Author Topic: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever  (Read 2568 times)

Iain

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Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« on: March 24, 2008, 08:01:30 AM »
Anyone read Donaldson's books? Read them when I was 12 or 13 and always meant to read them again. Found the first Chronicles (3 books - Lord Foul's Bane, The Illearth War, The Power that Preserves) in a charity shop on Thursday. About 200 pages in.

Of course I knew that I was taking on a lengthy reading task because I had read six of them, including the second chronicles, before. What I didn't know is that Donaldson had returned to the series in 2004 after a 21 year break intending to publish four more Covenant books, of which two have now been published.

I remember liking them, and have not been disappointed so far. Not my usual sort of reading these days, but a nice change.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 08:13:38 AM »
Admittedly I've never been diagnosed with leprosy and lost my wife, but Covenant is a jerk and a whiner.

Suck it up man, show some bearing.

I had to force myself to finish the first trilogy, and, being a masochist, went back for more.

In the end I just couldn't sympathize with Covenant's refusal to accept, first, his illness and loss and later his power and responsibility.  Even when he succeeds he mopes about it.

Too self-pitying.

But Donaldson has never been particularly into "likeable" characters.  His Gap series has some doozys.

The only books of his I really enjoyed were a collection of short stories and the 2 book "Mirror of Her Dreams".
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BryanP

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 09:10:02 AM »
The only books of his I really enjoyed were a collection of short stories and the 2 book "Mirror of Her Dreams".

Yep.  Those are the only books of his that I've kept.  They're quite good.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2008, 10:07:13 AM »
I really enjoyed the Chronicles a lot. Read them a couple times and know people who have read them 4 or 5 times and are trivia experts. The Gap series was just as entertaining.
I'll definitely be checking into the latest Chronicles.

Thomas Covenant is an anti-hero and the series is not for those who like fluffy bunnies and happy endings. grin
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Devonai

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2008, 11:14:03 AM »
I couldn't get past the rape scene in the first book, although everyone who has read them told me I wussed out.  I guess it gets better, since the series was recommended to me by my own mother!  That was thirteen years ago... maybe I'll try again.
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roo_ster

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2008, 11:37:49 AM »
I, too, read both the first and second groups of books. 

carebear nailed it.

It wasn't just stupid/evil acts and foregoing responsibility.  Plenty of characters have such characteristics and are still sympathetic.  It was the incessant self-pitying & whining.

The TC character needed to man up, suck it up, and move forward.





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Iain

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 01:03:52 PM »
I dunno, not sure that I could man up and face my responsibilities in a scenario in which it is pretty possible that none of this happening and that I'm imagining it all. If I recall that is the way that Donaldson intended the first book at least to be.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 04:23:56 PM »
I dunno, not sure that I could man up and face my responsibilities in a scenario in which it is pretty possible that none of this happening and that I'm imagining it all. If I recall that is the way that Donaldson intended the first book at least to be.

See, I long ago decided that if it appears that reality has made the impossible possible, I will just react accordingly.  It's the only rational choice if you think about it.  Denying your senses is useless, what's the possible upside?

If it appears that the dead have risen, until proven otherwise, shoot for the head.  Doing otherwise ends up with your brains eaten.

If bodies pile up drained of blood, stock up on crosses and stakes, maybe go buy a crossbow prior to the rush.  Again, the worst that can happen is that the purely mortal guy who tries to bite your neck gets shot AND impaled.

Absent a reason to suspect a drug reaction, it is never a negative to just accept what your senses plainly tell you, regardless of preconceived ideas of what is "possible'.

The worst that can happen is that you survive.  You can deal with the other consequences afterwards.

Almost every story or movie I've ever read or seen where regular people are suddenly faced by the impossible (including Covenant) begins with the conceit that those people have never read or seen a sci-fi, horror or fantasy movie.  So they say "Oh, I have no idea what's going on, and it's impossible.  Deny deny deny reality..." and they die.

Every nerd and geek in America would instead say "I kinda hoped this would happen some day, I've read this book, I know exactly what to do."

I got no sympathy for Thomas Covenant, Unbelievably Whiny.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 05:26:28 PM »
An unbeliever?  Where are the Jesuits?   police
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 06:39:19 PM »
I guess I should acknowledge that not every protagonist has to be "likeable" but if I'm going to want to follow their progress and development, I have to find some way to respect them within the internal consistency of the story.

I could never manage that with Covenant, especially in the second series.  Maybe I should give them a second read now that it's been a couple decades.


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Balog

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 08:33:07 PM »
I too read the 1st Chronicles as a youngster (12 or 13ish). They are a compelling read; I was drawn in and wanted to see how it ended. Setting aside the incredible amount of whinging the main character does, I still hated the damn thing. Why?

Donaldson is a talented writer. He paints a beautiful world, and then an equally graphic depiction of it's violation. It's not just that I don't really want to read about a hero (or anti-hero) who rapes a young girl; the whole thing is one long allegorical rape scene. The degredation of the beautiful and pure wasn't particularly entertaining to me. Just... depressing.
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Bogie

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 08:52:12 PM »
Huh?
 
Are these zombie books that I somehow missed?
 
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Bogie

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2008, 09:00:19 PM »
Oh. Looks like some sorta alternative dungeons and dragons stuff.
 
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2008, 09:42:40 PM »
Nope, not anything like "Dungeons and Dragons stuff".

Unless you just lump all fantasy in like that.
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roo_ster

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Re: Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2008, 03:40:34 AM »
To give him his due, Donaldson is a fair writer. 

Not in the ranks of the best, but firmly in the first SD to the right of the mean.

His "Mirror" books were also well done.

His books have nothing to do with D&D and have an entirely different tone.
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roo_ster

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