Teacher suffers miscarriage breaking up school brawl

[41magsnub]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/Teacher--111665299.html

Short article, but I'm of the mind that these students should have criminal charges brought against them: manslaughter or some flavor of murder for the baby and assault for the mother.

Not diminishing that, but what is a pregnant woman doing trying to break up a fight?

[vaskidmark]

Apparently a teacher dedicated to her students and the concept of learning as opposed to brawling over who gets to sit in which chair.

A cursory glance at NYS law says the kids are not going to get charged with any sort of homicide, as NYS does not recognize a fetus as a human being.  (Not going to comment on that one way or another - their state, their law.)

http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0125.10_125.10.html
§ 125.10 Criminally negligent homicide.
    A  person  is  guilty  of  criminally  negligent  homicide  when, with
  criminal negligence, he causes the death of another person.
    Criminally negligent homicide is a class E felony.

http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0125.05_125.05.html
§ 125.05 Homicide, abortion and related offenses; definitions of terms.
    The following definitions are applicable to this article:
    1. "Person," when referring to the victim of a homicide, means a human
  being who has been born and is alive.
    2.  "Abortional  act" means an act committed upon or with respect to a
  female, whether by another person or by the female herself, whether  she
  is   pregnant  or  not,  whether  directly  upon  her  body  or  by  the
  administering, taking or prescription of drugs or in any  other  manner,
  with intent to cause a miscarriage of such female.
    3. "Justifiable abortional act." An abortional act is justifiable when
  committed  upon  a  female with her consent by a duly licensed physician
  acting (a) under a reasonable belief that such is necessary to  preserve
  her  life, or, (b) within twenty-four weeks from the commencement of her
  pregnancy. A pregnant female's commission  of  an  abortional  act  upon
  herself  is justifiable when she acts upon the advice of a duly licensed
  physician (1) that such act is necessary to preserve her life,  or,  (2)
  within  twenty-four  weeks  from  the commencement of her pregnancy. The
  submission by a female to an abortional  act  is  justifiable  when  she
  believes that it is being committed by a duly licensed physician, acting
  under  a  reasonable  belief  that such act is necessary to preserve her
  life,  or,  within  twenty-four  weeks  from  the  commencement  of  her
  pregnancy.

stay safe.

[Ned Hamford]

No worries, the school administration is taking care of things.

"The two students involved in the fight have been suspended."
 

[stevelyn]

Not smart getting involved with breaking up a brawl, especially between high school students when you're knocked up.

[HankB]

Which student started the fight?

I don't know exactly what transpired, but when I was in high school and a fight occured, most of the time it was ONE of the students who initiated it. If the original fight was a case of someone pushing back against a bully who got physical, it seems to me that the onus should be on the bully, not both students.

[Hawkmoon]

Not diminishing that, but what is a pregnant woman doing trying to break up a fight?

Her job?

[Hawkmoon]

Which student started the fight?

I don't know exactly what transpired, but when I was in high school and a fight occured, most of the time it was ONE of the students who initiated it. If the original fight was a case of someone pushing back against a bully who got physical, it seems to me that the onus should be on the bully, not both students.

That's how it was when I was in school, too  ... 50 years ago. You must not have been paying attention. For the past several years, most (if not all) schools have adopted "zero tolerance" policies against violence that punish a victim who has the temerity to defend him/herself as severely as they punish the assailant. It makes zero sense, of course, but zero tolerance policies aren't supposed to make sense. They are intended to relieve administrators of any need for analysis and rational evaluation.

[CNYCacher]

Short article, but I'm of the mind that these students should have criminal charges brought against them: manslaughter or some flavor of murder for the baby and assault for the mother.

If they actually meant to "assault" her, then I might agree.  Wading into a fight (or trying to break one up) is a sure way to get an errant elbow to the face or body, even the elbow of someone who would never do that to you intentionally.

[MechAg94]

That's how it was when I was in school, too  ... 50 years ago. You must not have been paying attention. For the past several years, most (if not all) schools have adopted "zero tolerance" policies against violence that punish a victim who has the temerity to defend him/herself as severely as they punish the assailant. It makes zero sense, of course, but zero tolerance policies aren't supposed to make sense. They are intended to relieve administrators of any need for analysis and rational evaluation.

I think it is also partly considered insulation against lawsuits. 

[HankB]

That's how it was when I was in school, too  ... 50 years ago. You must not have been paying attention. For the past several years, most (if not all) schools have adopted "zero tolerance" policies against violence that punish a victim who has the temerity to defend him/herself as severely as they punish the assailant. It makes zero sense, of course, but zero tolerance policies aren't supposed to make sense. They are intended to relieve administrators of any need for analysis and rational evaluation.

One of my cousins' kids heard something similar at an assembly in his high school - they insisted that in case of a fight, it didn't matter who STARTED the fight, BOTH would be suspended. Any questions?

So the kid stood up and asked if there were ANY exceptions - for example, self defense. The answer was a resounding "NO!"

So the kid said "So, in view of the ironclad "no exceptions" policy, hypothetically speaking, students that are willing to be suspended themselves could get a TEACHER OR ADMINISTRATOR suspended as well by walking up to them in the hallway and punching them in the nose. Thank you for going on record with that "No Exceptions" policy."

The administrators were NOT amused. 

(And if you think about it, if "ZERO TOLERANCE - NO EXCEPTIONS" really IS the policy, the teacher who intervened should be suspended, too.)

[Boomhauer]

That's how it was when I was in school, too  ... 50 years ago. You must not have been paying attention. For the past several years, most (if not all) schools have adopted "zero tolerance" policies against violence that punish a victim who has the temerity to defend him/herself as severely as they punish the assailant. It makes zero sense, of course, but zero tolerance policies aren't supposed to make sense. They are intended to relieve administrators of any need for analysis and rational evaluation.

Oh no, it gets better. Even without any resistance of the victim, they are still suspended. That's right, for having the temerity to be a victim and not raise a hand in resistance, you will still be punished.

[AZRedhawk44]

Oh no, it gets better. Even without any resistance of the victim, they are still suspended. That's right, for having the temerity to be a victim and not raise a hand in resistance, you will still be punished.

Yup.

Even back in the 90's it was like this.  I got forced into a fight in 7th grade.  I didn't throw a single punch and all I did was block punches the entire time (I had studied karate for a few years at this point and was pretty good even back then... kid didn't touch me and I consciously chose not to hit him, so I could avoid punishment).  A teacher finally breaks up the fight and takes us both down to the office.

Exact same punishment for both of us in the principal's office.

I remember distinctly telling the principal that if this was his precedent and there was a next time, I'd expect the paramedics to take the other kid to meet me at in-school suspension once they were done setting his bones.

The principal didn't care for that answer and we had a long, drawn out discussion about morality and punishments.  We didn't end it seeing eye to eye, to say the least.

I think that's one of the defining elements of my life that makes me hate/loathe/abhor the irrationality of authority figures.