Wash out of Military Enlistment, no guns for you.

[AZRedhawk44]

From http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Gun

But, you know, if I could say something right now, that something is drastically wrong with what's going on in our United States right now. And when an individual is turned down to get into the military and then can be -- is able to go out and buy a .9-millimeter Glock pistol, and he had one of the -- or his clips were the extended clips that were limited to law enforcement only, and, you know, that -- or somebody has to put a stop to that.

    * Bill Badger, U.S. Army Colonel (retired) who helped capture Jared Lee Loughner during the 2011 Tucson shooting — Wolf Blitzer. "Alleged Arizona Gunman in Court", The Situation Room, CNN, January 9, 2011. URL accessed on 2011-01-11.

Wash out of MEPS or other military enlistment programs, for anything other than PHYSICAL health reasons... it goes on your NICS file.

Doesn't affect flat feet or overweight folks, or anyone with sub-par vision.

What does APS think of it?

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

The Col is an idiot.

[MicroBalrog]

In short: no.

[BridgeRunner]

What does APS think of it?

As has been discussed here many times, it's not smart to go on tv or radio, particularly not regarding a highly current and controversial subject, without substantial preparation and coaching.  Perhaps there was an assumption on his part that the guy had been clearly identified by MEPS as a danger to himself or others?  Perhaps that was the case?  I don't know, but he may have known or inferred more than he stated, a very, very common mistake in people who aren't experienced at presenting stuff via mass-media to a very broad audience.

[Devonai]

It's pointless to discuss it without knowing why he was denied an enlistment.  However, unless the denial involved abhorrent behavior that was actually witnessed by recruiters/processing station personnel, any sort of referral to law enforcement would be inappropriate.

[BobR]

The Col is an idiot.

That

and this

In short: no.

You guys used my answers already.

bob

[Gowen]

A Dr. prescribed drug my mother was taking while pregnant with me, caused me to be born without my right breast mussel and the chicken pox when I was 5 caused me to be deaf in my left ear.  So, that would make me unable to serve in the military.  This clown thinks that I should not be able to protect myself!!!  He's a moron.

[Bogie]

I doubt that he's a moron... He just didn't completely flesh out the thought. I'm guessing that what he actually meant was "If the military thinks that you're too damn crazy to be an 11-Bang-Bang, society sure as hell shouldn't trust you with a boomstick."
 
Works for me.

[KD5NRH]

Wash out of MEPS or other military enlistment programs, for anything other than PHYSICAL health reasons... it goes on your NICS file.

That might be a bit much, but I wouldn't object if they forwarded any information obtained that clearly identifies a disqualifying 4473 question 12 answer.  There is already a need for a correction/update process for NICS information, so implementation of such a process should be a precondition for storing any of the information that can change.

(12e. "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?" would have been the disqualifier in this case, assuming the reasons given for his rejection were accurate.  Given that addiction status can change without any documentable process, I'd say this disqualifier should be automatically time limited at around 5 years overall, or 9 consecutive months of clean screenings.)

[BridgeRunner]

I doubt that he's a moron... He just didn't completely flesh out the thought. I'm guessing that what he actually meant was "If the military thinks that you're too damn crazy to be an 11-Bang-Bang, society sure as hell shouldn't trust you with a boomstick."

Um. Hell to the no.  Pretty sure taking any medication can be disqualifying.  You really thinking being SSRI-dependent should disqualify someone from exercising his 2A rights?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The Laughner dude was a serious pothead.  That's what disqualified him from enlisting.

Say what you will about current drug and gun laws, had those laws actually been enforced, he wouldn't have been able to buy that Glock.

"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, depressants, stimulants, narcotics..."

[KD5NRH]

Um. Hell to the no.  Pretty sure taking any medication can be disqualifying.  You really thinking being SSRI-dependent should disqualify someone from exercising his 2A rights?

The word "addiction" on the 4473 is there for a reason.  Addiction and dependence are recognized as distinct conditions, hence the distinct lack of medical references to Plavix or insulin addicts, despite their withdrawal symptoms being somewhat more dramatic than, say, nicotine withdrawal.

[Bogie]

I'll say it again.
 
Too.
 
Damn.
 
Crazy.
 

[KD5NRH]

I'll say it again.
 
Too.
 
Damn.
 
Crazy.

That would be 12f, and you only have to answer it once.   

[dm1333]

I doubt that he's a moron... He just didn't completely flesh out the thought. I'm guessing that what he actually meant was "If the military thinks that you're too damn crazy to be an 11-Bang-Bang, society sure as hell shouldn't trust you with a boomstick."
 
Works for me.

This doesn't work for me.  There are plenty of reasons to not get accepted for enlistment.  There should only be a few reasons to not be able to buy a gun.  

[Bogie]

So... Does "too damn crazy to join the military" carry any weight?
 
And then there was one guy in my basic training company who had a very cool room temp IQ, and I honestly wouldn't mind if he got tagged for a no-NICS... And no, he didn't make it through basic... Not only dumb, but paranoid about it...

[BridgeRunner]

The word "addiction" on the 4473 is there for a reason.  Addiction and dependence are recognized as distinct conditions, hence the distinct lack of medical references to Plavix or insulin addicts, despite their withdrawal symptoms being somewhat more dramatic than, say, nicotine withdrawal.

Disqualifying from military service that is.  My understanding is that it's not an addiction issue at all, but an adaptability and durability issue.  Am I not correct on this?  It's been about seven years since I last seriously combed through enlistment information.

[BridgeRunner]

I'll say it again.
 
Too.
 
Damn.
 
Crazy.
 

Being too crazy to join the military is a pretty low threshold of crazy, and apparently getting lower all the time. 

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Um. Hell to the no.  Pretty sure taking any medication can be disqualifying.  You really thinking being SSRI-dependent should disqualify someone from exercising his 2A rights?

Any medication?  What about folks on insulin?  People on pain management meds.?  Or folks on welbutrion and such.  I wasn't aware being on some form of legally prescribed med would forfeit your 2A right.

[Tallpine]

Being too crazy to join the military is a pretty low threshold of crazy, and apparently getting lower all the time. 

What about being crazy enough to join the military?  



Asthma and a high lottery number kept me from going to VN.

[Bogie]

It takes a pretty severe degree of "too damn crazy" to get told "Uh... Maybe you should consider work down at the nut factory..."
 

[Hawkmoon]

What does APS think of it?

I think that's one retired colonel who would never have made general, and who seriously needs a course in remedial English.

What did he say, anyway? It certainly didn't make any sense.

[Bogie]

The one guy who I knew who was washed out without effort on his part (the really dumb guy...) was REALLY dumb, and REALLY weird. The DIs talked to us, and basically said that they had no idea how he'd gotten past the recruiters, etc., and that someone was probably going to be in some serious trouble somewhere along the line.
 
And the people who washed out through their own effort... Well, it takes WORK to flunk out of the Army...
 

[RoadKingLarry]

We had one clown in boot that "washed out", sort of. Actually they came in with 6 big MAAs and the CC put us on the line. The big guys walked up behind him and with out warning tackled him and placed him in some serious retraints. He was pretty much foaming at the mouth as they drug him out.
We'd been there about a week when this happened.
The story was that he had killed some poor slob, buried the body and stolen his ID and used it to enlist.

So yeah that guy probably shouldn't be able to own a gun.

As for other reasons for getting washed out, unless it is felony level or severe mental issues then we probably don't need another reason to deny people the right to self defense.

[BridgeRunner]

Bogie, I'm pretty sure MEPS level washouts were specifically mentioned.  It is incredibly easy to wash out at MEPS; they are working pretty hard to limit liability these days.