Author Topic: McCains Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out  (Read 7442 times)

Desertdog

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McCains Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out
By CARL HULSE
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html?_r=2&ei=5090&en=45d24e7c7a991183&ex=1361941200&oref=slogin&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin


WASHINGTON  The question has nagged at the parents of Americans born outside the continental United States for generations: Dare their children aspire to grow up and become president? In the case of Senator John McCain of Arizona, the issue is becoming more than a matter of parental daydreaming.

Mr. McCains likely nomination as the Republican candidate for president and the happenstance of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 are reviving a musty debate that has surfaced periodically since the founders first set quill to parchment and declared that only a natural-born citizen can hold the nations highest office.

Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.

There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent, said Sarah H. Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. It is not a slam-dunk situation.

Mr. McCain was born on a military installation in the Canal Zone, where his mother and father, a Navy officer, were stationed. His campaign advisers say they are comfortable that Mr. McCain meets the requirement and note that the question was researched for his first presidential bid in 1999 and reviewed again this time around.

But given mounting interest, the campaign recently asked Theodore B. Olson, a former solicitor general now advising Mr. McCain, to prepare a detailed legal analysis. I dont have much doubt about it, said Mr. Olson, who added, though, that he still needed to finish his research.

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina and one of Mr. McCains closest allies, said it would be incomprehensible to him if the son of a military member born in a military station could not run for president.

He was posted there on orders from the United States government, Mr. Graham said of Mr. McCains father. If that becomes a problem, we need to tell every military family that your kid cant be president if they take an overseas assignment.

The phrase natural born was in early drafts of the Constitution. Scholars say notes of the Constitutional Convention give away little of the intent of the framers. Its origin may be traced to a letter from John Jay to George Washington, with Jay suggesting that to prevent foreigners from becoming commander in chief, the Constitution needed to declare expressly that only a natural-born citizen could be president.

Ms. Duggin and others who have explored the arcane subject in depth say legal argument and basic fairness may indeed be on the side of Mr. McCain, a longtime member of Congress from Arizona. But multiple experts and scholarly reviews say the issue has never been definitively resolved by either Congress or the Supreme Court.

Ms. Duggin favors a constitutional amendment to settle the matter. Others have called on Congress to guarantee that Americans born outside the national boundaries can legitimately see themselves as potential contenders for the Oval Office.

They ought to have the same rights, said Don Nickles, a former Republican senator from Oklahoma who in 2004 introduced legislation that would have established that children born abroad to American citizens could harbor presidential ambitions without a legal cloud over their hopes. There is some ambiguity because there has never been a court case on what natural-born citizen means.

Mr. McCains situation is different from those of the current governors of California and Michigan, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jennifer M. Granholm, who were born in other countries and were first citizens of those nations, rendering them naturalized Americans ineligible under current interpretations. The conflict that could conceivably ensnare Mr. McCain goes more to the interpretation of natural born when weighed against intent and decades of immigration law.

Mr. McCain is not the first person to find himself in these circumstances. The last Arizona Republican to be a presidential nominee, Barry Goldwater, faced the issue. He was born in the Arizona territory in 1909, three years before it became a state. But Goldwater did not win, and the view at the time was that since he was born in a continental territory that later became a state, he probably met the standard.

It also surfaced in the 1968 candidacy of George Romney, who was born in Mexico, but again was not tested. The former Connecticut politician Lowell P. Weicker Jr., born in Paris, sought a legal analysis when considering the presidency, an aide said, and was assured he was eligible. Franklin D. Roosevelt Jr. was once viewed as a potential successor to his father, but was seen by some as ineligible since he had been born on Campobello Island in Canada. The 21st president, Chester A. Arthur, whose birthplace is Vermont, was rumored to have actually been born in Canada, prompting some to question his eligibility.

Quickly recognizing confusion over the evolving nature of citizenship, the First Congress in 1790 passed a measure that did define children of citizens born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States to be natural born. But that law is still seen as potentially unconstitutional and was overtaken by subsequent legislation that omitted the natural-born phrase.

Mr. McCains citizenship was established by statutes covering the offspring of Americans abroad and laws specific to the Canal Zone as Congress realized that Americans would be living and working in the area for extended periods. But whether he qualifies as natural-born has been a topic of Internet buzz for months, with some declaring him ineligible while others assert that he meets all the basic constitutional qualifications  a natural-born citizen at least 35 years of age with 14 years of residence.

I dont think he has any problem whatsoever, said Mr. Nickles, a McCain supporter. But I wouldnt be a bit surprised if somebody is going to try to make an issue out of it. If it goes to court, I think he will win.

Lawyers who have examined the topic say there is not just confusion about the provision itself, but uncertainty about who would have the legal standing to challenge a candidate on such grounds, what form a challenge could take and whether it would have to wait until after the election or could be made at any time.

In a paper written 20 years ago for the Yale Law Journal on the natural-born enigma, Jill Pryor, now a lawyer in Atlanta, said that any legal challenge to a presidential candidate born outside national boundaries would be unpredictable and unsatisfactory.

If I were on the Supreme Court, I would decide for John McCain, Ms. Pryor said in a recent interview. But it is certainly not a frivolous issue.

El Tejon

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Shades of Goldwater.
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

RoadKingLarry

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Absolute load of crap! A US Military installation in a foreign country is considered US soil. There are tens of thousands of people that were born in US military hospitals over seas. Anyone that promotes the idea that McCain is ineligible because he was born in a US installation "offshore" is an idiot or deliberately trying to discredit not only McCain but all people with a military heritage.
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Sergeant Bob

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Absolute balderdash. Being born a "Zonie" is the same as being born on a military installation (as previously said) and entitles a person full, natural citizenship.
The NYT is only trying to start an urban legend to discredit McCain's candidacy (who really needs no help in that regard).
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Yes!  This is Ron Paul's big chance!
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There was a similar stew regarding Cheney in 2000 - could he be considered a Texan because of some house he has in the state, and thus ineligible to be VP (invalidating the ticket?)? Courts said "go to hell," and it wasn't a problem. I expect the same to be true here.

seeker_two

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He was born to two American citizens on an American military installation....he's as natural born as you can get.

As much as I wish he wasn't on the ticket (and hope he'll do the honorable thing and decline the nomination to save the party from a fatal split), this won't disqualify him.....
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cordex

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As much as I wish he wasn't on the ticket (and hope he'll do the honorable thing and decline the nomination to save the party from a fatal split), this won't disqualify him.....
Agreed.  I really, really, really, really don't like him as a candidate, but assuming the facts are as presented, he completely fits the legal requirements to be president including and especially the "natural born" bit.

Desertdog

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I have a grand-daughter that was born in a hospital in Germany when our son was stationed oversea and she was granted a German and American citizen ship.
My son said that at 18 she can choose which country she wants to be a citizen of.  I do not know if she can retain a duel citizenship for life, or at some point she must choose one.

Unisaw

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You mean the New York Times endorsed someone whom they are now hinting isn't even eligible?    grin

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Regolith

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You mean the New York Times endorsed someone whom they are now hinting isn't even eligible?    grin



More like trying everything in their power to sink him.  First that ludicrous and poorly written story about his relationship with that lobbyist, and now this. 

Quote
There was a similar stew regarding Cheney in 2000 - could he be considered a Texan because of some house he has in the state, and thus ineligible to be VP (invalidating the ticket?)?

You're going to have to run that by me again.  What does Cheney's state of residency have to do with his running for VP? 
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wmenorr67

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There is supposed to be some clause that states that the President and VP cannot have their offical home of record be from the same state.
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Regolith

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There is supposed to be some clause that states that the President and VP cannot have their offical home of record be from the same state.

I just read through the qualifications to become president/vice president section in the Constitution, and there is nothing that comes even close to that. There is a requirement in the 12th Amendment that electors[/] cannot cast a vote for a President and VP who both live in the same state as the elector, but there is nothing saying that a VP and a President can't be from the same state.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Somebody at the office today joked that Obama should be disqualified from running for Prez.  He's a cult, ya see, and we need to honor the strict separation of church and state.

That makes about as much sense as trying to disqualify McCain because of his citizenship.

K Frame

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What's really fun is that this only crops up now that McCain is the Republican frontrunner.

This is the actual phrase from the constitution: "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Take out "at the time of the adoption of this Constitution" because it's no longer applicable.

It's clear to me than any individual who, at the time of his birth, is a US Citizen, is eligible to be President. Doesn't matter if he's born it Upper Slobvakia, or Lower Jihadistan.

More crap about nothing.
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Jamisjockey

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Quote
or a Citizen of the United States.............and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States

Interesting.  So than Arnold can run?
(where's the pukey smiley).

In all seriousness, I'm no constitutional scholar, but I'd think that the word "or" kind of makes a big difference in this whole statement.
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K Frame

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Jamis,

You have to take (and take out) the second and third clauses together, they support each other and are separated from the first clause by the word or. The first clause stands by itself - I messed up in my first post and should have excluded both the second and third clauses.

The second and third clauses ceased being applicable probably sometime around 1820 to 1840 when the last of the people who would have been born elsewhere and become citizens prior to the adoption of the Constitution faded out of the Presidential picture.

That said, I believe that, if he's elected, McCain will be the first president ever born outside of the CONUS.
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Jamisjockey

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Ahhhh comprende mi amigo!
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

K Frame

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Oh, and that clause of the Constitution was never an issue. No American President (that I know of) was ever born outside of the CONUS.

The Framers threw it in there because there were a LOT of people who could have been President but who were born outside of the US.

Perfect example, Alexander Hamilton.

I can't remember for certain, but I THINK that Martin van Buren was the first president born in a post Constitution United States. No. He was born in 1782...

John Tyler was the first born in a post Constitution United States, in 1790.
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drewtam

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I swear, every time I read the thread title latent dyslexia would kick in and I would read "McCain's Birth Canal Zone...".

I mean was he a C-section birth, or a transvestite??? Hillary can run, why can't he?
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Hugh Damright

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Quote
To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.
Wasn't there some issue about Jackson being born at sea?

Desertdog

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Don't you know, it depends on how much somebody is against him as to how much of a stence is raised.

Bogie

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Be interesting to see if someone brings up the Army brat thing...
 
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