Author Topic: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley  (Read 23914 times)

Tallpine

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2008, 01:37:26 PM »
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So everyone complaining about this move thinks you should be able to open up a strip club and a porn emporium next door to the local middle school?

Who let them build a school next to a strip club Huh?   grin
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TF_FH

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2008, 02:11:37 PM »
The local zoning board should treat all business equally, as is the intent of laws.  That means that if a particular location is zoned appropriatly for an ice cream shop, then a strip club, gun store, gas station, or smoke shop should also be allowed there.
"Trevor's Strip Club and Ice Cream Parlor", ask about our double dip special!   laugh   I figured I would bring a little humor into the thread.  Just imagine the markup on the ice cream!

Back on topic...
I do see why businesses should all be treated equally, EXCEPT for a strip club(Or other adult oriented store).  Not that I think they are inappropriate in general, I feel that it would be inappropriate right next to a school(maybe next to a college would be ok to me as you are all 'adults') as it is a purely adult business.  You can bring your kids into a gun shop, smoke shop, gas station, etc.  But you can't into a strip club because of the fact that it is for "erotic adult entertainment", and not exactly suited for kids.  (Think movie ratings NC-17 and X)  You shouldn't be trying to bring them in there anyway.  (If so, you should have your mental health checked by a professional in the psychiatric field.)

Well, thats my 7 cents.  Feel free to nitpick my post too  rolleyes




seeker_two

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2008, 02:37:41 PM »
Is there anything in Bezerkley worth looting?

Expresso machines and Beret hats.

Espresso.

And what color are the Berets?

Raspberry....... Wink
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Tecumseh

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2008, 05:46:47 PM »
The local zoning board should treat all business equally, as is the intent of laws.  That means that if a particular location is zoned appropriatly for an ice cream shop, then a strip club, gun store, gas station, or smoke shop should also be allowed there.
"Trevor's Strip Club and Ice Cream Parlor", ask about our double dip special!   laugh   I figured I would bring a little humor into the thread.  Just imagine the markup on the ice cream!

Back on topic...
I do see why businesses should all be treated equally, EXCEPT for a strip club(Or other adult oriented store).  Not that I think they are inappropriate in general, I feel that it would be inappropriate right next to a school(maybe next to a college would be ok to me as you are all 'adults') as it is a purely adult business.  You can bring your kids into a gun shop, smoke shop, gas station, etc.  But you can't into a strip club because of the fact that it is for "erotic adult entertainment", and not exactly suited for kids.  (Think movie ratings NC-17 and X)  You shouldn't be trying to bring them in there anyway.  (If so, you should have your mental health checked by a professional in the psychiatric field.)

Well, thats my 7 cents.  Feel free to nitpick my post too  rolleyes


Why is it any less appropriate than a gunshop next to a school?  It is private business.  Why is any less appropriate next to a school then say a gas station? 

And why shouldn't people be able to bring their kid into an adult book store?  If you can bring them into a smoke shop why not an adult bookstore?  Its not like they can buy anything.  So you like the idea of the government telling you how to raise your kids? 

TF_FH

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2008, 06:51:30 AM »
So you like the idea of the government telling you how to raise your kids?
How is my opinion of "You shouldn't be bringing your kids into strip clubs, etc." the government telling me how to raise my kid? 

And to answer your
And why shouldn't people be able to bring their kid into an adult book store?  If you can bring them into a smoke shop why not an adult bookstore?  Its not like they can buy anything.

Well hmm.  I suppose we should just bring little Suzie, our fictional 9 year old through the sex toy section and after that, we'll go through the gay porn and follow it up by letting the kid browse the hustler mags!  Hey, wait a minute, she can't buy anything, so its ok.  Sounds more like you are actually advocating that kind of behavior to me.  Good job.

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2008, 02:04:38 PM »
So you dislike local small government?  This is just a local group of people telling the Federales to shove it.  And yet you do not support it?  Why is that? 

No, I personally think that's fine.

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So you would cut off their aid from the government?  Would you also have the gall to collect their taxes? 

Hell yes, and no. I'm just fine with California losing federal tax subsidy, and equally fine with them not paying it, either. It'd make it easier for them to leave the nation, which is what they'd probably do if things got tough nationally, anyway. (As it stands, the economy in the rest of the country is likely holding their head just above the water.)

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I am for small government.  And I think this is an excellent idea.  If people want to join the military, then they will find out how. 
Eyup. But, on the other hand, what if such prohibitions were put on gun shops in your area? (Such prohibition probably already stands in Berkley, I imagine.) Would that not be a violation of civil liberties? Granted, joining the military isn't a right, per se (it's a duty), but the comparison, I think, is valid.

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I think it says a lot about our country when people do not want to serve it.  My GUESS is that people are tired of war. 

I can't speak for that, but I am personally tired of an ineffective and poorly perused war. There is absolutely no reason why we could not have won this war in the same way that we won World War II. We're probably beyond that point, now, but that's another story - probably best told and discussed elsewhere.

Scout26

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2008, 03:04:49 PM »
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Quote
And what color are the Berets?

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Raspberry

Nah, they're all powder blue.   No Black, Tan, Maroon, or Green, too military and icky.

Quote from: Caimlas
There is absolutely no reason why we could not have won this war in the same way that we won World War II.

We did, even faster (WWII - 4+ years, Iraq 3 months).  Last I checked we still had quite a sizable force in Germany.  Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100-120K troops. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/dod/eucom.htm   And there's still quite a US Military presence in Japan http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/dod/usfj.htm  (though most forces moved to Korea in the early '50's, there's still ~40K+ US forces in Japan.

So my math comes to about 150K troops in Germany and Japan 60+ years after the war ended.  We've got ~130-150K troops in Iraq ~5 years after that war ended.    I think we need to pull our troops out of Germany and Japan first.  Roosevelt's and Truman's folly have gone on for far too long.   rolleyes

Took over ten years to end the occupation in Germany and allow their sovereignity, which was five years after Germans voted and the Allies approved The Basic Law.  IIRC, General of the Army MacArthur (note the non-Japanese sounding name) wrote Japan's Constitution back in 1947 and it wasn't until 1952 that they regained their sovereignty.

So here we are ~5 years later with a country with no real democratic tradition (both Germany and Japan were functioning parlimentary democracies prior to the war) and everyone is screaming "It's not working, we need to pull out !!!"   I have confidence that the Iraqis are smart enough to make it work, it just that all good things take time.



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Tecumseh

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2008, 03:14:37 PM »
So you like the idea of the government telling you how to raise your kids?
How is my opinion of "You shouldn't be bringing your kids into strip clubs, etc." the government telling me how to raise my kid? 

And to answer your
And why shouldn't people be able to bring their kid into an adult book store?  If you can bring them into a smoke shop why not an adult bookstore?  Its not like they can buy anything.

Well hmm.  I suppose we should just bring little Suzie, our fictional 9 year old through the sex toy section and after that, we'll go through the gay porn and follow it up by letting the kid browse the hustler mags!  Hey, wait a minute, she can't buy anything, so its ok.  Sounds more like you are actually advocating that kind of behavior to me.  Good job.
You implied that the government should not treat strip clubs and adult bookstores the same as other shops in regards to their locations.  Thus creating a seperate class for them.  I do think that all businesses should be treated as equal, however if the local government wants that.  I dont think their should be laws passed to prohibit some businesses, just not issuing permits for hte business if the locals do not want it.

And I am not advocating that behavior at all.  I just think that the government should not decide where I can bring my kid.  Some people view taking your child to the gunshop the same as to a porn shop.  Just something to think about.

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2008, 03:16:06 PM »
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Last I checked we still had quite a sizable force in Germany.  Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100-120K troops

And how many are killed by 'insurgent' Nazis every day?

Perd Hapley

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2008, 04:53:57 PM »
  I just think that the government should not decide where I can bring my kid.  Some people view taking your child to the gunshop the same as to a porn shop.  Just something to think about. 


Trekkie wasn't talking about laws that keep parents from taking their kids to those places.  He was talking about where the stores are allowed to be located.  I believe porn stores and gun stores are sometimes prohibited, near schools. 
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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2008, 08:49:38 PM »
Quote from:  RileyMc
And how many are killed by 'insurgent' Nazis every day?

The before the wall came down, the old Bader-Meinhof Gang and Red Brigades managed to get a few (Berlin Disco Bombing being one incident that happened while I was there).   I'd have to check/search but I remember reading about the overall death rate in the Army being lower as since there's no booze or POV's (Privately Owned Vehicles for you non-military types) in Iraq, fewer soldiers were dying from accidents/being dumb in a no stupid zone.

I attended 28 autopsies in the year I was deputy PM, mostly from either vehicle and/or alcohol related causes, with training accidents being a close third.   
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
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Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Manedwolf

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2008, 04:15:02 AM »
They should not put gun stores next to public schools, no.

With all those "good boys turning their life around", it's not a safe environment for the gun store owner.


Tecumseh

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2008, 08:30:05 AM »
  I just think that the government should not decide where I can bring my kid.  Some people view taking your child to the gunshop the same as to a porn shop.  Just something to think about. 


Trekkie wasn't talking about laws that keep parents from taking their kids to those places.  He was talking about where the stores are allowed to be located.  I believe porn stores and gun stores are sometimes prohibited, near schools. 
True but my question is... do you agree with the prohibition of gun shops near schools? 

Tecumseh

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2008, 08:31:35 AM »
Quote from:  RileyMc
And how many are killed by 'insurgent' Nazis every day?

The before the wall came down, the old Bader-Meinhof Gang and Red Brigades managed to get a few (Berlin Disco Bombing being one incident that happened while I was there).   I'd have to check/search but I remember reading about the overall death rate in the Army being lower as since there's no booze or POV's (Privately Owned Vehicles for you non-military types) in Iraq, fewer soldiers were dying from accidents/being dumb in a no stupid zone.

I attended 28 autopsies in the year I was deputy PM, mostly from either vehicle and/or alcohol related causes, with training accidents being a close third.   
Baader-Meinhorf and the Red Brigades were communists not Nazis.  They were also not uniformed members of the military but terrorists.  We defeated the German military about 20-30 years before these guys became active. 

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2008, 10:53:15 AM »
My dad wasn't wounded until -after- the war... We'd pretty much kicked major tail, but a lot of the Germans saw it more as a marketing opportunity than as anything else... Instant ugly black market stuff...
 
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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2008, 12:34:03 PM »
Quote from:  RileyMc
And how many are killed by 'insurgent' Nazis every day?

The before the wall came down, the old Bader-Meinhof Gang and Red Brigades managed to get a few (Berlin Disco Bombing being one incident that happened while I was there).   I'd have to check/search but I remember reading about the overall death rate in the Army being lower as since there's no booze or POV's (Privately Owned Vehicles for you non-military types) in Iraq, fewer soldiers were dying from accidents/being dumb in a no stupid zone.

I attended 28 autopsies in the year I was deputy PM, mostly from either vehicle and/or alcohol related causes, with training accidents being a close third.   
Baader-Meinhorf and the Red Brigades were communists not Nazis.  They were also not uniformed members of the military but terrorists.  We defeated the German military about 20-30 years before these guys became active. 

The insurgents in Iraq are primarily Sunni/Shia fundamentalists not Baath Party members, and most of them aren't wearing military uniforms (do to not having been soldiers) either.

Oh, and we defeated the Iraqi military a couple weeks after we started fighting them.  The insurgency took a bit to really spin up as well.

I would also point out the duration and difference in warfighting and the subsequent effects on the civilian population, which influences will and ability to resist, between WWII Germany and Iraq.

Next "zinger"?
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Tecumseh

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2008, 02:30:46 PM »
My point was that Baader-Meinhorf and the Red Brigades had nothing to do with the Nazis. 

But either way, I thought that we were fighting insurgents not terrorists?  If someone invaded our country, I suspect there would be a large insurgency.  Where were the insurgents if they were not fighting until a few weeks after the Iraqi military was defeated? 

Perd Hapley

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2008, 02:32:25 PM »
  I just think that the government should not decide where I can bring my kid.  Some people view taking your child to the gunshop the same as to a porn shop.  Just something to think about. 


Trekkie wasn't talking about laws that keep parents from taking their kids to those places.  He was talking about where the stores are allowed to be located.  I believe porn stores and gun stores are sometimes prohibited, near schools. 
True but my question is... do you agree with the prohibition of gun shops near schools? 

I am not interested in your question, just pointing that you misconstrued Trek's argument.  If I said yes to your query, would that have any bearing on the shenanigans in Berkeley?  How? 
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Tecumseh

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2008, 03:07:08 PM »
I dont think that I misconstrued his argument.  To me gunshops and porn shops are essentially the same thing.  If you can prohibit one near a school, what is wrong with prohibiting the other?

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2008, 04:26:45 PM »
My point was that Baader-Meinhorf and the Red Brigades had nothing to do with the Nazis. 

Right, just like the insurgents we are now fighting in Iraq have no relationship to the ruling Baath party that we actually defeated during the war.  Like the WWII Nazi "Werwolf" post-defeat, pro-Nazi insurgency, the Baath Party's planned insurgency didn't last long either.  Instead, we are facing "come-later" insurgents who, rather than reestablishing Baath Party rule, have establishing some sort of theocracy as their goal.  Just like Baader-Meinhof and the Red Brigade were not interested in reestablishing Naziism but rather Communism. [/quote]

Quote
But either way, I thought that we were fighting insurgents not terrorists?  If someone invaded our country, I suspect there would be a large insurgency.  Where were the insurgents if they were not fighting until a few weeks after the Iraqi military was defeated? 

If you are attempting to remove what you view to be a false regime from your country you are by some definitions an insurgent.  That does not mean you cannot also be a terrorist due to the methods you choose to use in your insurgency.  The terms are not mutually exclusive.

As for where the curretn religiously-based insurgents were immediately post-defeat, I assume most were hunkered down getting a handle on the situaton and deciding if there was anything that needed insurging against.

The parallels aren't exact because of the greater length and devastation of WWII but most Germans were pretty happy with the post-war situation, especially as they went from "how do I eat, please keep the Soviets away from me" to massive American infusions of cash and supplies after 3 hard years of shortages and death from above.

It was only after survival was assured, and a generation of leisure-living collegiate types was born, that the commie minded had the time to get together and whine about capitalist oppression by the Americans and their German lackeys and some few decided to take direct action.

Iraq didn't suffer that much for very long before the war against Saddam and his Baath party was "Mission Accomplished".  Mopping up his Baathists took a while longer but their cause was more or less obviously hopeless so they didn't have much fight in 'em.

The current insurgents arose in large part due to outside instigation, by Iran and the militants like al-Queda (actually much like Sov instigation of the Red types in Europe).  Those with axes to grind got a shot of Islamic fervor and commenced to insurging, helped along by old religious, tribal and clan scores not present to such a degree in Germany or most Western countries.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2008, 09:21:51 PM »
I dont think that I misconstrued his argument. 


You did misconstrue his argument.  Going back over his post, I can see where you may have been misled.  Let's just say there was a mix-up in communication and move on.   smiley

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 To me gunshops and porn shops are essentially the same thing.
We could start a whole thread of humorous responses to that statement.  I'll just let it be.   cheesy

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If you can prohibit one near a school, what is wrong with prohibiting the other?


How would this apply to the military recruitment offices?  Even if one could argue that gun shops aren't appropriate for school zones, how could such reasoning apply to recruitment offices?  High school students are obviously a major and necessary source of recruits for the military. 
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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2008, 12:57:30 AM »
Legally there should be no difference.  Meaning that no laws should be passed restricting behavior, location, or who may enter the shops.  However if the local population does not want the shop there, then they should not be forced to put the shop there.  But to enact a law against it is what I am suggesting. 

For example in my hometown of Orland Park, IL the Dicks Sporting Goods was not allowed to sell firearms as they are to close to a school.  But they fought hard and most people probably would not have cared but the fact that there was a law against it was the big issue. 

Either way I am just against laws discriminating against certain businesses.

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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2008, 02:23:10 AM »
Legally there should be no difference. 


I thought that was what you meant.  Trek was correct, though, that a gun store is not an "adults-only" type of place.  No reason why kids shouldn't see it, go to it, or be around it.  And a military recruitment office is not just kid-friendly, it is a place where some high-school boys ought to be going. 

A porn shop IS an "adults-only" type of place, and I don't really care whether anyone else agrees or not.  So while I wouldn't necessarily support a law against taking little Suzie with you to the porn store, zoning them away from schools is probably something I'd agree with. 

You vote your way, and I'll vote mine.  I think different towns should be able to pass different laws.  Some towns are dry towns that don't allow alcohol to be sold.  I think that's OK.  I probably would be OK with a town that decided not to allow gun stores. 
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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #73 on: February 03, 2008, 10:34:07 AM »
I think the recruiting offices would get more walk-in business (from 17-18 year old boys anyway) if they were co-located with porn shops.
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Re: Military Recruiters = Pornographers in Berkeley
« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2008, 10:49:18 AM »
Legally there should be no difference. 


I thought that was what you meant.  Trek was correct, though, that a gun store is not an "adults-only" type of place.  No reason why kids shouldn't see it, go to it, or be around it.  And a military recruitment office is not just kid-friendly, it is a place where some high-school boys ought to be going. 

A porn shop IS an "adults-only" type of place, and I don't really care whether anyone else agrees or not.  So while I wouldn't necessarily support a law against taking little Suzie with you to the porn store, zoning them away from schools is probably something I'd agree with. 

You vote your way, and I'll vote mine.  I think different towns should be able to pass different laws.  Some towns are dry towns that don't allow alcohol to be sold.  I think that's OK.  I probably would be OK with a town that decided not to allow gun stores. 
  Fair enough.