"May we suggest you rise and remove your hat"

[jefnvk]

"May we suggest you rise and remove your hat"

I was at a local hockey game the other night.  When the national anthem was sung, that was the phrase that was used.  Not "Please rise, and gentlemen, remove your hats", but more of a "if its not too inconveinent, please show some respect for your country".  Followed by maybe a quarter of the people around me choosing to remain seated, and most of the younger crowd (my age, high school/college) deciding they look much cooler with a hat on.

Is it too much to ask?  Little too hard to show appreciation?

Rant over.

[larry_minn]

Well I was at a function where everyone stood and many stood at attention when the Color Guard brought the flag in.  The Pledge was said LOUDLY and firmly.    Same when Colors retired..
  A young boy became a young man as a Eagle Scout.  I think anyone not handicapped who stayed seated/had hat on would have been (encouraged) to leave.

[Stand_watie]

Are women supposed to remove their hats or just men? I'm confusing church and the national anthem so I disremember

[doczinn]

Sad.

[MaterDei]

What do you expect from a bunch of hockey fans?

(ducking for cover here in the deep south where football is king...)  

[Typhoon]

Pretty sad, actually.  I was in D.C. on a business trip not too long ago.  I paid my respects at Arlington and visited the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.  During the changing of the guard, my automatic response was to stand up straight, put my hands behind my back, and be reverent.  

I was the only one who did that.  

Most of the folks were lounging on the stairs just hanging out and waiting for the theatre.  (The rest&never mind&)  I suppose that Arlington was just one of the stops on their tour.  They seemed to have no clue as to what the tradition actually represented.

Thanks, Mom and Dad&

[client32]

What do you expect from a bunch of hockey fans?

(ducking for cover here in the deep south where football is king...)  

I'm digging up old threads.

Ever been to a Dallas Stars game?
The one I went to, everyone was standing and singing.  
Of course they would yell the word star everytime it came up.

Whose broad stripes and bright STARS!!!,

You get the point.

[Azrael256]

A young boy became a young man as a Eagle Scout.

Indeed.  I also notice that the 12th point of the law is ignored regularly in this same manner.  I see kids all the time with hats on in church.  Usually they'll take them off during the service (usually...) but I would be expecting to dodge lightning bolts if I didn't take it off when I walk in the door.  And I'm Jewish.

[RevDisk]

"May we suggest you rise and remove your hat"

What's wrong with asking in a polite manner?  

Well I was at a function where everyone stood and many stood at attention when the Color Guard brought the flag in.  The Pledge was said LOUDLY and firmly.    Same when Colors retired..

I have not said the Pledge since 9th or 10th grade.  I refuse to do so.  Perhaps because of the fact that it was written by a Socialist who wanted to increase nationalism.  (Hint, does anyone know what the National Socialism Party was unofficially called?)   I don't swear allegiance to any flag, I swear it to the Constitution.   Or maybe I'm a godless commie scum who just hates freedom.   (Bwahaha, funny people repeating Socialist propaganda accusing me of being commie always puts a smile on my face.)


I tried to petition my school to require copies of the Constitution and Bill of Rights to be posted in every classroom.    No dice.  So I got permission from my homeroom teacher to tape up copies of the Constitution, BoR, and DoI on the wall.  My homeroom teacher was "earth sciences" (rocks and such), but she thought my uh, beliefs were amusing and indulged them.   After everyone else said the pledge to the flag, I said my pledge to the Constitution.

I always made a point of meantioning "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God", which is the only reference to religion in any of the founding documents of our country.  Good enough for them, good enough for me.  Man did that piss off the fundies.

[spacemanspiff]

you know, i'm not patriotic, but i will stand for the Anthem, and i do take my hat off. even though i won't pledge my allegiance to the flag, i will not disrespect it in any way, or for that matter, any of the traditions held dear by those who have served this nation.

and thats whats at the heart of this thread: a lack of respect.

[grampster]

You rock Spiffy.  Your point about respect is what just about every nit picker misses.  My dad, rest his soul, back in the 70's began to tell me Americans were losing their sense of humor about things.  A sense of humor is not just about laughing at things.  First, it's really about having a joyful outlook and seeing that your joy was nourished enough so that your skin had an appropriate thickness.  Secondly, that one was secure enough in his own beliefs that one did not get unduly upset by other's beliefs, no matter how off the wall they might seem.

[jefnvk]

Yep, spiff hit my thought on the head.  When I posted this, it was more of shock that people didn't seem to take the National Anthem any more seriously that the top rap song.  More of a 'oh, its that thing again, how long will it take this time, my hot dog is getting cold and my beer is getting warm'

Maybe I'm just given a false impression of sports fans by all the Nascar races I go to.

[grampster]

I'm a AHL hockey nut.  Our team, the Gr Griffins, have a guy named John who is an opera singer do the anthem at our games.  The crowd really gets into it and there is usually a 5 minute ovation (cheering, whistling) after he finishes the anthem as he really plays to the crowd as well as sings the anthem really, really well.  For a few minutes it's all about being an American and free.  When we have Canadian teams, I watch the crowd as John does Oh, Canada.  Crowd is very respectful.

[possenti]

"I tried to petition my school to require copies of the Constitution and Bill of Rights to be posted in every classroom."

That is the coolest thing I've read all day.  My hat's off to you.

Of course, I stand for the pledge out of respect, and I don't care much for seeing someone burning the flag, BUT...

Compared to the principles and standards put forth in our founding documents, the pledge and the flag mean very little to me.

It really pisses me off to hear a politician or other public figure talk about how important the flag is, but at the same time ignoring - or downright undermining - the Constitution.   The sheep of this country gladly follow along and "honor the flag", simply because they're lazy and it's easier than having to read and comprehend the documents that laid the groundwork for a free nation.

Respecting the flag is fine, but this country really needs to get its priorities in order.

[The Rabbi]

This is hysterical.  Its invasion of the screename snatchers.  All the guys here who have been bothering me about coercion on the drug thread on THR are all in favor of coercing people to take their hats off.
Guys, its their choice.  If people want to act like jerks and be disrespectful, they can do that.  You may not approve of their values but you have to respect them.  They arent hurting anyone, are they?
Me, I never take my hat off.  But tonight was my daughter's graduation from 6th grade and at the beginning they played the National Anthem and of course I stood right up and sang (off-key) with tears in my eyes.  Singing the anthem does that to me.

[Paddy]

They'll appreciate liberty a little more after they lose it.

[RevDisk]

They'll appreciate liberty a little more after they lose it.

Considering how much liberty they've already lost and how few people appreciate it these days...   I doubt it.   As long as beer's in the fridge, and nascar is on the TV, the masses will be perfectly happy.

[HForrest]

RevDisk beat me to my general point.  I don't say the pledge of allegiance in school- and it's not because I think I look cooler.

Strong nationalism/patriotism is a dangerous idea, and it's how facism and brainwashing work. I don't love my country- I love my liberty. True, the U.S. was built on freedom, but I'll put my love and pride straight in those freedoms and not the illusion of them- The way the United States is heading right now makes it look like I won't have them much longer.

[Fjolnirsson]

Strange this came up just now. My wife was performing at a city function last week. Dedication of a big-dollar city renovation/invigoration project. First off, she was shocked (being from CA) when they announced the playing of the national anthem. Mind you, our city only has about 8,000 residents. When they made the announcement, she said, every person in the crowd stood up, facing the flag, and they all placed their hands over their hearts, with the men removing their hats (in the pouring rain mind you) to do so. I was floored when she told me this. In the Bay Area, I've seen a participation ratio of about 20%, and much of that is halfhearted(anxious for that hot dog). I'm glad to live in an area where folks stand for the Anthem. People here give me hope for the Republic. There's a lot of awareness here about the state of the Republic, and folks are fightin' mad, too. what I find more encouraging is, Liberal or Conservative, 9 out of 10 cars here have a support the troops sentiment on their car. Even the folks here who hate Bush still run drives for the troops. Even the folks who believe Kerry is a drooling moron discuss it over coffee with their neighbors who supported him. There's a lot of non-partisan stuff happening here.  
It's amazingly......rational.

[Fjolnirsson]

See, that's the thing, though. Folks here actually do both. Lots of care packages and letters sent out, big banners on main street welcoming home local boys, that sort if thing. They put on the sticker, then follow up on it. There's real sentiment behind those stickers 'round here.

City hall flies the POW/MIA flag below the American.

[Norton]

We do the Pledge at school everyday, and I while I share some of the concerns about the origins of the Pledge I stand and I expect my students to stand.  

I don't say the words, maybe some sort of latent 'false idol' thing from my early church days, but I do stand and place my hand over my heart as a demonstration and affirmation of what that flag stands for to me.

Hmmm....maybe I need a copy of the Constitution/BoR/DoI for the classroom next year.  That should get my leftist colleagues bent pretty well out of shape.

[Dannyboy]

Strong nationalism/patriotism is a dangerous idea, and it's how facism and brainwashing work.

Really?  Why is that, because some group of wackos used the name National Socialist Party 70 years ago?  They also used an old Christian symbol on their flag.  Guess we shouldn't be Christians anymore, huh?  Atheistic globalists.  Hmmm, sounds like the Dems would finally get their way.    

na·tion·al·ism   Audio pronunciation of "nationalism" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (nsh-n-lzm, nshn-)
n.

   1. Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.
   2. The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
   3. Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.

Yup, those are all bad things.

[grampster]

I sort of wonder about the folks here that put their personal freedom to behave in a fashion that seems to put individualism on a higher plane than the common good.

Here's what I wonder:  You live in the city.  What if your neighbors on each side of you decided to raise pigs and turkeys?

[Sean Smith]

People SHOULD demonstrate proper respect for what several million Americans have died to preserve.  They should not be FORCED to do so, because several million Americans died so they wouldn't live in a country that would do that.

And so we move on to the Nazis, the perfect negative example for everyone's pet peeve of the day.  Yawn.

The short response is that the Nazis weren't just a manifestation of naughty German nationalism.   Most German parties were nationalistic, with the exception of the Communists, which were Soviet puppets.  Most of them were also relatively benign parties.  Nationalism wasn't the Nazi's distinguishing characteristic, so using Nazism to slander Nationalism is illogical.

It's like saying caring about children is bad, because it is used as a pretext by a-hole politicians to do stupid things.  Opposing gun control doesn't mean you have to throw children in the wood chipper.

[brimic]

The only place I ever see the 'Pledge of Allegience' anymore is at the opening of the meetings at the Rifle and Pistol club I belong to. As about 3/4 of the members are veterans, some going back as far as WWII, I wouldn't want to be the one not standing up and taking my hat off for it.  Must be a bunch of goll darn facist nationlist imperialists Nazi socialists that belong to the club.