Author Topic: Bible Scholars Needed (Read 2733 times)

El Tejon · « **on:** December 15, 2005, 02:46:07 AM »

Is there any reference in The Bible to an incident where a person did a great crime but then later attempted to deflect blame by claiming that an another innocent person was involved as well???

TIA.

The Rabbi · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2005, 04:26:50 AM »

Yes. Odom and Chava (Adam and Eve in common talk). When Gd asked him why he had eaten of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge (no apples here,btw) he replied that "the woman you gave me gave me the fruit and I ate" thereby trying to deflect blame to both Eve and Gd Himself.
Didnt work, as I remember.

mhdishere · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2005, 04:28:46 AM »

Well, there's Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, after eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil God asked Adam about it, he replied that Eve gave him the fruit and he ate it, when God asked Eve she said the serpent beguiled her and she ate. In this case they weren't innocent though, but they did try to share the blame.

Then there's Jesus' parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, where the Pharisee thanks God that he's not like other sinners and tax collectors but he tithes, prays, etc while the tax collector wouldn't even lift his eyes to Heaven but prayed that God would have mercy on him. Jesus said that the tax collector was justified, rather than the Pharisee.

If I think of any others I'll post.

mtnbkr · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2005, 04:38:53 AM »

Quote

Then there's Jesus' parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, where the Pharisee thanks God that he's not like other sinners and tax collectors but he tithes, prays, etc while the tax collector wouldn't even lift his eyes to Heaven but prayed that God would have mercy on him. Jesus said that the tax collector was justified, rather than the Pharisee.

I recall that parable. The Preacher at my wife's family's church used that in a sermon. It had quite a profound effect on me.

Chris

El Tejon · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2005, 07:27:06 AM »

So, the tax collector was blamed for the sins of the priest???

Was Eve really innocent?

I'm looking for an instant where the person blamed was totally innocent and was merely blamed for standing there.

Say, someone (Person A) commits an attempted murder and robbery unbeknowst to Person B who was with the robber. Call it "guilt by proximity."

Anything like this in The Bible where Person A, the perp, blames Person B, who was just standing there. Person A realizes he is in big, big trouble and is going to the Indiana, er, Judea Department of Correction for a long, long time unless he deflects his guilty, even partly, onto someone else.

The Rabbi · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2005, 09:03:36 AM »

Hmm. There was the incident where Avimelech took Sora as his wife after Avrohom told him she was his sister. Then Avimelech blamed Avrohom for the bad things tha thappened. Thats closer anyway.

El Tejon · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2005, 11:18:14 AM »

The Rabbi, have a citation by chance? TIA.

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2005, 12:17:38 PM »

I think our good Rabbi is referring to the account in Genesis 20.
You can check that, El T, but Rabbi, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

blueletterbible.org is a good place to find it online.

grampster · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2005, 02:38:19 PM »

Jesus was arrested, tried, convicted, tortured and hung on a cross and died. He was innocent.

Oops, never mind. I just went back and read El T's original post. I'm off base, sorry.

Guest · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2005, 02:45:15 PM »

Joseph was accused of raping his master's wife. It's not quite the same, as she accused him for revenge.

Guest · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2005, 02:49:38 PM »

Tamar! She was accused of harlotly by her father in law.

grampster · « **Reply #11 on:** December 15, 2005, 04:49:56 PM »

Well Jacob stole his brother Esau's blessing (birthright) by pretending to be Esau. So one might say that Jacob deflected the blame for tricking his father onto his brother who lost his heritage as a result by way of that trickery.
Once the blessing is given, it can not be recalled, so Esau was cheated and Isaac was a victim of fraud.

Bemidjiblade · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2005, 05:29:55 PM »

This one's pretty basic. Back when yisrael was one kingdom, the king took the place of the judges who had ruled before them.

A case was brought before Solomon, David's son.

Quote

1 Kings 3:16-28 (ESV) Then two prostitutes came to the king and stood before him. [17] The one woman said, "Oh, my lord, this woman and I live in the same house, and I gave birth to a child while she was in the house. [18] Then on the third day after I gave birth, this woman also gave birth. And we were alone. There was no one else with us in the house; only we two were in the house. [19] And this woman's son died in the night, because she lay on him. [20] And she arose at midnight and took my son from beside me, while your servant slept, and laid him at her breast, and laid her dead son at my breast. [21] When I rose in the morning to nurse my child, behold, he was dead. But when I looked at him closely in the morning, behold, he was not the child that I had borne." [22] But the other woman said, "No, the living child is mine, and the dead child is yours." The first said, "No, the dead child is yours, and the living child is mine." Thus they spoke before the king.
[23] Then the king said, "The one says, 'This is my son that is alive, and your son is dead'; and the other says, 'No; but your son is dead, and my son is the living one.' " [24] And the king said, "Bring me a sword." So a sword was brought before the king. [25] And the king said, "Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one and half to the other." [26] Then the woman whose son was alive said to the king, because her heart yearned for her son, "Oh, my lord, give her the living child, and by no means put him to death." But the other said, "He shall be neither mine nor yours; divide him." [27] Then the king answered and said, "Give the living child to the first woman, and by no means put him to death; she is his mother." [28] And all Israel heard of the judgment that the king had rendered, and they stood in awe of the king, because they perceived that the wisdom of God was in him to do justice.

Guess it doesn't get much worse of a sin, or much worse of a blame game than that eh?

Strings · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2005, 06:33:06 PM »

Wow... almost like a soap opera. Then again, that makes sense: what better way of teaching morals than to show those who break/ignore them...

Reminds me of a sunday scholl class when I was much younger. The teacher told us the "Children's version" of the story of Adam and Eve. The she asked us what we learned from it. Me, being the literal minded lil' heathen, responded "never accept an apple from a naked lady!". And I never have... Wink

Sorry for the hyjack...

client32 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2005, 08:56:17 AM »

The two stories I could think of was Solomon and the Baby and Joseph.

Look at Joseph.

El Tejon · « **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2005, 02:33:22 AM »

client, O.K., I will but do you have the book, chapter, verse? TIA.

Matthew Carberry · « **Reply #16 on:** December 17, 2005, 01:26:54 PM »

I was thinking Daniel, but watching VeggieTales for substantiation shows that also was a series of set ups by jealous rivals for Nebuchannezer and Darius's respective ears.

The Rabbi · « **Reply #17 on:** December 17, 2005, 02:45:22 PM »

Quote from: El Tejon

Is there any reference in The Bible to an incident where a person did a great crime but then later attempted to deflect blame by claiming that an another innocent person was involved as well???

TIA.

In thinking back, Barbara is right to raise Yoseph and Potifar's wife. She tried to seduce him and when he refused she screamed he tried to rape her (the first time this little tactic was recorded but unfortunately not the last it was used). He was thrown in the clink as a result.

El Tejon · « **Reply #18 on:** December 18, 2005, 03:35:15 AM »

Rabbi, do you have a citation?

El Tejon · « **Reply #19 on:** December 18, 2005, 05:16:29 AM »

A search under Tamar or that other name turns up nothing. Can someone give me at least the book where this Joseph incident is located?

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle · « **Reply #20 on:** December 18, 2005, 05:25:21 AM »

Genesis 39, El T.

El Tejon · « **Reply #21 on:** December 18, 2005, 06:05:01 AM »

FF, great! Thanks a lot! Genesis 39:6-20.

Now if I could just turn the pages to look it up without all the burning and hurting. Cheesy

Guest · « **Reply #22 on:** December 18, 2005, 06:53:06 AM »

The story about Tamar is Gen. 38.

Matthew Carberry · « **Reply #23 on:** December 18, 2005, 10:09:57 AM »

Let's see.

The Ark has the power to melt Nazi thugs.

The New Testament has the power to compel you.

The Old Testament.....?

I think if you are getting painful burning from handling the books of Israel you might just have an ink allergy. Wink

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Author Topic: Bible Scholars Needed (Read 2733 times)

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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Strings

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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