Author Topic: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown  (Read 2480 times)

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« on: October 31, 2006, 07:36:36 PM »
Quote
"We find it in the public interest to protect residents access to homes, education, jobs and businesses," he wrote in a 13-page opinion.
How about the right of the city council to regulate?


Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
Decision cites vague connection between illegal immigrants, crime
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15504113/


ALLENTOWN, Pa. - A federal judge on Tuesday blocked the city of Hazleton from enforcing a pair of ordinances targeting illegal immigrants, just hours before the measures were to go into effect.

The measures, approved by the City Council last month, would have imposed fines on landlords who rent to illegal immigrants and denied business permits to companies that give them jobs. They also would have required tenants to register with City Hall and pay for a rental permit.

U.S. District Judge James Munley ruled that landlords, tenants and businesses that cater to Hispanics faced "irreparable harm" from the laws and issued a temporary restraining order blocking their enforcement.

"We find it in the public interest to protect residents access to homes, education, jobs and businesses," he wrote in a 13-page opinion.

Hispanic groups and the ACLU sued Hazleton on Monday, contending the laws violate the Constitution because they trample on the federal government's exclusive power to regulate immigration.

Mayor Lou Barletta, who spearheaded the law, has argued that illegal immigrants have brought an increase in drugs, crime and gangs to the city. The city's lawyers on Tuesday cited a 10 percent increase in crime between 2004 and 2005 as a reason why the ordinances should be enforced.

Munley, however, wrote that the city "offers only vague generalizations about the crime allegedly caused by illegal immigrants, but has nothing concrete to back up these claims."

Hazleton's crackdown, which was announced in June, has spurred other towns to pass similar laws. Municipal officials view the Hazleton lawsuit and a similar one in Riverside, N.J., as test cases.

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2006, 07:58:36 PM »
Good for the judge!

The notional of a "rental permit" is downright creepy.  Since when do you have to ask permission from the government and pay a fee, simply for the "priviledge" of having a place to sleep at night?  What happens when the state decides to deny the right to a home to certain classes of people?

Fining employers and denying them business permits is also reprehensible.  For one thing, the very notion of "permitting" business is abhorent.  For another, it shouldn't be an employers job to verify a employees' citizenship.  How can an employer verify citizenship?  By checking for the requisite official papers, which are easily and frequently forged/falsified by illegals?  The employer should be responsible for two things only:  ensuring a safe workplace, and for making good on any compensation he's promised to his employees.  Law enforcement is the state's job, not business owners' jobs.  That's why we pay our taxes.

Illegals increase drugs, crime, and gangs, says them?  Even if true, when a given illegal commits crime the proper response is to bring him (and him alone) to trial for that crime.  The existence of crime doesn't give the government license to impliment these senseless new laws.  From the description, these onerous restrictions would be enforced against ALL residents, not just illegals, and not even just on those few illegals who perpetrate the crimes in question. 

I'm a pretty staunch conservative.  But one thing I really oppose about the conventional conservative viewpoint is this kneejerk, statist response to illegal immigration.  Conservatism is all about reducing government involvement in our lives, not implimenting sweeping new police state powers. 

Wanna stop illegal immigration?  Instead of hog-tying citizens with endless new bureaucracy, why don't they eliminate the handouts and free services that draw illegals here in the first place?

mnrivrat

  • New Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2006, 09:25:06 PM »
 
Quote
Even if true, when a given illegal commits crime the proper response is to bring him (and him alone) to trial for that crime. 


I agree , and by the fact that they are in this country illegaly they are therefore criminals so they should all be brought up on charges ! Right ?

Calling them undocumeted workers is like calling a burglar an uninvited house guest.   Calling them immagrants implies they came here legaly to become americans .

Their illegal trespassers !

I agree that all benifits must stop - including jobs . Removing the incentives is the only way to stop illegal entry.   I however commend the Hazelton mayor and council for at least trying something to make that happen.  While the ACLU argues that immigration is a federal responsibility, the actions taken in Hazelton were/are an attempt to deal with criminal trespass, and not immigration.   On that note I see nothing wrong with most of what they are attempting to do.  Most employers of illegals know damn good and well who they are employing and varification through SS records or by some means should not be that high a standard for them to meet .  If I have to go through a NICS check to excersise my 2nd amendment rights, then why not a check to varify citizenship status to get a job or other benifits provided to US citizens ?   Hazelton is trying to do a hell of a lot better job than our federal government on this issue.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2006, 03:19:43 AM »
The following, related article is of interest.

Perhaps the "attrition" approach toward illegal aliens would be effective.  There are examples of the approach working in th epast, but this is another data point to ponder.

BTW, the attrition approach involves:
1. Securing the border to severely attenuate illegal border-crossers.
2. Going after employers who hire illegals to reduce the draw.
3. Denying social services to illegals other than emergency services...and deporting those who use emergency services, also an effort to reduce the draw.
4. Deporting illegal aliens nabbed for any other sort of crime such as DUI, speeding, assault, etc., after they have done their time.
The goal is the eventual reduction of illegal aliens in the US by most illegals leaving on their own.

Note, that it does not involve Palmer Raid-type roundups.

As to the regs instituted by the city council, I think they and their constitutents are fit to determine what is appropriate.  Not every municipality and its inhabitants wants to re-create Mexico City.

Hispanics Flee Pa. Town Before Crackdown
Oct 31 2:04 PM US/Eastern
   
By MICHAEL RUBINKAM
Associated Press Writer

HAZLETON, Pa.
      
         

Elvis Soto's variety store used to make money. But few customers have been walking through his door lately, and his merchandise _ calling cards, cell phones, car stereos, clothing _ is collecting dust on the shelves.

With bills mounting, Soto might have to take another job to stay afloat financially, and may even close the store.

On Wednesday, a tough, first-of-its-kind law targeting illegal immigrants goes into effect in this small hillside city in northeastern Pennsylvania. But the evidence suggests many Hispanics _ illegal or otherwise _ have already left.

That, in turn, has hobbled the city's Hispanic business district, where some shops have closed and others are struggling to stay open.

"Before, it was a nice place," said Soto, 27, who came to the United States from the Dominican Republic a decade ago. "Now, we have a war against us. I am legal but I feel the pressure also."

The ordinance, approved by City Council in September, imposes fines on landlords who rent to illegal immigrants and denies business permits to companies that give them jobs. The law empowers the city to investigate written complaints about a person's immigration status, using a federal database.

Mayor Lou Barletta, chief proponent of the new law, contends illegal immigrants have brought drugs, crime and gangs, overwhelming police and municipal budgets. He announced the crackdown in June, a month after two illegal immigrants from the Dominican Republic were charged in a fatal shooting.

At Isabel's Gifts, owner Isabel Rubio said business is so bad that she and her husband have put their house up for sale, moved into an apartment above their store and started dipping into their savings.

"I am in a lot of stress right now," said Rubio, 50, a Colombian who moved to Hazleton 24 years ago. "Every day, we hope to have a good day."

Opponents sued on Monday to block the law and a companion measure, saying they trample on the federal government's exclusive power to regulate immigration.

"These ordinances are nothing more than an officially sanctioned witch hunt," said Cesar Perales, president of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, a group representing plaintiffs in the case. They include the Hazleton Hispanic Business Association, several illegal immigrants, landlords and a restaurateur.

The mayor said he would fight all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary, saying the ordinance is "as bulletproof as we can get it."

Hispanics began settling in large numbers in Hazleton several years ago, lured from New York, Philadelphia and other cities by cheap housing, low crime and the availability of work in nearby factories and farms. The city, situated 80 miles from Philadelphia, estimates its population has increased from 23,000 to 31,000 over the past six years, with Hispanics now representing 30 percent of the population.

No one knows how many of the new arrivals came to the United States illegally, but assimilating such a large number of people, many of whom speak little English, in such a short amount of time has been difficult.


Many white residents resent the newcomers, complaining about rising crime and overburdened schools. Tensions have flared over relatively minor annoyances such as loud music and double parking.

"You don't like the big-city stuff coming here," said insurance agent Vincent Santopoli, 49, a lifelong resident. "We're not used to it."

Barletta, who has risen from political obscurity to become a darling of anti-illegal immigration activists nationwide, said he sympathizes with struggling Hispanic business owners. But he said the fact their revenues are down is proof the city had a problem with illegal immigration.

"I've said from the beginning my goal was to make Hazleton one of the toughest cities in America for illegal aliens," he said. "Today, if I was an illegal alien, I certainly wouldn't pick Hazleton as my home."

Police Chief Bob Ferdinand said his officers appear to be responding to fewer calls. But on Oct. 20, a legal immigrant from the Dominican Republic was accused of shooting and killing two Hispanic men, one in the country illegally.

Todd Betterly, 37, who was awakened by the gunshots, said the killings are proof the crackdown is necessary.

"There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to find out who belongs here and who doesn't," he said. "If we could have stopped one murder by knowing where these people are, isn't it worth it?"

A second ordinance going into effect Wednesday requires tenants to register their name, address and phone number at City Hall and pay $10 for a rental permit. Landlords who fail to make sure their tenants are registered can be fined $1,, plus a penalty of $250 per tenant per day. The goal is to discourage illegal immigrants from even trying to rent in Hazleton.

A 32-year-old Mexican who slipped into the United States nine years ago to find work said he has no intention of registering.

"What is the mayor gaining by this law? I'm not a drug trafficker, I don't run around in gangs. I do my job and I go home to my family," said the married father of two, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of his immigration status.

Pennsylvania native Kim Lopez and her husband, Rudy, a Mexican immigrant, closed their grocery store Oct. 1 after business tailed off dramatically over the summer. They lost more than $10,000 _ their life savings.

"Everyone was running scared and left town," said Lopez, 39. "We had customers who came in who were legal citizens and they didn't want the harassment and hassle and told us they were leaving."
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,683
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2006, 03:57:56 AM »
It's not clear how local regulation of the housing industry directed at eliminating refuges for criminals falls within the jurisdiction of a Federal court.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Green Lantern

  • New Member
  • Posts: 66
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2006, 04:09:26 AM »
HmmmmMMMMmmmmm....

I was angry at first when I heard that the judge stopped the measures...

But..."rental permits?"  shocked  Uh, no thank you!

Still, measures like this are, IMO, the most effective ways of cracking down on illegal immigration.  ESPECIALLY punishing businesses that HIRE them!

Take away the "appeal" and the problem will go a long way to solving ITESELF.

ilbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,546
    • Bob's blog
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2006, 04:44:05 AM »
The notional of a "rental permit" is downright creepy.  Since when do you have to ask permission from the government and pay a fee, simply for the "priviledge" of having a place to sleep at night? 

many localities have requirements for people that rent hotel rooms out. are you opposed to those as well? Its not a permit system, but it is darn close.

My problem with the ruling is that basically it says it is OK to target everyone in a government crackdown, but you can't target those most likely to actually be engaged in criminal activity.
bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

mfree

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,637
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2006, 04:45:33 AM »
*twitch*

As lousy as it seems, it does seem that this is a jurisdictional issue.

What we need to do is kick the feds in the ass for not DOING THEIR JOBS.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2006, 04:47:04 AM »
Rental permits are a fact of life in many municipalities.  I am ambivalent, but I believe it is up to the voters in those municipalities to determine if they are best for their community.

They have them in my city, too.  The city & the voters want to know just who to go after for illegality that emanates from property occupation.  In the case of my city it goes beyond illegal alien bunkhouses* and into upkeep, safety, drug dealing, etc.

I guess some of our black-robed masters think rental permits are A-OK...unless you are trying to prevent PC-approved illegality.

* Residences modified to serve as bunkhouses for a large number of illegal aliens.  Our neighborhood has had a few.  Think 15-20 illegals in a 1500sqft house, with all the traffic (foot & vehicle) that implies.  Plus illegals taking care of personal hygiene in the front yard and leaving trash to blow about the neighborhood.  We in the (voluntary) housing assoc are pretty vigilant & pro-active in reporting them.  All it takes is a call to the police describing what goes on.  It seems that description fits patterns other than just illegal alien bunkhouses, such as drug houses.  The bunkhouse gets raided and almost inevitably, some drugs & stolen property are found.  shocked

I need to check on another house mentioned in hte last HA meeting.  When I get time, I'll take a gander and report on what I see.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2006, 10:05:32 AM »
Mike Irwin just thought he had power as president of his HOA.  The fool (cue maniacal laughter)!

Our HOA is essentially a political pressure group.  We hold a HOA meeting, invite the mayor & councilcritters and let them observe actual VOTERS with concerns.  If we'll get up to go to an HOA meeting, we'll get out to vote, damn skippy.

It is funny.  I spent the first 30 years of my life a vagabond due to my dad's & then my work.  I spend 4 years in one spot and I become a HOA/City-Council Meeting attending sort of solid citizen concerned with property values, neighborhood upkeep, and local crime rates.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2006, 11:29:57 AM »
The notional of a "rental permit" is downright creepy.  Since when do you have to ask permission from the government and pay a fee, simply for the "priviledge" of having a place to sleep at night? 

many localities have requirements for people that rent hotel rooms out. are you opposed to those as well? Its not a permit system, but it is darn close.

My problem with the ruling is that basically it says it is OK to target everyone in a government crackdown, but you can't target those most likely to actually be engaged in criminal activity.
Of course I have a problem with having to ask the government for permission to stay in a hotel room.  That's as absurd as asking the government for permission before living in an apartment. 

Am I really the only person here who has a problem with the government mandating residents get permits before allowing them to have a place to live?  It's bad enough that we have to get a permit before carrying a gun.  But to have to get a permit just to have a place to sleep at night?  What's next, permits that allow us all the "priviledge" of breathing the air?!

As for fining business owners, the contract between employer and employee is a private matter in which the government has no moral right to interject itself.  So long as the employee is performing up to the standards both employer and employee agreed upon, and so long as the employer is living up to his promised compensation, the government should stay the hell out.

It's always easier to blame the other guy, and to burden him with the responsible to fix the world's ills.  Since there are so many fewer employers than employees, it's only natural that society would vote them the blame and responsibility for fixing this mess.  Such is the world we live in.

This new policy, which was RIGHTFULLY struck down by the judge, is nothing more than a power grab.  They scare you all with fears of illegal immigrants run amok, then take away your right to run a business or rent an apartment to stay in.  Don't fall for it.

garyk/nm

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 498
  • shovelbum
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2006, 03:32:20 PM »
Headless, no one else cares what you think.
Every community should have the option of excluding illegals from their....community.
If imposing a "renters tax" is what it takes, then so be it. Illegals sure aren't buying property, but they, and their ilk, will be the first in line to vote for increases in property tax to pay for the services that they use, won't they? And if certain businesses go under because their customer base (illegals) is gone, oh well; too bad for them. There is no guarantee that any business succeed. If they pinned their life savings on making money off of illegals, boo-hoo; better luck next time. 
Who are you to say that a community can't impose restrictions on undesirables? Do you live there? If not, what you say has no meaning. Better get a check on your ego, pal.

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2006, 04:25:02 PM »
Who am I to say that a community can't pull this kind of crap?  I'm a citizen of a free country.  It is my duty and my right to ensure that this kind of government abuse of power isn't tolerated.  I absolutely refuse to submit to this kind of tyranny.  If that means I need an ego check, then so be it.

As for opinions (mine or yours), none of that really matters.  What matters is the constitutionality and legality of the law in question.  I know that no part of the Fed Constitution empowers the government to restrict access to a home.  I've never read the PA state constitution, but I highly doubt that it empowers PA to do it either.  Unless I'm wrong about that, the community in question is acting outside of its authority and needs to be stopped.  It ain't about opinions, it's about the law.  The judge did the right thing in striking down these illegal measures.

Nope, I don't live in Allentown, and I have no real authority over their laws and community.  But that doesn't detract from the veracity of what I've said, nor does it impugn my right to say it.  Say, do YOU live in Allentown??

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2006, 04:25:41 PM »
Oh, one other thing.  As for you not liking what I think:



garyk/nm

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 498
  • shovelbum
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2006, 04:32:09 PM »
Well, OK then. I stand corrected.
<pffffbllllt!>

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,519
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Judge blocks Pa. towns immigrant crackdown
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2006, 10:37:19 AM »
"Our HOA is essentially a political pressure group.  We hold a HOA meeting, invite the mayor & councilcritters and let them observe actual VOTERS with concerns.  If we'll get up to go to an HOA meeting, we'll get out to vote, damn skippy."

You don't think that my HOA wasn't?

Gerry Connolly, the Chairman of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors regularly came to my HOA's annual meetings, National Night Out Against Crime, etc., and was routinely peppered with hard questions from the residents.

Before he was head of the Supervisors he was our district rep. to the board and made many of our meetings. His successor, Linda Smyth, has also been to many of our meetings.

It's easy to schedule such a person when his main administrative aid was my predecessor as HOA president.

Of course, it also helps that I've never turned down a commission appointment from either him or Linda. A year ago I agreed to serve a 3-year term on the Fairfax County History Commission. What a year to do it, what with Jamestown 400 on the horizon.

Are you on a first-name, hey let's go grab some lunch between our meetings basis with your mayor? I am with Gerry and Linda both.

We also had the Chief of the Fairfax County Police, more than a few of our state delegates, and we almost had Mark Warner, former gov. of Virginia, one year, but that unfortunately fell through.

All of that's probably a thing of the past now, though, as the current HOA board doesn't really have it act together, and is quickly proving to be quite unup to the task at hand...
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.