Why police have a P.R. problem

[Hawkmoon]

Or, Why no-knock and knock-and-enter warrants should be outlawed:

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/09/15/apology-issued-after-officers-raid-wrong-home/

Another case of the police raiding an address long after the person they were looking for had vacated the premises. It's nice of the police to repair the damage (IMHO that's the least they should do, but their apology falls a bit short of the mark:

“We got some pretty detailed information from (an) informant,” police spokeswoman Heidi Davidson said, according to the Associated Press. “The name we were given was associated with the address. It just wasn’t current.”

Yeah, no *expletive deleted*it, Sherlock.

[KD5NRH]

So,

• How long would it have taken some rookie or light-duty cop to observe and figure out something ain't right
• If it was right, pick everybody up when they leave and "raid" the place when it's empty

[Firethorn]

Another case of the police raiding an address long after the person they were looking for had vacated the premises. It's nice of the police to repair the damage (IMHO that's the least they should do, but their apology falls a bit short of the mark:

Sadly, this is actually the police department going beyond the median for damage caused raiding the wrong house, or an otherwise innocent party.  Normally you have to sue to so much as get them to repair the door they busted bashing their way in, carpet burns from the flashbangs, etc...

Personally, I think that police should be as responsible for any damage they do as contractors and cleaners and such are responsible.  Including, if they cause disproportionate damage - IE if they do a SWAT raid and total a $100k house, but in court the occupants only get a $50 fine for possessing a gram or so of pot, the fine comes OUT of the damages, but the police still owe $99,950.

[KD5NRH]

Personally, I think that police should be as responsible for any damage they do as contractors and cleaners and such are responsible.  Including, if they cause disproportionate damage - IE if they do a SWAT raid and total a $100k house, but in court the occupants only get a $50 fine for possessing a gram or so of pot, the fine comes OUT of the damages, but the police still owe $99,950.

Problem there is that it needs to come out of their actual budget, not just more money taken from the taxpayers.  They get to drive the same old cruisers twice as long, reduce officer benefits, etc.

[lupinus]

Problem there is that it needs to come out of their actual budget, not just more money taken from the taxpayers.  They get to drive the same old cruisers twice as long, reduce officer benefits, etc.

I second the motion.


Sent from my iPhone. Freaking autocorrect.

[Hawkmoon]

Maybe the officer who actually prepares the application for the warrant and the supervisor who actually signs off on it should be required to pay the damages out of their own salaries. Why should the entire department be hamstrung because a couple of people were too lazy to bother checking the facts they wrote into their affidavit?

[RoadKingLarry]

Thank $diety all the cops got to go home safe and sound that day.

Hey, no dogs got shot so not a total failure on the cops.
Good thing no one at the address was armed.

[MechAg94]

“Believe me, our officers and deputies are extremely committed to accuracy, and no one wants to make a mistake like that,” Grand Junction Police Chief John Camper said.

Ummm.....no, you are not committed to accuracy and apparently you don't have an issue with a mistake like that or you wouldn't be trying make excuses. 

[Firethorn]

Problem there is that it needs to come out of their actual budget, not just more money taken from the taxpayers.  They get to drive the same old cruisers twice as long, reduce officer benefits, etc.

I've proposed setting up a bonus fund before - basically, the government deposits a certain amount of money into the fund each year.  Any claims/settlements/judgements are paid for out of said fund first.  Then, if any is remaining, it's distributed to the police as a bonus for NOT landing the city in hot water.  Perhaps have a measure where the bonus comes out of the responsible officers' portions first.

[KD5NRH]

Perhaps have a measure where the bonus comes out of the responsible officers' portions first.

Or a breakdown for everybody; this is how much you would have gotten, and a list of the incidents and how much each took from your bonus.  Then lock them all in a room for an hour, with socks, soap and blankets and let the problems sort themselves out.

[Jamisjockey]

So,

• How long would it have taken some rookie or light-duty cop to observe and figure out something ain't right
• If it was right, pick everybody up when they leave and "raid" the place when it's empty

Because muh drugz!!!  And muh militarized toyz!!!

What's scary about this bullshit is I have absolutely no reason to believe that the police would ever have just cause to come through my door.  Therefore, anyone kicking in my door yelling police is a liar, and I have just cause to open fire on them.  Thus, I immediately become a criminal threat and probably get dead for my trouble for firing on the police if it's actually them.

[lupinus]

Because muh drugz!!!  And muh militarized toyz!!!

What's scary about this bullshit is I have absolutely no reason to believe that the police would ever have just cause to come through my door.  Therefore, anyone kicking in my door yelling police is a liar, and I have just cause to open fire on them.  Thus, I immediately become a criminal threat and probably get dead for my trouble for firing on the police if it's actually them.

And even if you don't get dead, you will almost certainly find yourself arrested in a you piece of *expletive deleted*it you just tried to blow my *expletive deleted*ing head off/shot my buddy *ahem* perfectly professional and by the book fashion, and then railroaded by the legally system and end up in jail greated by the guards as a scumbag cop killer *ahem ahem* receive a perfectly fair trial. In which I am sure the dipshited breaking and entering by jackasses in uniform *final ahem* honest mistake my our fine civil servants will be weighed justly in the course of events.

[Hawkmoon]

What's scary about this bullshit is I have absolutely no reason to believe that the police would ever have just cause to come through my door.  Therefore, anyone kicking in my door yelling police is a liar, and I have just cause to open fire on them.  Thus, I immediately become a criminal threat and probably get dead for my trouble for firing on the police if it's actually them.

Quoted for truth. And therein lies the (or one of the) problem(s).

This is why I firmly believe that no-knock and so-called "knock-and-enter" warrants absolutely should not be allowed except in situations involving known violent felons who are known to be armed and dangerous. And, even then, the judges should be required to hold the applicant department's collective feet to the fire to be double-D damned certain that they really have the correct address and that they really know the person they're after is inside. I'm drawing a blank trying to remember the name of the organization, but one of the major civil rights foundations has a web site that tracks raids on wrong addresses. There are a LOT of them ... way too many to be tolerated.

[EDIT] Found it -- The Cato Institute: Pay attention to the color coding.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap

[lupinus]

Quoted for truth. And therein lies the (or one of the) problem(s).

This is why I firmly believe that no-knock and so-called "knock-and-enter" warrants absolutely should not be allowed except in situations involving known violent felons who are known to be armed and dangerous. And, even then, the judges should be required to hold the applicant department's collective feet to the fire to be double-D damned certain that they really have the correct address and that they really know the person they're after is inside. I'm drawing a blank trying to remember the name of the organization, but one of the major civil rights foundations has a web site that tracks raids on wrong addresses. There are a LOT of them ... way too many to be tolerated.

[EDIT] Found it -- The Cato Institute:

http://www.cato.org/raidmap

Agree. And even with warrant in hand they damn well better recon the place to ensure the guy they are after is the one actually at the place they are raiding.

I mean hell that alone would probably solve 99% of the issues with no knocks. Stake the place out/recon it and make sure you are targeting the right place at the right time. I might not end up dead or on trial for it but frankly I don't like the idea of police showing up at my apartment with a warrant to tear through my stuff, terrorize my wife, and probably end up shooting the yappy little dog with to much attitude. All till they are satisfied whoever was naughty aint here and aint gonna be here, because they are to lazy and stupid to figure that out to start with.

[Hawkmoon]

Agree. And even with warrant in hand they damn well better recon the place to ensure the guy they are after is the one actually at the place they are raiding.

Exactly. There are far too many raids where the "person of interest" moved out multiple months before the raid, and the occupants at the time of the raid had had time to execute a lease or a purchase, move in, and establish residence. Many of these type of incident involve periods of four to six months, maybe more. How sloppy can police work be if they can't figure out that the person they're looking for hasn't lived at that address for half a YEAR? This is why I think much of the blame lies with the judges who sign off on these things. How hard is it to ask, "And when did you last check to verify who is actually living at this address today?"

[zxcvbob]

Exactly. There are far too many raids where the "person of interest" moved out multiple months before the raid, and the occupants at the time of the raid had had time to execute a lease or a purchase, move in, and establish residence. Many of these type of incident involve periods of four to six months, maybe more. How sloppy can police work be if they can't figure out that the person they're looking for hasn't lived at that address for half a YEAR? This is why I think much of the blame lies with the judges who sign off on these things. How hard is it to ask, "And when did you last check to verify who is actually living at this address today?"

Why wouldn't they be sloppy?  There is no accountability when they screw up. 

[Perd Hapley]

Another one:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-officer-charged-with-fabricating-story-that-black-man-shot-her/ar-BBwyRoK?OCID=ansmsnnews11

[Hawkmoon]

Another one:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-officer-charged-with-fabricating-story-that-black-man-shot-her/ar-BBwyRoK?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Hmmm ...

That department either has a limited budget for ammunition, or the reporter needs some skoolin' about firearms:

The GBI says Hall made a police radio call early on Sept.13, and said she had been shot. Hall said she saw a black man near a woodline while she was on routine patrol, and she approached him to ask him why he was there. He became argumentative and shot her, she claimed. She said she fired two shots at the suspect with the Glock .22 issued to her by the Jackson Police Department, but said he fled into the woods.

Note the decimal point ...