Author Topic: Surefire battery failure mode?  (Read 3207 times)

Nick1911

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Surefire battery failure mode?
« on: May 22, 2008, 06:05:21 AM »
So I have had an E2e for about 6 months.  I love the light, it's come in handy numerous times.  But, one thing troubles me - the way in which the batteries die.

I'm use to mag-lights.  In a mag light, when the batteries start to get weak, the light deteriorates and yellows.  On my surefire, Ive gone through two sets of batteries.  Both times the batteries have died, there has been *no* indication that they were even getting weak.  Yesterday, I was investigating the attic of a house I'm thinking about buying, and had the light on for ~5 minutes.  The light was bright, clear and strong.  I shut it off, and went somewhere else in the house - when I tried to use the light again - NOTHING!  Not even a hint of life in the filament.  Honestly, it was like the bulb burned out, but it's fine.

I investigated.  A flashlight that I can't depend on is useless to me.  I fired up my power supply to 5.7 volts and tested the bulb - it lit up fine.  I then tested the batteries - about 2.83 volts each.  Low, but you'd think that *somthing* would happen.  I then tried a current test - I set up a direct short circuit through a reliable ammeter - 0.01 Amps.


Has anyone else experienced this failure mode for surefire batteries?  FWIW, the batteries are SureFire brand, as is the flashlight.  What the heck SureFire?  Is there some kind of thermal fuse?  Do other brand 123a's act differently, or is this normal?

K Frame

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2008, 06:19:09 AM »
I think it's just the nature of the creature. Mine used to do that with the original bulb pack.

What I did was replace the bulb with an LED.

Extremely bright, it doesn't just crap out at the drop of a hat like the old one did when the bats went low, and the batteries last for freaking ever now.

Mtnbkr was the one who actually ordered the bulbs; query him for more information.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2008, 06:19:56 AM »
I have had good luck with the Kodak ones "designed" for cameras.  Of course I don't have to pay for them right now. grin Still on my first set on Sure Fire brand batteries in one light and still going strong.  Of course it doesn't get much use.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2008, 06:56:06 AM »
I've heard of rechargeable batteries using circuitry that kills the current if the voltage drops below a certain level.  It's a protection mechanism, the batts can be damaged if they're over-discharged.

Perhaps the lithium CR123s have something similar...?

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2008, 06:59:27 AM »
I think it's just the nature of the creature. Mine used to do that with the original bulb pack.

What I did was replace the bulb with an LED.

Extremely bright, it doesn't just crap out at the drop of a hat like the old one did when the bats went low, and the batteries last for freaking ever now.

Mtnbkr was the one who actually ordered the bulbs; query him for more information.
The LED conversions are great, if you can find one that fits in your flashlight.  Last I checked, they don't make aftermarket LEDs for Surefire Executive series lights like mine or Nick's.

You can get rechargeable cr123s and a compatible incandescent bulb for the Executives.  They don't solve the sudden-death battery problem, but they do make it economical to always keep the light stoked with fully charged batteries.

Ben

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2008, 07:29:47 AM »
As Mike said, I believe it's just inherent in that type of battery. All my devices that use CR123s go out the same way.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2008, 07:37:02 AM »
Same here.  I have CR123s stashed everywhere I might use them: Both vehicles, the house, my camping gear, my camera bag, etc.

Chris

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2008, 07:48:05 AM »
As Mike said, I believe it's just inherent in that type of battery. All my devices that use CR123s go out the same way.

Same for me....My camera just stops working....
One day at a time.

roo_ster

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2008, 07:59:09 AM »
I sent off for a LED replacement bulb & reflector for my Surefire 6P.

Best dang thing I bought since I bought the Surefire to being with.  I go so long between batt changes I can't recall when I last changed them and get 1.5X the lumens.

$10 from Hong Kong, direct to my door!
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roo_ster

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hilljack22

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 08:35:32 AM »
OK,jfruser...
Cough up where you got that LED for $10!

I'm assuming Ebay...

Thanks!!
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roo_ster

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 09:23:07 AM »
Nope, it was a source I discovered at candlepowerforums.com.

There were several vendors, IIRC.

Lemme look & see if I can find the part...
Regards,

roo_ster

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Brad Johnson

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 09:37:46 AM »
I've done the LED replacement in all my AA Maglites.

Aren't CR123's lithium cells?  If so they will produce full voltage and current right up to the end, then keel over dead without warning.  Alkalines, on the other hand, will gradually taper off.

Brad
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Gewehr98

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2008, 09:57:27 AM »
Lithiums are that way, full voltage, and then nothing, vs. the tapering voltage of alkalines as they reach the end of their lives.
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roo_ster

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2008, 10:12:54 AM »
OK,jfruser...
Cough up where you got that LED for $10!

I'm assuming Ebay...

Thanks!!


Hokay, here's the skinny:

I was considering these two:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6090
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6076

I went with 6076

This guy went with the 6090:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=193639&highlight=surefire+6p+led+replacement+modification+reflector

And one of the posters put a video of how he modded his 6P (with the 6090) on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY3bfuxayVw

As a drop-in replacement, neither one allows the bezel to completely screw back on.  Some folks just slip on an O-ring to fill the gap, but hte guy with the video did further mods.

And here is the Mother Of All LED Drop-In Mods for the 6P Thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=193992

Good luck.  I am happy with my Redneck Engineered 6P.






Regards,

roo_ster

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zahc

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2008, 01:20:50 PM »
I might see if I can get a LED for my E2e. I have a Fenix L1P that I bored out to take a CR123. It's much brighter than the E2e yet, for some tasks, the E2e puts out better light even if it's less (and my wife agrees on this).
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mfree

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2008, 03:30:54 AM »
You probably had some heat in the batteries keeping the chemical activity up (wild-ass guess). Turn off the current, heat bleeds off, suddenly there's not enough amperage left to kick off the filament, which *does* require a surge amperage to kick off.

zahc

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Re: Surefire battery failure mode?
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2008, 06:18:49 AM »
I forgot to add, that all my lithium flashlights also quit on me like that. Half the time I suspect the bulb, because it goes from working to completely not working at all instantly.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
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