another stupid lawsuit

[charby]

Suit filed over deadly snowmobile accident
By ASSOCIATED PRESS



December 15, 2005



Sioux City  The parents of two girls who were killed when their snowmobiles were hit by a pickup truck have filed a lawsuit against the pickups driver and his father.

Darwin and Jacklyn Phillips filed the lawsuit in Woodbury County District Court on Monday  the two-year anniversary of the accident that killed their daughters, Andrea, 13, and Kallie, 10. Two other girls who were riding on the snowmobiles, Lauren Herbold, 11, and Kylie Koch, 10, also were killed.

In the lawsuit, the Phillips claim that Daniel Bouc, then 16, was negligent when the pickup truck he was driving struck the snowmobiles on a county gravel road north of Pierson on Dec. 12, 2003. They claim he was driving too fast, failed to keep a proper look out and failed to maintain control of the pickup.

The Phillips also name Boucs father, Fred Bouc, in the lawsuit, claiming he is responsible as the owner of the pickup.

An investigation showed that Andrea and Kallie Phillips were driving their snowmobiles in a ditch along a gravel road late in the afternoon when they crossed the road into the path of Boucs pickup.

Bouc slammed on his brakes and swerved, but was unable to avoid a collision, investigators with the Iowa State Patrol said.

Bouc was traveling about 30 mph at the time, investigators said.

The Phillips are seeking damages for the present worth and value of their daughters estates that would have accumulated between the time of their death and the end of their natural lives, the lawsuit said.

They also are seeking reimbursement for funeral and burial expenses and damages for loss of consortium with their daughters.

No dollar amount was placed on the damages.

A telephone call placed to the Boucs home by The Associated Press Thursday morning went unanswered.

[charby]

All I got to say is who lets children that young go out riding a snowmobile in a ditch.

[SADShooter]

Any money on how quickly the Philips' would pony up if roles were reversed and their daughter(s) had been driving the truck? This is a regrettable accident, but the story doesn't show me fault to justify a lawsuit.

[garyk/nm]

Hmmm...dad's name is Darwin.
There's something here, just can't put my finger on it.

[grampster]

So, the girls were stoppped or traveling in a ditch alongside the road.  They suddenly swerve into the road in front of the pickup.  If this is so, If I were the judge, I would, in a kindly way dismiss the lawsuit.  If the boy in the truck is traveling in a lawful manner, he has the right of way.  No negligence on his part.  Now in Michigan a snowmobile may travel lawfully on the shoulder of the road.  However, the burden is on them to enter the traveled portion of the roadway safely.

I would cite the operator of the snowmobile for either "Changing course to interfere" or "Failed to y.r.o.w. to a vehicle traveling in a lawful manner".

[charby]

grampster

Same in Iowa for snowmobiles also you can use a snowmobile on unplowed streets. I almost hit at least 2-3 snowmobiles each winter as they cut in front of me on highways and in town. Almost like they lose their brains when they sit on the sled. I have nothing against snowmobiles, I would love to own one if we got enough snow to enjoy it.

Charby

[jefnvk]

Now in Michigan a snowmobile may travel lawfully on the shoulder of the road.  However, the burden is on them to enter the traveled portion of the roadway safely.

Depends on the county, but yeah.

And I'd have to check, but in MI I believe the parents would be in trouble for not having direct control of children that young on snowmobiles.

EDIT: OK, kids under 12 cannot cross roads under any circumstance.  Plus, they cannot drive unless under immediate supervision, or on their own land.  So they would be at least in trouble for one of the snowmobiles, at least in MI.  If the 13 year old were driving the other, it would only be OK if she had a Snowmobile safety class.

The Phillips are seeking damages for the present worth and value of their daughters estates that would have accumulated between the time of their death and the end of their natural lives, the lawsuit said.

So, if the defense can show that the kids would have grown up to be crack addicts, can they get the family to have to pay for the damages they would have caused?

This argument seems OK for someone that had an established career with people depending on them.  It is a bit far-fetched for a barely-teen kid.  The kid may grow up to be a doctor, or may grow up and live on welfare.  Who is to determine what they would have made through their life.

[grampster]

In most lawsuits, damages are low for kids because of the aforementioned.  They are also low for old people as life span is over.

Charby,
I'd like another one too.  Had two of them in the early 80's.  But for $$ you have to spend for one today, and the lack of snow in West Michigan, not worth it.  Though on some quiet snowy nights I look our over the frozen lake and see headlights and hear the whine of sleds, I admit to envy.

Jfnvk is correct.  In Michgan the counties determine if a sled can operate on the r.o.w.

[jefnvk]

I'll be glad when mine makes its way up here

Big '78 Scopion 440, didn't cost me a cent.  My favorite price, expecially when I agree with gramps on the cost-benefit ratio for one in the Lower Peninsula.  Don't think I'll even need my car, I can get anywhere in town on that.

[grampster]

Jefnvk,

Seems to me one of my old sleds was a 76 or 78 Scorpion 440.  Is it blue or a really puky green color?  If its the puky green one, the carbs were always falling off.  They were held onto the engine by some kind of rubber sleeve. If so, check it out and see if you can remodel that situation.  My kids were teens back then and they blew both of 'em up by not mixing the oil with the gas.  Sigh....

[Guest]

As an aside, I'm getting just a little tired of shoveling that lack of snow already and its only December.

[jefnvk]

I have a red one.  Actually got two that day, the other was a blue with a blown motor.  Gave it to a buddy that needed a body for a motor.

And yeah, I don't like mixing the oil.  Got spoiled by the 73 Yamaha 292 that this sled replaced, it had the oil injection

[grampster]

Sigh.....Barbara, look where you live.  It's no wonder you have snow.
Up here in Purgatory, the weather is.....oh crap it's snowing again right now.
Where's my sled?

[jefnvk]

You two, quit your whining.  It hasn't stopped snowing up here since I got back from Thanksgiving break three weeks ago.

At least I dont need to shovel

[Strings]

I'm with Barbara on this. Y'all can HAVE the snow we've gotten...

 BTW: when shovelling wet slushy snow, motorcycle boots are NOT a good idea...

[charby]

15"+ so far in Iowa, normally the ground is bare.

Charby

[Werewolf]

Hmmm...dad's name is Darwin.
There's something here, just can't put my finger on it.

Darwin ALWAYS wins...

[Guest]

Wether the kids were operating their vehicles legally has no relevance whatsoever to the responsibility of the driver of the truck. Its illegal for an unatended child to cross the road at all, but that doesnt mean that one can run over them.

What it comes down to is wether or not the driver was operating his vehicle responsibly for the conditions, and the article doesnt provide anywhere near enough information to determine that.

Its quite possible that the kids swerved in front of his truck and he had no chance to stop. Its also possible that he was going way too fast for conditions. For the record, if he was driving on packed snow with unstudded or unchained street tires, 30 MPH is too fast.

This is the only real information that the article provides:

An investigation showed that Andrea and Kallie Phillips were driving their snowmobiles in a ditch along a gravel road late in the afternoon when they crossed the road into the path of Boucs pickup.

Now, that could be read to mean that they rode right in front of the the truck, and the driver could not avoid a collision. On the other hand, it could also mean that they were crossing the road 100 yards in front of the truck and he had ample time to stop, but didnt. The details are scetchy enough that one cannot come to a conclusion that the lawsuit is frivilous or not based soley on the information provided.

[Guest]

For the record, if he was driving on packed snow with unstudded or unchained street tires, 30 MPH is too fast.

Apparently, it was YOU I got behind this morning. In Michigan, we're known for our uncleared roads. If no one drove over 30 on snow covered roads, we'd never get anywhere. Hell, we don't quite speeding until we have at least half a foot.

[jefnvk]

Barb beat me to it.

After driving 450 miles today, at least half of which was packed snow, I can guarantee you that 30 is not too fast.  For half the year, the roads are nothing but packed snow, unless it has a US- or M- in front of the name.  Even then, there is a good chance it will take days to clear it.  And when major towns are seperated by three-digit mileage distances, 30 is definitely not too fast.

And packed snow is not much different than driving on dirt, once you get used to it.

I can also guarantee you that studded tires will get you in trouble on the road.

[Guest]

For the record, if he was driving on packed snow with unstudded or unchained street tires, 30 MPH is too fast.

Apparently, it was YOU I got behind this morning. In Michigan, we're known for our uncleared roads. If no one drove over 30 on snow covered roads, we'd never get anywhere. Hell, we don't quite speeding until we have at least half a foot.

And i bet you arent running on bare street tires either.

I like that your justification for driving at that speed has nothing whatsoever to do with safety but with getting to your destination.

I say: Its too dangerous

You counter with: Im in a hurry.

Does that make sense to you? Does your desire to get where your going suddenly make your actions responsible?

[jefnvk]

For the record, if he was driving on packed snow with unstudded or unchained street tires, 30 MPH is too fast.

Apparently, it was YOU I got behind this morning. In Michigan, we're known for our uncleared roads. If no one drove over 30 on snow covered roads, we'd never get anywhere. Hell, we don't quite speeding until we have at least half a foot.

And i bet you arent running on bare street tires either.

Can't speak for Barb, but I did it all the time in my Cavalier with the stock Goodyears.  Actually ran better in the snow (once you got it moving) than the Blazer I now have, with Goodyear Wranglers.

Its not always the hardware, it takes a lot of software too.  Knowing how to drive in the snow, even with shot road tires, is going to probably get you farther than someone who has never seen snow, and giving them a big 4x4 with offroad tires.

I like that your justification for driving at that speed has nothing whatsoever to do with safety but with getting to your destination.

But, those that do it every day can do it, and be safe at speeds higher than 30.  I'm saying its ridiculious to just throw out a number like 30, and say anyone driving faster than that is dangerous.

A foot of snow hits Texas, yeah, 30 may be dangerous.  That is not in their realm of normal driving.  A foot of snow hits northern MI, or Montana, or Alaska, or any of the other northern states, it is business as usual.

The point is, from December to May you will be driving on snow packed roads around here.  It is part of life.  You get used to it.  You go as fast as you can, safely, which for most is not 30.  The people I was following today, the slow ones were taking it easy and doing 50-55.  Once you hit the interstate, I was the slow car at 70.

[Guest]

Its not always the hardware, it takes a lot of software too.  Knowing how to drive in the snow, even with shot road tires, is going to probably get you farther than someone who has never seen snow, and giving them a big 4x4 with offroad tires.

I agree agree. Perhaps my statement should have more correctly read that 30MPH *can* be too fast depending on conditions.

The driver in this case was 16 years old, how much software do you think he was bringing to the game? Maybe its fine for someone with a lifetime of snow driving, but we are talking about a person who was quite possibly making his first effort at driving in the snow.

[Guest]

Just regular tires. I drive 1,000 miles a week, every week, in all kinds of weather. I'm also not an especially fast driver but I don't go 30 unless the roads are icy or very wet and slushy. Packed snow just smooths out the potholes.

[Guest]

For what its worth, I drive a minivan. I find that once the snow gets more than 8" or 9" deep, it has a hard time on unplowed roads, but over all, I can't complain.