Trump is rallying again...

[RocketMan]

I'm not going to say anything about a single vote, except that they add up to multiple votes. There is no way your candidate will win, if a bunch of his supporters stay home. Remember, the fewer the votes for the other guy, the easier it is to cheat.

There is no way for your candidate to win regardless, when the opposition manufactures whatever votes are necessary for their candidate to win.  Not voting has zero net effect when opposition votes are being manufactured out of thin air.
Voting becomes an exercise in futility for the party that refuses to commit fraud.

[Bogie]

Audits are what matter.
 
Recounting fraudulent ballots doesn't do anything except show that the recount had a lot of numbers.
 
What needs to happen is that if you see fraud, you need to get someone arrested. If you see a table set up in the campus student center, and can prove that people are registering, and filling out their mail-in ballots, on multiple occasions, get evidence, and call the cops. Call the papers and other news organizations. Same thing with urban "get out the vote" programs.

[Hawkmoon]

It CAN happen.  Over 100 years ago, Grover Cleveland served two NON-consecutive terms as President, #22 and #24.

Yes, but I was thinking of Trump winning reelection for one more four-year term (which would be the last time he could be elected as President), and then going on in a handshake deal with his VP to switch roles and get a third term by succession.

[Bogie]

I like that idea mostly because it will give serious conniption fits to folks like a lady I saw tonight, who had a tat that was "45" with a red circle/slash over it. And too much perfume, and Hot Topic hair.

[Hawkmoon]

I like that idea mostly because it will give serious conniption fits to folks like a lady I saw tonight, who had a tat that was "45" with a red circle/slash over it. And too much perfume, and Hot Topic hair.

That's why I like it. If he could pull it off, the caterwauling from the left would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

[Bogie]

The woke hipsters don't understand anything beyond what their belief system has authorized...
 
A lot of them REALLY hate the whole "judge a person according to who they are, rather than what race they are" concept. You can damn near see their brains lock up if you phrase it right.

[Bogie]

"Minority rights are important."
 
And they nod...
 
"And the individual is the smallest minority."
 
And they start to look panicked.

[dogmush]

Voting becomes an exercise in futility for the party that refuses to commit fraud.

Do you think there is a party that refuses to commit fraud?

[RocketMan]

Do you think there is a party that refuses to commit fraud?

There is a party that commits much less fraud because they tend to be more law abiding.  Certainly much less organized fraud sanctioned by their leadership.

[Bogie]

Fraud is no longer fraud if it is done for the greater good of stopping nazis.

[dogmush]

There is a party that commits much less fraud because they tend to be more law abiding.  Certainly much less organized fraud sanctioned by their leadership.

I have seen no evidence that the party leaders of the R's "tend to be more law abiding" then the party leaders of the D's.  The voters? Maybe,  but they aren't the ones doing fraud.

I think one would have to be pretty hopelessly naive to think the local party flunkies in areas that are contestable aren't all plotting pretty much the same thing.

[Perd Hapley]

There is no way for your candidate to win regardless, when the opposition manufactures whatever votes are necessary for their candidate to win.  Not voting has zero net effect when opposition votes are being manufactured out of thin air.
Voting becomes an exercise in futility for the party that refuses to commit fraud.

Yeah, just give up. That's the spirit.

[Perd Hapley]

I have seen no evidence that the party leaders of the R's "tend to be more law abiding" then the party leaders of the D's.  The voters? Maybe,  but they aren't the ones doing fraud.

I think one would have to be pretty hopelessly naive to think the local party flunkies in areas that are contestable aren't all plotting pretty much the same thing.

What a stupid argument to be having right now.

[RocketMan]

Yeah, just give up. That's the spirit.

What's that definition of insanity again?  Something about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?
And where exactly did I mention giving up?

[Ben]

What a stupid argument to be having right now.

That's a bit of a drive-by response. Maybe elaborate a little so we can discuss?

[WLJ]

If there is absolutely no way for your supported candidate to win an election, then what is the point of voting?  And please don't raise that hoary canard about a single vote making a difference.

That is exactly what they want you to think. All they have to do is convince enough voters to think that way and by most indications  based on R turn out they usually succeed.
How many people truly honestly gave Trump any sort of chance in 2016? Hillary already had the new WH window curtains picked out for goodness sake.

[RocketMan]

That is exactly what they want you to think. All they have to do is convince enough voters to think that way and by most indications  based on R turn out they usually succeed.
How many people truly honestly gave Trump any sort of chance in 2016? Hillary already had the new WH window curtains picked out for goodness sake.

That argument is without merit when the opposition manufactures fraudulent ballots wholesale.

[Hawkmoon]

That argument is without merit when the opposition manufactures fraudulent ballots wholesale.

And, IMHO, what that means is that the Rs, the Is, the Ls, and the Us (that's Republicans, Independents, Libertarians, and Unaffiliateds) need to double down on observing the voting and counting process in future elections. Where possible, all of those groups need to cooperate in keeping tabs on voter registration efforts on college campuses and in places like nursing homes.

We also need to keep the pressure on the Rs in Congress to push for stricter laws on voting and voter registration.

[Hawkmoon]

And I just found this:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/04/politics/voter-id-james-clyburn-cnntv/index.html

Not even a hard-core D is opposed to voter ID. I think it needs to be pushed -- at least for federal elections. If states want to allow their internal elections to be hijacked, that's their problem. Personally, I WANT someone to check my ID when I vote. As I have commented before, if I show up to vote after work and they turn me away because "I" voted earlier in the day -- I'm not going to be a happy camper.

Although, in reality, I think it's more likely that the Ds are just registering dead people and pets, and then submitting mail-in ballots on behalf of the phony registrations. Which is another reason we shouldn't allow mail-in ballots except for a few LIMITED exceptions for absentee ballots.

[kgbsquirrel]

Yeah, just give up. That's the spirit.

Once enough people agree voting no longer works as advertised then they can move on to fixing it and stop just playing along with their own defeat.

[Ben]

Not even a hard-core D is opposed to voter ID.

Well, not opposed NOW. He, like may of them in congress, was adamantly opposed to voter ID until very recently. Now that numbers are coming out showing even many left-leaning voters (that aren't BLM, antifa, the MSM, et al) are pro-voter ID, suddenly all these people are reversing course and "explaining what they actually meant". I think the last holdouts might be Pelosi and the squad. 

I won't be surprised if within a month we'll be hearing and reading in the MSM about how the Republicans have been thwarting voter ID this whole time. Sorta how Psaki is currently gaslighting that it was Republicans calling to defund the police all last year.

[Perd Hapley]

What's that definition of insanity again?  Something about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?
And where exactly did I mention giving up?

If you won't do something that's easy and has no downside, you've obviously given up.

[dogmush]

What a stupid argument to be having right now.

It's the same arguement I've been making for years: Both parties are irretrievably broken, and by voting R/D when the candidates are laughably corrupt narcissists (at best) you are prolonging a doomed system.

We may be stuck with a two party system, but the parties can (and have in the past) changed, and they need to now.

I'm sorry if you feel that pointing out that your laughably corrupt team isn't worth voting for over the other laughably corrupt team, but maybe make your team less shitty.

[Perd Hapley]

It's the same arguement I've been making for years: Both parties are irretrievably broken, and by voting R/D when the candidates are laughably corrupt narcissists (at best) you are prolonging a doomed system.

We may be stuck with a two party system, but the parties can (and have in the past) changed, and they need to now.

I'm sorry if you feel that pointing out that your laughably corrupt team isn't worth voting for over the other laughably corrupt team, but maybe make your team less shitty.

Yeah, we're going to bring down the two-party system by not voting. 

How crazy that I would strongly prefer the more American-friendly of the two laughable whatevers. How silly of me. Boy I must be one of those starry-eyed party loyalists that can't stand your super-genius-level realism. How dare you crush my dreams? I shall pray to Saint Trump for the salvation of your soul.

 The party that has the most influential press organs (and other, uh, organs) in its pocket is going to be the less law-abiding. Makes sense, right?

[kgbsquirrel]

If you won't do something that's easy and has no downside, you've obviously given up.

Giving legitimacy to fraud by participation is a huge downside.