Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Jocassee on August 07, 2009, 08:44:13 AM
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A town hall meeting to discuss President Obama's health care reform descended into shouting and violence in a Tampa, Fla., suburb Thursday as angry opponents clashed with event organizers.
Close to 1,500 people came to Ybor City to attend the town hall-style meeting on health care and insurance reform featuring Democratic State Rep. Bette Reed and U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor before the event exploded into a near riot.
According to local media reports, the larger-than-expected crowd gathered outside the Hillsborough County Children's Board building where several hundred people, mostly in opposition to government health care, began to loudly chant and scuffle with organizers posted at doorways after the auditorium filled to capacity.
A freelance videographer was roughed up in an altercation, which damaged his camera equipment and glasses, and at least one man was treated for minor injuries after a scuffle left his shirt partially torn from his body.
"That's the most violent anyone has been towards me," Mark Bishop told WTSP-TV. "It was surprising to say the least."
Video shot outside the auditorium showed several people holding signs and posters while banging on doors and windows, while others argued face-to-face and were seen screaming at one another in the parking lot as police looked on.
Inside, democratic lawmakers had a difficult time delivering their opening remarks as they were met with shouts of "You work for us!'' "Tyranny! tyranny! tyranny!'' and "Read the bill!" the Tampa Tribune reported.
As tensions rose further, Rep. Castor was escorted out of the town hall by police after Reed encouraged her to leave.
"They're hiding from their constituents. She works for us and needs to listen,'' Karen Jaroch, a homemaker and organizer for the 9-12 Project told the Tribune.
"We said all along our role was to come and give an update on the bill in Congress. That's what Betty Reed asked us to do ... and that's what we did," Castor spokeswoman Ellen Gedalius was quoted as saying.
Opponents said liberal organizers had attempted to allow early admission to those who were seen as favorable to health care plans making their way through Congress, but Reed denied the accusations, saying those brought in were organizers helping to set up the town hall.
"I represent a number of people who ask questions about what's going on with health care, so I thought it would be good to put on a meeting and have the congresswoman come in and give an update," Reed told the Tribune. "When you get to the point of possible violence, you've gone over the edge."
Top White House officials counseled Democratic senators Thursday on coping with disruptions at public events on health care this summer, officials said, and promised the party and allies would respond with twice the force if any individual lawmaker is criticized in television advertising.
In the week since the House began its break, several town hall-style meetings have been disrupted by noisy demonstrators. These episodes have drawn widespread media attention, and Republicans have seized on them as well as polls showing a decline in support for President Obama and his agenda as evidence that public support is lacking for his signature legislation.
About 20 protesters gathered in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., Thursday to let Democratic Rep. Scott Murphy know they oppose the health care plans in Washington. They carried signs saying: "Obamacare Seniors beware! Rationing is here," and "If socialized medicine is best ... why didn't Ted Kennedy go to Canada?" Motorists honked as they drove by.
So far, three House committees have approved health care legislation, and a measure is expected on the floor this fall. One committee has acted, and a bipartisan group of senators on the Finance Committee has been at work for weeks trying to draft a compromise plan.
Graves Sez: I would really like to know who is starting these physical altercations. Of course no matter who does the libs will blame it on the conservatives, but we at least can try to be fairminded.
Also as to my question. When's the last time we saw this kind of outrage? This is something new for me at least. Did we see things ratcheted up this level during Hillarycare? I was only a widdle baby at the time so I don't recal...
Also, will it last? Can we ride this wave until November next year? Furthermore, is the beginning of the end of a one-term presidency? It become obvious to me that Obama will continue to experience setbacks due to the galvanized, "racist" Republicans who are deriving backbone from their livid constituents (who deserve all the credit). Can we trasnlate that into victory in 2012, or will Obama be able to salvage his administration with unparalled charisma?
Questions, questions.
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Not new at all. Happens sometimes with all sorts of protests. Sadly not unique to any faction.
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I'm only surprised it took this long to develop. I suspect we will see more of this in the next few weeks and it will all be blamed on the "evil conservatives". I also expect to see racist/white supremecists showing up at any event where some democratic lawmaker may be confronted with unhappy constituents waving nazi flags and getting plenty of air time.
Also any "conservative" interviewed on camera will be a illiterate, slack-jawed, mouth breathing, toothless, yokel wearing an NRA cap, even if the "news" crew has to bring one with them.
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There's been a lot of protests that turned violent, including many anti-war protests during the Bush administration.
I remember a Million Mom March in Chicago in 2000 that got a bit violent. The "peace" crowd was trying to attack us, and had to be restrained by the police.
I'm betting on a couple of things: the people who help set up things and thus get good seats are Democrat party workers; and the people who incite the violence are also Democrat party workers.
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the people who incite the violence are also Democrat party workers.
What makes you say that? Genuinely curious.
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What may be new, at least in America, is that many more people now understand that it is orchestrated political theater and that we are not to trust previously "unbiased" commentary on such events. People have heard about Chicago politics, goons, ACORN, and brownshirts, and they will continue to hear about them from talk radio and read about them on the Internet. There will be no Walter Cronkite laying down the law about What's Going On any more.
That the nation is deeply polarized is not news to anyone. That we are playing for keeps here and that the issues in play are profound and dispositive of America's future shouldn't be either. The people now in power plan to hold that power, increase it, and maximize their control; with that as the agenda there is no way that the protests are going to abate. It will be a surprise if they don't grow and become more rambunctious, especially if the means of silencing and quashing them are less than subtle.
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It will be a surprise if they don't grow and become more rambunctious, especially if the means of silencing and quashing them are less than subtle.
May it be so.
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The freeper protest at Observatory Circle post BUSH/GORE was counter protested on the second day
by Teacher Union organized people. Some were quite nasty and seemed like professional Thugs.
They attempted agent provocateuring, but we knew our people and sent them back to their side of Reno road.
The were very organized, bussed in, and had offset printed signage mounted on wooden pickets.
The Brady Org also sent people to offset our METRO gun rights protests.
They would engage our more effective people and attempt to tamp out the fire by wasting our time.
We luckily had observant police officers who would maintain separation.
You are not there to debate privately with the opposition.
It is political street theater, and you need stage managers, sound bites, spokesmen and visual eye candy.
You need to know your speaking points and not let a sideshow freak get half an hour with the news reporter.
When interviewed you need to be on message and once you have given the message, you repeat it.
Do not get conversational with reporters, as they will hang you out to dry.
Only give them what you want broadcast. They will edit you and twist your intent.
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You are not there to debate privately with the opposition.
It is political street theater, and you need stage managers, sound bites, spokesmen and visual eye candy.
You need to know your speaking points and not let a sideshow freak get half an hour with the news reporter.
When interviewed you need to be on message and once you have given the message, you repeat it.
Do not get conversational with reporters, as they will hang you out to dry.
Only give them what you want broadcast. They will edit you and twist your intent.
Harold, you sound like a veteran. Is there some kind of manual to learn all this stuff for the uninitiated or can it only be learned through blood, toil, tears, and sweat?
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I'm only surprised it took this long to develop. I suspect we will see more of this in the next few weeks and it will all be blamed on the "evil conservatives". I also expect to see racist/white supremecists showing up at any event where some democratic lawmaker may be confronted with unhappy constituents waving nazi flags and getting plenty of air time.
Also any "conservative" interviewed on camera will be a illiterate, slack-jawed, mouth breathing, toothless, yokel wearing an NRA cap, even if the "news" crew has to bring one with them.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the gov't has Homeland Security classify the "evil conservatives" as potential terrorists.......oh, wait. THEY DID!.... :mad:
...and it's only going to get worse.... =(
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All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.
Happened quite fiercely here in AZ with regard to illegal aliens. Peaked about 3 years ago. We had opposition physically attacking picketers at rallies, or pick-pocketing in an attempt to start an altercation.
Harold's completely right. You have a set agenda and a fixed number of memorized talking points. Never improvise.
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What makes you say that? Genuinely curious.
You don't think today's political workers learned anything from the Reichstag Fire?
On a congressional campaign I worked for, one of the volunteers was discovered to be a staffer for the incumbent opponent. He did all sorts of things that discredited our candidate.
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You don't think today's political workers learned anything from the Reichstag Fire?
On a congressional campaign I worked for, one of the volunteers was discovered to be a staffer for the incumbent opponent. He did all sorts of things that discredited our candidate.
Understood. My question is, why do you think the left has a monopoly on disruptive tactics? We all know they do those things. But they accuse us of doing the same thing. Are we as clean as we think we are?
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After a bit, we got really paranoid about any new members
At some point you start worrying that "the goofy guy" is working off a stupid crime arrest by reporting on your org to handlers.
We learned these tactics by trial & error and got REALLY lucky with the press coverage.
Today everyone can have a video recorder and you need to document your event.
Heck, you can bypass the local news and broadcast right onto YouTUBE.
The political Handlers will have the police stop you from recording events.
You need a "third party" Video team, that appears to be a TV News crew or Newspaper reporters.
The police will let the press do their work.
For a Brady event, I had Rich L. "hire me" as a "reporter" for SWAT magazine...
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IN Tampa it was SEIU that started teh ruckus.
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IN Tampa it was SEIU that started teh ruckus.
SEIU?
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SEIU was also there at Observatory Circle
http://www.seiu.org/splash/
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SEIU?
Service Employees International Union. The thugs for Obamacare.
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Are we as clean as we think we are?
The last story I remember hearing about Republicans or conservatives using those kind of underhanded tactics was Watergate. Of course the Republicans engage in more political subterfuges as well, such as the torpedoing of Pat Buchanan in 2000 over his comments in his book about the US staying neutral in WWII.
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Demand Justice! Denounce Violence! Saturday at SEIU Office
by admin on August 7, 2009
in ACTION
DATE: Saturday, August 8, 2009 (tomorrow)
TIME: Noon
LOCATION: SEIU Headquarters, 5585 Pershing Ave., Suite 130, St. Louis, MO 63112
The St. Louis Tea Party will hold a press conference and peaceable protest at SEIU Headquarters
5585 Pershing Ave., Suite 130, St. Louis, MO 63112 at Noon Saturday, August 8, 2009.
The protest is to demand justice for Kenneth Gladney, an African-American conservative who was brutally beaten by 4 individuals, at least 2 of whom were identified as SEIU representatives. The beatings included racial slurs and required hospitalization of Mr. Gladney.
As videos show, the attack was unprovoked and no one retaliated against the union thugs.
This attack followed hours of taunts and verbal assaults by SEIU and ACORN members upon citizens gathered to express their views under the First Amendment. We believe this brutal beating is part of an organized plan to suppress dissent to the Administration’s planned seizure of the medical industry in the United States.
Anyone who believes in non-violent protest, in the rule of law, in the right of black men and women to express conservative political views, in the right to peaceably assemble, to speak freely, and to petition Congress for a redress of grievances is invited to attend.
The Tea Party specifically requests the NAACP and the ACLU to come out in support of Kenneth Gladney’s rights which were trampled by these hooligans. We call on Representative Russ Carnahan to denounce the beating. We call on President Obama to denounce the beatings. We call on St. Louis County to prosecute the assailants to fullest extent of the law.
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I've half a mind to drive out there to watch the fun.
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Demand Justice! Denounce Violence! Saturday at SEIU Office
by admin on August 7, 2009
in ACTION
DATE: Saturday, August 8, 2009 (tomorrow)
TIME: Noon
LOCATION: SEIU Headquarters, 5585 Pershing Ave., Suite 130, St. Louis, MO 63112
The St. Louis Tea Party will hold a press conference and peaceable protest at SEIU Headquarters
5585 Pershing Ave., Suite 130, St. Louis, MO 63112 at Noon Saturday, August 8, 2009.
The protest is to demand justice for Kenneth Gladney, an African-American conservative who was brutally beaten by 4 individuals, at least 2 of whom were identified as SEIU representatives. The beatings included racial slurs and required hospitalization of Mr. Gladney.
As videos show, the attack was unprovoked and no one retaliated against the union thugs.
This attack followed hours of taunts and verbal assaults by SEIU and ACORN members upon citizens gathered to express their views under the First Amendment. We believe this brutal beating is part of an organized plan to suppress dissent to the Administration’s planned seizure of the medical industry in the United States.
Anyone who believes in non-violent protest, in the rule of law, in the right of black men and women to express conservative political views, in the right to peaceably assemble, to speak freely, and to petition Congress for a redress of grievances is invited to attend.
The Tea Party specifically requests the NAACP and the ACLU to come out in support of Kenneth Gladney’s rights which were trampled by these hooligans. We call on Representative Russ Carnahan to denounce the beating. We call on President Obama to denounce the beatings. We call on St. Louis County to prosecute the assailants to fullest extent of the law.
Not going to happen for an "Uncle Tom"
If this situation was reversed, the MSM, Race Pimps, and Dems would be up in arms. Not so cause the guy was a conservative.
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What a sad day for America. A sitting US President is now using thugs to intimidate and assault people who oppose his political policies.
All my suspicions and fears about Obama were right on the mark.
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You are not there to debate privately with the opposition.
Amen.
Gravezore,
You can bet there are manuals out there for successful street demonstration. The left has this down to a science. You don't think they've written down their techniques?
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The protest is to demand justice for Kenneth Gladney, an African-American conservative who was brutally beaten by 4 individuals, at least 2 of whom were identified as SEIU representatives. The beatings included racial slurs and required hospitalization of Mr. Gladney.
Waiting for Obama comments on the incident and a discussion over beer.
Or maybe he and the SEIU are just gonna do the beer hall putsch thing...
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Harold, you sound like a veteran. Is there some kind of manual to learn all this stuff for the uninitiated or can it only be learned through blood, toil, tears, and sweat?
Try Rules for Radicals by Saul Allinsky - http://www.amazon.com/Rules-Radicals-Saul-Alinsky/dp/0679721134 (http://www.amazon.com/Rules-Radicals-Saul-Alinsky/dp/0679721134)
If you know the tactics of the opposition it is easier to avoid them.
Rule 1: Power is not only what you have, but what an opponent thinks you have. If your organization is small, hide your numbers in the dark and raise a din that will make everyone think you have many more people than you do.
Rule 2: Never go outside the experience of your people.
The result is confusion, fear, and retreat.
Rule 3: Whenever possible, go outside the experience of an opponent. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.
Rule 4: Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. “You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”
Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.
Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. “If your people aren’t having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.”
Rule 7: A tactic that drags on for too long becomes a drag. Commitment may become ritualistic as people turn to other issues.
Rule 8: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use all events of the period for your purpose. “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to your advantage.”
Rule 9: The threat is more terrifying than the thing itself. When Alinsky leaked word that large numbers of poor people were going to tie up the washrooms of O’Hare Airport, Chicago city authorities quickly agreed to act on a longstanding commitment to a ghetto organization. They imagined the mayhem as thousands of passengers poured off airplanes to discover every washroom occupied. Then they imagined the international embarrassment and the damage to the city’s reputation.
Rule 10: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. Avoid being trapped by an opponent or an interviewer who says, “Okay, what would you do?”
Rule 11: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it. Don’t try to attack abstract corporations or bureaucracies. Identify a responsible individual. Ignore attempts to shift or spread the blame.
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I really like rule #4 there.
"Rule 4: Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. “You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”
"
If there was only a way to get all the politicians to obey the laws they set forth for us.
You know...like the rest of us law abiding citizens who are forced to fear our government.
Last time I checked....they're *supposed* to abide by the same laws we do.
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BMacklem I'm totally reporting you to the Obama Truth Squad for that.
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So...where is The Great Uniter?
Does he have any idea what's brewing in these United States? Or is he too busy cutting secret deals with Calderon south of the border?
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Follow the money. Much of the money funding the protests and much of their organization is being done by big money republican donors and lobbyists.
http://www.courant.com/news/politics/sns-200908061454tmsbpresstt--m-a20090806aug06,0,3044288.story
http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/13/corporate-lobyists-raising-money-for-tea-parties/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/a-*derogatory term deleted*-timeline-koch_b_187312.html
Kenneth Gladney can be seen in the video of his alleged assault jumping to his feet. No one seems to notice that at the start of the video there is already a union member on the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWnxlFbYjVY&annotation_id=annotation_284819&feature=iv
http://www.thedailynigger.com/2009/08/09/meet-elston-k-mccowan-the-man-who-allegedly-assaulted-black-conservative-kenneth-gladney/
That last has some language.
These protests resemble the republican rioters that were flown into Florida in 2000.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2002/080502a.html
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fwikiality%2Fimages%2F8%2F8a%2FBrooksBrothersRiot2000v1.jpg&hash=1860a2c05144c9343d6311b9ce384bfa05b53c9d)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31074-2005Jan23.html
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Follow the money. Much of the money funding the protests and much of their organization is being done by big money republican donors and lobbyists.
Thank God.
Kenneth Gladney can be seen in the video of his alleged assault jumping to his feet. No one seems to notice that at the start of the video there is already a union member on the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWnxlFbYjVY&annotation_id=annotation_284819&feature=iv
http://www.thedailynigger.com/2009/08/09/meet-elston-k-mccowan-the-man-who-allegedly-assaulted-black-conservative-kenneth-gladney/
That last has some language.
OK, so he jumped to his feet. What does that mean?
One of his attackers was on the ground. So?
These protests resemble the republican rioters that were flown into Florida in 2000.
Riiiiight.
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These protests resemble the republican rioters that were flown into Florida in 2000.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2002/080502a.html
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fwikiality%2Fimages%2F8%2F8a%2FBrooksBrothersRiot2000v1.jpg&hash=1860a2c05144c9343d6311b9ce384bfa05b53c9d)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31074-2005Jan23.html
Yep, anytime Republicans actually stand up to the Democrats in their grabs for power, it's all staged and fake outrage.
I mean, people can't REALLY be mad about someone trying to steal a presidential election or REALLY be mad about the government trying to socialize healthcare. (We're not so stupid that we can't look at the myriad of examples of Democrats saying this is how they will bring about "single-payer healthcare).
Nope, it's all fake outrage. In fact, people WANT socialized medicine. The polls are wrong.
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These protests resemble the republican rioters that were flown into Florida in 2000.
Dude. Many people on this forum either attended, or helped organize the Tea Parties. Telling them that they're hired mercenaries worknig for Teh Rich is a bad idea.
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Liberals had better get out of the denial mode and figure out how to save their butts from a huge firestorm. Even a significant number of people who voted for Obama are mad as hell.
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Dude. Many people on this forum either attended, or helped organize the Tea Parties. Telling them that they're hired mercenaries worknig for Teh Rich is a bad idea.
I would classify it more of a Dumb Idea than a Bad Idea. The folks around here don't fall for that kind of tripe.
And let's be honest, we all work for the rich. Last I checked, the poor weren't in a position to sign anyone's paycheck.
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And let's be honest, we all work for the rich. Last I checked, the poor weren't in a position to sign anyone's paycheck.
Whom do you think McDonalds markets their product to?
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Whom do you think McDonalds markets their product to?
People who eat?
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Whom do you think McDonalds markets their product to?
Fat slobs, mostly. Leastaways that's what it looks like whenever I drive past a McDonalds.
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Dude. Many people on this forum either attended, or helped organize the Tea Parties. Telling them that they're hired mercenaries worknig for Teh Rich is a bad idea.
If there was any funding for the Tea Parties I attended, I'd like to know what they were using it for. Other than a sound system and some permits, there wasn't much to fund. There were a few professional signs at the first one. At the second one, I was embarrassed by all the home-made, misspelled signs.
I have no idea if there is any Big Zionist Conspiracy to oppose Obamacare, but I sure hope there is. These people are trying to rescue our health care system. I'd kinda like them to be well-funded.
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If there was any funding for the Tea Parties I attended, I'd like to know what they were using it for. Other than a sound system and some permits, there wasn't much to fund.
No no no. Rush Limbaugh paid for you and your friends to get together, and stand around, and hold signs and protest. Oh, wait....
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/etc/1310895349.html
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My point is, a lot of products out there are designed and marketed to be consumed by primarily poor or working-class people. Those people pay the paycheck of everybody at the company and its wealthy owners, too - which is why boycotts sometimes work.
The free market is not only a machine for big business. Every time you consume something, from a burger to a car, you are helping recoup investment and encouraging production and economic growth. Consumption essentially IS production.
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No no no. Rush Limbaugh paid for you and your friends to get together, and stand around, and hold signs and protest.
We didn't get any signs or t-shirts or anything. [kicks rocks]
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No no no. Rush Limbaugh paid for you and your friends to get together, and stand around, and hold signs and protest. Oh, wait....
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/etc/1310895349.html
What, man? I didn't get paid one cent to go to the TEA parties. Not one red cent. I spent my own money on gas to get my own butt there and took off time from other activities to do so.
Follow the money. Much of the money funding the protests and much of their organization is being done by big money republican donors and lobbyists.
It's all a Republikan Conspiracy, man!
(I'm not much of a fan of the Republican party, by the way, cause they SUCK! and aren't much better than the Dems)
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My point is, a lot of products out there are designed and marketed to be consumed by primarily poor or working-class people. Those people pay the paycheck of everybody at the company and its wealthy owners, too - which is why boycotts sometimes work.
The free market is not only a machine for big business. Every time you consume something, from a burger to a car, you are helping recoup investment and encouraging production and economic growth. Consumption essentially IS production.
Customers don't pay salaries, successful companies do. The average schlub buying a Big Mac has about as much chance of making payroll for a multimillion dollar corporation as a cocker spaniel has of writing a sonnet.
No no no. Rush Limbaugh paid for you and your friends to get together, and stand around, and hold signs and protest. Oh, wait....
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/etc/1310895349.html
Wait, I didn't get paid! I been robbed!
Where's Obama to make this right for me?
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No no no. Rush Limbaugh paid for you and your friends to get together, and stand around, and hold signs and protest. Oh, wait....
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/etc/1310895349.html
Did no-one but me find the "Honk to Stop Global Warming" sign side splittingly funny.....
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Customers don't pay salaries, successful companies do.
And companies don't become successful if they don't please customers.
As Sowell put it, you become rich by doing what other people want.
Hundreds of thousands of fat slobs keep McD going.
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Why does the left think they can bogart the grass roots?