Author Topic: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping  (Read 6874 times)

nplant

  • New Member
  • Posts: 2
CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« on: February 04, 2008, 01:10:20 PM »
I found this a bit disturbing.
---------------------------
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/02/04/fbi.biometrics/index.html
From Kelli Arena and Carol Cratty
CNN

CLARKSBURG, West Virginia (CNN) -- The FBI is gearing up to create a massive computer database of people's physical characteristics, all part of an effort the bureau says to better identify criminals and terrorists.

The FBI wants to use eye scans, combined with other data, to help identify suspects.

But it's an issue that raises major privacy concerns -- what one civil liberties expert says should concern all Americans.

The bureau is expected to announce in coming days the awarding of a $1 billion, 10-year contract to help create the database that will compile an array of biometric information -- from palm prints to eye scans.

Kimberly Del Greco, the FBI's Biometric Services section chief, said adding to the database is "important to protect the borders to keep the terrorists out, protect our citizens, our neighbors, our children so they can have good jobs, and have a safe country to live in."

But it's unnerving to privacy experts.

"It's the beginning of the surveillance society where you can be tracked anywhere, any time and all your movements, and eventually all your activities will be tracked and noted and correlated," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Technology and Liberty Project.

The FBI already has 55 million sets of fingerprints on file. In coming years, the bureau wants to compare palm prints, scars and tattoos, iris eye patterns, and facial shapes. The idea is to combine various pieces of biometric information to positively identify a potential suspect.

A lot will depend on how quickly technology is perfected, according to Thomas Bush, the FBI official in charge of the Clarksburg, West Virginia, facility where the FBI houses its current fingerprint database.

"Fingerprints will still be the big player," Bush, assistant director of the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services Division, told CNN.

But he added, "Whatever the biometric that comes down the road, we need to be able to plug that in and play."

First up, he said, are palm prints. The FBI has already begun collecting images and hopes to soon use these as an additional means of making identifications. Countries that are already using such images find 20 percent of their positive matches come from latent palm prints left at crime scenes, the FBI's Bush said.

The FBI has also started collecting mug shots and pictures of scars and tattoos. These images are being stored for now as the technology is fine-tuned. All of the FBI's biometric data is stored on computers 30-feet underground in the Clarksburg facility.

In addition, the FBI could soon start comparing people's eyes -- specifically the iris, or the colored part of an eye -- as part of its new biometrics program called Next Generation Identification.

Nearby, at West Virginia University's Center for Identification Technology Research, researchers are already testing some of these technologies that will ultimately be used by the FBI.

"The best increase in accuracy will come from fusing different biometrics together," said Bojan Cukic, the co-director of the center.

But while law enforcement officials are excited about the possibilities of these new technologies, privacy advocates are upset the FBI will be collecting so much personal information.

"People who don't think mistakes are going to be made I don't think fly enough," said Steinhardt.

He said thousands of mistakes have been made with the use of the so-called no-fly lists at airports -- and that giving law enforcement widespread data collection techniques should cause major privacy alarms.

"There are real consequences to people," Steinhardt said.

You don't have to be a criminal or a terrorist to be checked against the database. More than 55 percent of the checks the FBI runs involve criminal background checks for people applying for sensitive jobs in government or jobs working with vulnerable people such as children and the elderly, according to the FBI.

The FBI says it hasn't been saving the fingerprints for those checks, but that may change. The FBI plans a so-called "rap-back" service in which an employer could ask the FBI to keep the prints for an employee on file and let the employer know if the person ever has a brush with the law. The FBI says it will first have to clear hurdles with state privacy laws, and people would have to sign waivers allowing their information to be kept.

Critics say people are being forced to give up too much personal information. But Lawrence Hornak, the co-director of the research center at West Virginia University, said it could actually enhance people's privacy.

"It allows you to project your identity as being you," said Hornak. "And it allows people to avoid identity theft, things of that nature."

There remains the question of how reliable these new biometric technologies will be. A 2006 German study looking at facial recognition in a crowded train station found successful matches could be made 60 percent of the time during the day. But when lighting conditions worsened at night, the results shrank to a success rate of 10 to 20 percent.

As work on these technologies continues, researchers are quick to admit what's proven to be the most accurate so far. "Iris technology is perceived today, together with fingerprints, to be the most accurate," said Cukic.

But in the future all kinds of methods may be employed. Some researchers are looking at the way people walk as a possible additional means of identification.

The FBI says it will protect all this personal data and only collect information on criminals and those seeking sensitive jobs.

The ACLU's Steinhardt doesn't believe it will stop there.

"This had started out being a program to track or identify criminals," he said. "Now we're talking about large swaths of the population -- workers, volunteers in youth programs. Eventually, it's going to be everybody."

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2008, 04:07:41 PM »
Only a "bit" Huh?
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Tecumseh

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2008, 06:06:43 PM »
Guess that is one more piece of civil rights gone down the drain in the pursuit of the war on terror...

Why would we need it?  The terrorists are not coming here are they?  I remember Bush saying we are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here.

LAK

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 915
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2008, 12:32:46 AM »
Quote
Kimberly Del Greco, the FBI's Biometric Services section chief, said adding to the database is "important to protect the borders to keep the terrorists out, protect our citizens, our neighbors, our children so they can have good jobs, and have a safe country to live in."
Alot in just one paragraph here. So ...

Quote
Kimberly Del Greco, the FBI's Biometric Services section chief, said ....
That means; it's here already. This section and database of this little empire army of public servants has been created and is up and running.

Quote
".. important to protect the borders to keep the terrorists out ..."
Really? How?

Quote
".. protect our citizens, our neighbors, our children ..."
Waffle. So Del Greco knows this is bs, and is simply doing her intended PR job.

Quote
" ... so they can have good jobs.."
More waffle. "Good jobs"Huh?

Quote
" ... and have a safe country to live in."
And Del Greco can make a statement like that with absolute impunity. No legal consequence when the "section" doesn't deliver.

------------------------------

http://searchronpaul.com
http://ussliberty.org/oldindex.html
http://www.gtr5.com
http://ssunitedstates.com

209

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 281
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2008, 12:59:21 AM »
Let's see...

They have my fingerprints.

They have descriptions and locations of my tattoos.

They have just about all of my physical describers.

They have my mugshots.

They have my DNA.

At this point, if they take a retinal scan, palm print, toe print, foot print, rectal scan, or anything else they come up with, I'm not too worried.  They already have enough identifiers.

Of course, I don't think I'll volunteer for the rectal scan.  laugh

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2008, 01:06:37 AM »
Let's see...

They have my fingerprints.

They have descriptions and locations of my tattoos.

They have just about all of my physical describers.

They have my mugshots.

They have my DNA.

At this point, if they take a retinal scan, palm print, toe print, foot print, rectal scan, or anything else they come up with, I'm not too worried.  They already have enough identifiers.

Of course, I don't think I'll volunteer for the rectal scan.  laugh

The IRS handles that department.....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Antibubba

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,836
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2008, 06:39:27 AM »
Quote
"It's the beginning of a great leap forward for the surveillance society where you can be tracked anywhere, any time and all your movements, and eventually all your activities will be tracked and noted and correlated," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Technology and Liberty Project.
 

Fixed it.
If life gives you melons, you may be dyslexic.

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2008, 06:43:51 AM »
ATF has my fingerprints, I had issues with having to give my fingerprints for an explosives license but I'm over it.

I guess if average Joe citizen doesn't require any services of these federal agencies, then the federal agencies don't need any of Joe citizen's information. I think anyone who is arrested should have their data collected. I'm still not certain things need to be collected on federal licenses.

-C

Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

Tecumseh

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2008, 08:33:25 AM »
ATF has my fingerprints, I had issues with having to give my fingerprints for an explosives license but I'm over it.

I guess if average Joe citizen doesn't require any services of these federal agencies, then the federal agencies don't need any of Joe citizen's information. I think anyone who is arrested should have their data collected. I'm still not certain things need to be collected on federal licenses.

-C


  I believe in some states a speeding ticket is counted as an arrest.  Would you be ok with them hauling you in because for a speeding ticket or a parking ticket?

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2008, 10:25:06 AM »
ATF has my fingerprints, I had issues with having to give my fingerprints for an explosives license but I'm over it.

I guess if average Joe citizen doesn't require any services of these federal agencies, then the federal agencies don't need any of Joe citizen's information. I think anyone who is arrested should have their data collected. I'm still not certain things need to be collected on federal licenses.

-C


  I believe in some states a speeding ticket is counted as an arrest.  Would you be ok with them hauling you in because for a speeding ticket or a parking ticket?

Ok Felony arrrest then

Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

Antibubba

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,836
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2008, 08:24:02 PM »
"Arrest" is not conviction, and should therefore not impinge upon my right to privacy.
If life gives you melons, you may be dyslexic.

Tecumseh

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2008, 08:41:56 PM »
ATF has my fingerprints, I had issues with having to give my fingerprints for an explosives license but I'm over it.

I guess if average Joe citizen doesn't require any services of these federal agencies, then the federal agencies don't need any of Joe citizen's information. I think anyone who is arrested should have their data collected. I'm still not certain things need to be collected on federal licenses.

-C


  I believe in some states a speeding ticket is counted as an arrest.  Would you be ok with them hauling you in because for a speeding ticket or a parking ticket?

Ok Felony arrrest then


  So misdemeanor arrests don't warrant this kind of treatment?

209

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 281
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2008, 11:23:00 PM »

The IRS handles that department.....


LOL- too true.  grin

Tecumseh

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2008, 01:41:21 PM »
Any updates? 

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2008, 04:47:41 PM »
Any updates? 

Yes....the FBI said that its file on you is incomplete....they need you to stand in your back yard naked so the satellites can scan you completely.....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Tecumseh

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2008, 07:37:45 AM »
Any updates? 

Yes....the FBI said that its file on you is incomplete....they need you to stand in your back yard naked so the satellites can scan you completely.....
  I live in an apartment building.  I guess I will just have to explain that to the microphone in my tv.  Or I could send them the video I made with that drunk girl...Wink

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,431
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2008, 09:32:56 AM »
Or I could send them the video I made with that drunk girl...Wink   


We all have dreams.  Tongue
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Tecumseh

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2008, 09:37:32 AM »
Or I could send them the video I made with that drunk girl...Wink   


We all have dreams.  Tongue
  Yeah, I dream of sending the government my home made movies. 

Waitone

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,133
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2008, 09:41:07 AM »
The key to making it work is a good database during the development phase.  I recommend legislation requiring all new databases be initially populated with datapoints from congress itself.  Retina scan DB being developed?  Buzz on over to congress and set up a work table in the rotunda.  Senator Hornswaggle Blowhard has a few minutes and he can contribute his Iris pattern to the work.  Face patterns?  Senator Blowhard can limp by and take a quickie pic for the good of the chilren.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

Finch

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 465
    • Fading Freedoms
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2008, 02:55:52 PM »
I guess Warrant less searches/wiretaps aren't enough to fight the "WAR ON TERRAH!!!"
Truth is treason in the empire of lies - Ron Paul

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2008, 04:03:02 PM »
Get a tattoo of "NOT SURE" on your wrist. You'll be all set.

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2008, 04:38:01 PM »
Any updates? 

Yes....the FBI said that its file on you is incomplete....they need you to stand in your back yard naked so the satellites can scan you completely.....
  I live in an apartment building.  I guess I will just have to explain that to the microphone in my tv.  Or I could send them the video I made with that drunk girl...Wink

The FBI said that the parking lot will be fine.  The electron telescope has enough shielding to handle your BOHICA scan......  cool
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Tecumseh

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: CNN: FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2008, 05:31:58 PM »
Any updates? 

Yes....the FBI said that its file on you is incomplete....they need you to stand in your back yard naked so the satellites can scan you completely.....
  I live in an apartment building.  I guess I will just have to explain that to the microphone in my tv.  Or I could send them the video I made with that drunk girl...Wink

The FBI said that the parking lot will be fine.  The electron telescope has enough shielding to handle your BOHICA scan......  cool
  Good.  I figured they got enough of a view when they looked trhough the hidden cameras in my shower.