sabot round with 100g of pyrodex. I limited my shots to 100 yards with this rifle, but it killed the deer too. I quite hunting with it because it weighed a lot.

Check the game look laws. Some mzl seasons out west are primative mzl where you gave to use iron sights and non inline, where others let you use inline (shotgun primers) and optics.

If you need to go primative, stick with Thompson or Lyman rifles, the other cheaper brands are crap for percussion cap rifles. My TC Hawken was used, saved me a few hundred bucks at the time.

[Ben]

I've not hunted with them, but have shot them a decent amount: Pieta .44 Navy and Lyman Great Plains Rifle .54 (left-handed). Both function well and I've been very happy with them.

For hunting, if you're allowed to do so, Charby gives good info. While it doesn't happen to me a lot, it happens enough that it could be a concern with hunting:  Sometimes the percussion caps don't set off the BP in the rifle. The majority of the times it happens to me at the range is after multiple shots, so it's likely mostly not fully cleaning the barrel and percussion hole or whatever it's called, between shots. The first shot of the day pretty much always goes off.

If I were going after once in a lifetime game, I might go inline if I legally could, especially if you need a fast second shot. Otherwise, traditional rifles are just really cool to shoot. Same with the revolvers.Especially when using real black powder.

[zxcvbob]

Ruger Old Army for the handgun.  I didn't know they stopped making them, so it'll have to be a used one.

[French G.]

As far as caps not lighting the charge I always fire a cap on anything I am going to load and not shoot immediately. My 1858 sat loaded for over a year, all went bang, no corrosion I sure.

[charby]

Double check the game laws, you may not be allowed to.use a bp revolver and only use a single shot mzl pistol.

[charby]

From Arizona game regs

  “Muzzleloading handgun” means a firearm intended to be
fired from the hand, incapable of firing fixed ammunition, and
loaded with black powder or synthetic black powder and a sin-
gle projectile.
“Muzzleloading rifle” means a firearm intended to be fired
from the shoulder, incapable of firing fixed ammunition, hav-
ing a single barrel, and loaded through the muzzle with black
powder or synthetic black powder and a single projectile

I would say a black powder revolver is not legal method of take during a muzzleloader season.

[Jim147]

Glad i can use about anything during alternate season here.

[AZRedhawk44]

Midsouth has nice prices on Lyman muzzleloaders.

I've ordered one.  Made sure I could find my black powder measure prior to ordering, so I don't need to source that.  Got 200 .530 round balls with it.  Just need some fresh Triple 7 or pyrodex, and some patches, and I'm in business.  Can I go old school and just cut up a T-shirt for patches?

[charby]

Midsouth has nice prices on Lyman muzzleloaders.

I've ordered one.  Made sure I could find my black powder measure prior to ordering, so I don't need to source that.  Got 200 .530 round balls with it.  Just need some fresh Triple 7 or pyrodex, and some patches, and I'm in business.  Can I go old school and just cut up a T-shirt for patches?

Need to grease your patches for round balls. Which rifle did you get and what twist rate?

[AZRedhawk44]

Need to grease your patches for round balls. Which rifle did you get and what twist rate?

Great Plains .54 1:60" twist left handed.

What to use for grease?  Avocado oil, no doubt, I'm sure.

[RoadKingLarry]

Powder Valley and get some REAL black powder. For patches the #1 important consideration is 100% cotton. You'll likely want to  try a couple different patch thicknesses and powder charges.
I like my GPR flintlock it's a well engineered rifle. I use the Thompson brand patch lube. You could also go old school and make your own, lots or recipes on the web.

[charby]

Great Plains .54 1:60" twist left handed.

What to use for grease?  Avocado oil, no doubt, I'm sure.

Nice rifle!

Any thick liquid fat could work, but used to use TC Bore Butter. They also sell pre cut and lubricated patches. As RKL said, try different patch thickness and powder loads, you'll get a sweet combo and a very accurate shot.

[AZRedhawk44]

Back to the 1851 for a moment.

Now I have an itch for a holster and belt for it.  Nothing ostentatious or movie-prop like.  Anyone have a good affordable holster maker they like for 1851/1860 single actions, that offers a belt with it, without cartridge loops?

[Hawkmoon]

Back to the 1851 for a moment.

Now I have an itch for a holster and belt for it.  Nothing ostentatious or movie-prop like.  Anyone have a good affordable holster maker they like for 1851/1860 single actions, that offers a belt with it, without cartridge loops?

https://epsaddlery.com/product/1870-slim-jim-holster/

http://www.p-l-m-brand-saddlery.com/pages/slim-jim-holster-1.html

http://www.oldpueblosaddle.com/slim-jim-holsters

https://www.buffaloarms.com/leather-goods-cartridge-belts-cowboy-clothing/cowboy-leather-holsters/california-slim-jim-cowboy-leather-holster-4-3-4-5-1-2-right-hand-olp7506

[Ben]

Back to the 1851 for a moment.

Now I have an itch for a holster and belt for it.  Nothing ostentatious or movie-prop like.  Anyone have a good affordable holster maker they like for 1851/1860 single actions, that offers a belt with it, without cartridge loops?

This is what I use for mine, from Hunter Holsters, who make surprisingly good stuff, surprisingly inexpensively.
https://www.huntercompany.com/

[AZRedhawk44]

From Arizona game regs

  “Muzzleloading handgun” means a firearm intended to be
fired from the hand, incapable of firing fixed ammunition, and
loaded with black powder or synthetic black powder and a sin-
gle projectile.
“Muzzleloading rifle” means a firearm intended to be fired
from the shoulder, incapable of firing fixed ammunition, hav-
ing a single barrel, and loaded through the muzzle with black
powder or synthetic black powder and a single projectile

I would say a black powder revolver is not legal method of take during a muzzleloader season.

Interesting.  I would note some discrepancies that I think are deliberate (since law is a place for deliberateness).

The handgun definition leaves out several things that are present in the rifle definition that pertain to the "muzzleloading" determination.  They leave out the bit about "having a single barrel" for starters.  Leaving a Howdah style pistol as an option, but not a double barrel rifle.  Note that the description of the loading process of the handgun omits "through the muzzle" and makes no mention of a cylinder at all.  The "single projectile" bit is to prohibit the use of shot rather than ball/bullet, and is a component of the description of the load rather than a description of capacity of the firearm.  There are specific prohibitions against handguns shooting shot, probably for waterfowl or fish or something where someone did something stupid once and so now there's a law against it.

Muzzleloading handgun is a legitimate method of taking game during handgun seasons, as well as handgun/archery/muzzleloader seasons... but is not permitted during muzzleloader seasons.  Only rifles during those.

And muzzleloading handgun is okay for all sorts of small game or general hunts.

However, page 12 of this PDF spells out that some labyrinth of legalese somewhere prohibits use of muzzleloading handguns during muzzleloading rifle season.
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon/wp-content/uploads/archive/2020-21-Arizona-Hunting-Regulations-200507.pdf

[Jim147]

A vintage Viking holster found at a gun show is a good choice. I found one for my SAA years ago by luck. I've also have a legend and a Triple K I really like.

[HankB]

If you're going to hunt with a muzzle loader, do it right.

http://www.buckstix.com/howitzer.htm

[AZRedhawk44]

So I finally got out today to go shoot this Lyman GPR.

For those of you familiar with Arizona, I chose an amazing place to go shoot it.  I went out US-60 past Florence Junction, to Hewitt Station Road, and right back against the east face of Whitlow Ranch dam near Queen Valley.  This time of year there's no water back there at all, and several great berms to use as a backstop.  Beautiful scrub oak and mesquite desert riparian canopy to get out of the sun if you really want to, but 65* temps make it just a wonderful day.



Not my pic, but you get the idea.

Starting load was 50 grains of 777 with a .530 round ball.  I shot maybe half a dozen of those, really enjoying the hell out of it.  Great big shyt-eating grin on my face.  Mild.  Very mild.  Alexis even tried that and really enjoyed it.  I bumped the charge up to 60 grains and it was still very mild, and I saw my groups start walking on paper vertically.  I was shooting at about 25 yards, and saw the impact come up about 3/4 of an inch from the extra 10gr of powder.  I walked it gently up to 100gr over several shots, and even 100gr wasn't unbearable by any stretch.  Still very pleasant.  POI came up about 3 inches with a 100gr charge from the 50gr impact.

I can't describe how much I enjoyed shooting that thing.  I could sit outside all day and have an AMAZING time, and shoot maybe 50 rounds.

I really want to get out and get a better feel for it at 100-150 yards.  I think I have a new favorite rifle in the safe.