Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Thor on July 18, 2009, 11:16:16 AM
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If y'all don't mind, I would appreciate that y'all would not use the term "Liberal" in a derogatory manner.
I ask this because our founding fathers were "Liberals".
I think that the more appropriate term for today's left winged politicians would be "Progressives". Thanks in advance.
Your input/debate is welcome.
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You are right, of course, but as times change so do the meanings of words. For example, the word "men" clearly means something now it didn't in better times for America.
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I think that the more appropriate term for today's left winged politicians would be "Progressives".
Sorry, Thor, but I've got to disagree with you. The only "progress" the self-styled "progressives" are making is toward turning America into another East Germany.
I call them "leftist extremists." I suspect "Marxists" might be better because shorter and indicative of their philosophical origins, though it doesn't feel sufficiently perjorative to me.
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Sorry, Thor, but I've got to disagree with you. The only "progress" the self-styled "progressives" are making is toward turning America into another East Germany.
I call them "leftist extremists." I suspect "Marxists" might be better because shorter and indicative of their philosophical origins, though it doesn't feel sufficiently perjorative to me.
I can understand the use of other terms, such as you've described. That's not a problem. I just think that it's disrespectful to our heritage and our founding fathers to use the term "Liberal" as a pejorative.
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Our side, with the exception of a few on talk radio and some internet commentators, refuses to call the Left what it is and treat it with the righteous rancor it deserves. This is in large part why we find ourselves in the position we are in right now: up against the wall and negotiating, in desperation, with an armed mugger who will first take our wallet and then blow our brains out with nary a regret.
The people in politics who should know better are either too feckless or too comfortable to make the case and take the stand that is needed to save what's left of America and the Founders' vision. I am still hopeful that We the People will rise to the occasion, but first We the People will have to turn off Oprah.
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The term "progressives" was one the socialist-leaning types in the early 1900's created for themselves, as "socialist" wouldn't sell as well.
Using "progressive" as a label for today's liberals gives them the cachet of vision and ideals, neither of which they possess.
Until we can get the media to use the term "socialist," I think we're stuck with "liberal."
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How about thieves, given that the essence of liberalism inheres in taking someone else's property?
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Using "progressive" as a label for today's liberals gives them the cachet of vision and ideals, neither of which they possess.
Look up the ideals the progressives actually believed in. They were so obscenely evil I have no problem with using "Progressive" as a pejorative.
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Semantics, Thor.
Terminology changes over time. Today's Liberal has little or nothing to do with the Liberals or Whigs of two centuries ago.
No different than when gangbangers show up at my range and want to know where they can find 7.62 ammo for their SKS rifles.
In my day, 7.62 meant 7.62mm NATO, aka 7.62x51/.308 Winchester.
Language as a rule evolves over time.
Luckily for us, Ebonics never really took off.
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"Leftist" is the term we (and the media) should be using. Calling them "liberal" or "progressive" grants them the moral high-ground, and is patently biased when used by journalists.
Yes, I recognize that "left" is not perfect either, but "socialist," "statist," and "authoritarian" are seen as pejorative, so...
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According to their policy results, "liberal" is actually the antonym of "progress"....
Luckily for us, Ebonics never really took off.
Word up..... :cool:
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Yo. :lol:
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I agree that "liberal" is a value that the Founding Fathers had. I also agree that most of the politicians calling themselves liberal these days are anything but.
How can you be liberal, in the sense of being tolerant and nonrepressive, if you're actively trying to repress right to keep and bear arms. How can you be liberal if you are actively trying to repress free speech by sensorship under the guise of "hate speech", "racism", and "not politically correct" ?
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For example, the word "men" clearly means something now it didn't in better times for America.
:lol:
Now there's a word that has become more liberal: it's much more inclusive! Anybody can make the team under the new rules.
:cool:
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Yo. :lol:
[The Bursar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bursar)]Yo-yo?[/The Bursar]
:laugh: =D
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Thanks to the efforts of Limbaugh the term "liberal" has come to mean everything and hence nothing in particular. Those who at one time would refer to themselves as "liberal" needed another term. Terms like "fabian socialist" or "socialist" or "marxist" or "fascist" or "statist" are far to explicit and generally understood to be adopted so they reached into the past and pulled up "progressive", a term not generally understood by little people. They could then proceed to infuse whatever definitions they needed to make their case to today's masses. Now we find Glen Beck busily doing to "progressive" as Limbaugh did to "liberal".
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Periodically, we hear conservatives (in speeches, on radio shows, on internet fora) give the lecture about how we should stop calling them "liberals," or "progressives." Usually, folks agree, applaud, etc. But we go on calling them liberals and progressives.
We will continue to be handicapped until we take this seriously. We say they are violating the basic human right to self defense. We say they are wrecking prosperity by their assault on private property. We say they are destroying black America with welfare and soft bigotry. We say they are creating an underclass of Hispanic illegals. We say they are turning a blind eye to the murder of embryos. We accuse them of all manner of evils, from persecuting smokers to the federal tyranny over local school districts. But we keep calling them liberals and progressives.
In case after case, we all agree that they are working to pull down specific American institutions, American traditions, American prosperity and American principles. Yet when some dare to call them anti-American, the more "responsible" members of our own number object to this as inflammatory language. No, we dare not question their patriotism. That would be out of bounds. Never mind that their campaign to change America into un-America is very real.
Thanks to the efforts of Limbaugh the term "liberal" has come to mean everything and hence nothing in particular.
What exactly did Limbaugh do to "liberal"? ???
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Around my neck of the woods, it's usually referred to as "Tax & Spend Liberals".
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Tax & Spend & Ban & Censor & Abort & Lie & Restrict & Steal & Subvert & Cheat Liberals.
I think I've got everything covered except maybe sinking the Normandy.
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I usually don't have a lot to say here. Think I'll drop this in though.
I see our founding fathers as Libertarians. Those who cherish liberty, freedom, and self reliance. Free from the fetters of an oppressive government.
Those that are usually referred to as Liberals: Anything goes, if it feels good do it, the government knows best and if they don't we do know whats best for you and the government should do what we think is best for you. Do not resist. You will be assimilated into the collective. Etc...
just my way of seeing things.
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My cognitive dissonance with the term "Progressive" ended when I learned that Marx thought there was a natural progression through capitalism to communism. Progressives work toward that goal.
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Periodically, we hear conservatives (in speeches, on radio shows, on internet fora) give the lecture about how we should stop calling them "liberals," or "progressives." Usually, folks agree, applaud, etc. But we go on calling them liberals and progressives.
We will continue to be handicapped until we take this seriously. We say they are violating the basic human right to self defense. We say they are wrecking prosperity by their assault on private property. We say they are destroying black America with welfare and soft bigotry. We say they are creating an underclass of Hispanic illegals. We say they are turning a blind eye to the murder of embryos. We accuse them of all manner of evils, from persecuting smokers to the federal tyranny over local school districts. But we keep calling them liberals and progressives.
In case after case, we all agree that they are working to pull down specific American institutions, American traditions, American prosperity and American principles. Yet when some dare to call them anti-American, the more "responsible" members of our own number object to this as inflammatory language. No, we dare not question their patriotism. That would be out of bounds. Never mind that their campaign to change America into un-America is very real.
+1
Fascism, however, euphemized, is fascism.
Ebonics didn't take root? Not literally, but talk to many young people and read their "texting" messages and it might as well have.
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Yes, I recognize that "left" is not perfect either, but "socialist," "statist," and "authoritarian" are seen as pejorative, so...
Pejorative is a bad thing? Does anyone really expect me to be polite to people who've made it abundantly clear they intend to turn me into a disarmed, silenced serf of the state?
In plain English, I loathe, detest, despise, and plain old-fashioned hate them. If real liberals took liberty seriously, they'd hate them, too, instead of being suckered into polite discourse while the avowed enemies of freedom keep chipping away at it.
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I agree with stopping to use 'liberals'. Mainly because liberals in Germany are comparatively pro-free-market. Progressiv3es also sounds bad to me since it is hard to explain that progress can be something bad. In German, I use "Sozis" as abbreviation for either "Sozialisten" or "Sozialdemokraten". "Statist" sounds wierd to me as well, since the term in German means a very minor role in a movie. Thus I normally say "left-wing".
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Pejorative is a bad thing? Does anyone really expect me to be polite to people who've made it abundantly clear they intend to turn me into a disarmed, silenced serf of the state?
No, I don't expect you to be polite. I was talking about what journalists, and others who claim to be objective ought to call them.
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liberals in Germany are comparatively pro-free-market.
To the rest of the world, "liberal" still means what is used to mean to us. All the more reason not to use it to refer to socialists.
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I think statist and fascist are the best and most appropriate terms for the real enemy. A lot of the liberals are just soft travelers and enablers.
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To the rest of the world, "liberal" still means what is used to mean to us. All the more reason not to use it to refer to socialists.
Now you made me interested: What does the equivalent of liberals mean in different countries? Is it only the USA which has 'Liberals 2.0 - now without liberty'? =)
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Pretty much. Although the international definition of liberal might not be entirely pro-freedom, that's the connotation.
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What's wrong with using the term "classical liberal" to differentiate the types of folks who were present at our nation's founding from the socialist, statist enemies of liberty we now call liberals?
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I think statist and fascist are the best and most appropriate terms for the real enemy. A lot of the liberals are just soft travelers and enablers.
Well said....maybe we can differentiate by calling them "liberal fascists" and "liberal collaborators"....
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"Liberal" has come to have a lot of unpleasant connotations - for example, a "liberal" is seen as one who claims moral authority to apportion wealth to those he believes are more deserving than those who worked for, earned, or created that wealth; in many quarters, "liberal" is almost synonymous with "thief."
So the leftists are trying - hard - to use the term "progressive," safe in the knowledge that products of publik skool will not know the historic basis of the term "progressive" as applied to various marxist/fascist/totalitarian regiemes.
. . . but as times change so do the meanings of words. For example, the word "men" clearly means something now it didn't in better times for America.
Ditto for the word "gay."
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Instead of progressive I suggest the Left use the term ingestive.