Now the F/A-18 is having oxygen problems

[Angel Eyes]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/03/politics/f-18-pilots-oxygen-navy-boeing/index.html

"Since May 1, 2010, all models" of the F-18 "show steady, yearly increases in the number of physiological episodes," according to their testimony, which was first reported by Bloomberg ahead of last week's House Armed Services subcommittee hearing.

They also reported a growing number incidents involving pilots of Boeing's EA-18G Growler, an aircraft that specializes in jamming and disrupting various capabilities of enemy jets.

Seems that much of this can probably be traced to the age of the aircraft.  The Hornet has been around for a long time.

Why political?  Because the text in my browser tab reads ""Trump-supported fighter jet depriving pilots of oxygen."  So this is all Trump's fault.   

[Firethorn]

Seems that much of this can probably be traced to the age of the aircraft.  The Hornet has been around for a long time.

It's also important to realize that they've probably upgraded the life support a number of times, if only to keep parts available and reduce the number of systems they have to support.

[Ben]

I heard Leah Gabriel talking about this on Mornings With Maria this morning. She said that her instructor pilot died from equipment failure hypoxia on a ferry to Key West. Apparently this has been an issue for quite a while ( the Gabriel reference is 2001, so well before Trump) that pilots have been griping about, apparently to deaf ears.

I still remember the videos of hypoxia training from ASTC school. My partner and I both thought we were squared away and rocking paddy cake. Then we watched the video of us in the chamber and in actuality, our hands were flying everywhere and we were laughing hysterically. I would not want to lose control like that behind an F-18 stick.

[Regolith]

I heard Leah Gabriel talking about this on Mornings With Maria this morning. She said that her instructor pilot died from equipment failure hypoxia on a ferry to Key West. Apparently this has been an issue for quite a while ( the Gabriel reference is 2001, so well before Trump) that pilots have been griping about, apparently to deaf ears.

I still remember the videos of hypoxia training from ASTC school. My partner and I both thought we were squared away and rocking paddy cake. Then we watched the video of us in the chamber and in actuality, our hands were flying everywhere and we were laughing hysterically. I would not want to lose control like that behind an F-18 stick.

Destin from Smarter Every Day did a pretty good video on hypoxia.

He goes into one of those chambers with an astronaut, and they have him take his O2 mask off. After a minute or so, they start telling him straight up "if you don't put on your mask, you'll die", but he couldn't do it. His brain just couldn't process it.

[French G.]

I will patiently wait for environmental people I know to tell the real cause. What I do know is that ECS  on hornets or pretty much any aircraft in the Navy are nightmares. I have been on enough troubleshooting goosechases to know that. ECS is environmental control systems, heat, cooling, cabin pressure, and oxygen. I will tell you that the absolute oldest hornets do not have this problem, I worked on them, F/A-18A+ and we used LOX. Save for a few random B variants all other hornets and supers use OBOGS, or onboard oxygen generation system. Tied into the ECS bleed air system like every other thing in the ECS. Take apart entire belly of aircraft is usually step one. I'm sure this will get figured out, root cause is most likely all the good enviro techs squeezed out of service and fifteen years of flying the crap out of them. The rest is media hit piece.

[RoadKingLarry]

What "green" technology was recently mandated by the Obama empire?

[HankB]

In WWII, our pilots and aircrews had working oxygen supplies. We've lost that tech.

In the 1960s, we could put men on the moon, and bring them back. We've not only lost THAT tech, but we can't even put men in orbit any more.

Progress!

[Andiron]

In WWII, our pilots and aircrews had working oxygen supplies. We've lost that tech.

In the 1960s, we could put men on the moon, and bring them back. We've not only lost THAT tech, but we can't even put men in orbit any more.

Progress!

Not so much lost,  as we had something that worked,  and instead of improving that,  they tried some BS "all purpose" fix to reinvent the wheel(F35).  Bet a shiny new F18 would be death on wings.  

[dogmush]

It's also important to realize that they've probably upgraded the life support a number of times, if only to keep parts available and reduce the number of systems they have to support.

 

Do you even military Bro?

[Hawkmoon]

It's also important to realize that they've probably upgraded the life support a number of times, if only to keep parts available and reduce the number of systems they have to support.

Thereby violating the cardinal rule: "If it ain't broke -- don't fix it." (New and different =/= better)

[HankB]

Thereby violating the cardinal rule: "If it ain't broke -- don't fix it." (New and different =/= better)

Maybe they adopted my employer's IT department motto: "If your computer ain't broke . . . we'll fix (or update) it until it is."

[MechAg94]

Thereby violating the cardinal rule: "If it ain't broke -- don't fix it." (New and different =/= better)

Usually, "cheaper" is in there somewhere also. 

[wmenorr67]

Guess they are having problems with the T-45's also and pilots are refusing to fly them.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/04/navy-instructor-pilots-refusing-to-fly-over-safety-concerns-pences-son-affected.html

[MechAg94]

Six months ago, the Navy sent the T-45 and other jet squadrons Sorbent tubes to measure the air the pilots were breathing. After each flight, the tubes were sent to a lab in Maryland for analysis. After 1,500 flights worth of air samples, the results remain inconclusive.

They can't find someone with an on board analyzer they can fit in for temporary testing?  Seems to me they should be able to.  Basic meters for CO, CO2, and O2 are small and portable.  I have no idea what they have tried though.

Can bottled oxygen be put in as a backup?  Not sure if that is allowed or possible.

[MechAg94]

I am not quite sure I understand what is happening.  I was trying to look up a definition of histotoxic hypoxia that is mentioned in the article.  I get definitions that offer no understanding at all.  I thought this was related to lack of oxygen at altitude, but it sounds like contaminants are thought to be the problem.

[BobR]

From the T-45 article

In August, a flight instructor and his student were forced to eject near Kingsville, Texas, when they felt symptoms of hypoxia, crashing the multi-million dollar jet.  Both pilots ejected safely and were not seriously injured.

I am confused, eject because you felt hypoxic. I would bet the first step on the checklist is a rapid descent below 10K and then depressurize... not sure because I don't have a T45 manual but ejecting for an hypoxic episode seems a little severe. But once again, I wasn't there.

bob

eta: Just found out the T45 has an emergency O2 bottle (1800-2500psi) that will last 4-20 minutes. Makes ejecting even more perplexing to me. Wish I could find the accident report.

[RoadKingLarry]

If they were hypoxic they may not have been thinking clearly??