Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on November 21, 2006, 07:21:41 PM
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/10374909/detail.html
Quote
Elderly Woman Killed; 3 APD Officers Wounded
POSTED: 7:41 pm EST November 21, 2006
UPDATED: 10:41 pm EST November 21, 2006
ATLANTA -- Three Atlanta police officers were shot and wounded and an elderly woman killed at a house in northwest Atlanta Tuesday night.
The woman, who relatives say was 92-years-old, opened fire on the officers from the narcotics division at a house at 933 Neal Street, according to officials. Authorities say they received a tip of drug activity taking place at the home and officers were headed to the house with a search warrant.
Relatives identified the elderly woman as Katherine Johnston.
The woman's niece, Sarah Dozier, says that she bought her aunt a gun to protect herself and that her aunt had a permit for the gun. Relatives believe Johnston was frightened by the officers and opened fire.
"They kicked her door down talking about drugs, there's no drugs in that house. And they realize now, they've got the wrong house," Dozier said. "I'm mad as hell." Officials say they had the correct house and that the warrant they had was legal.
All three of the officers were taken to Grady Memorial Hospital. Officials there say the officers are alive, alert and talking. One officer was struck in the arm, one officer was struck in the shoulder and one officer was struck in the thigh. All of the officers are expected to be okay.
WSB-TV Channel 2 has reporters at the hospital and at the scene of the shooting; they will have live updates on Channel 2 Action News @ 11.
POSTED: 7:41 pm EST November 21, 2006
UPDATED: 10:41 pm EST November 21, 2006
ATLANTA -- Three Atlanta police officers were shot and wounded and an elderly woman killed at a house in northwest Atlanta Tuesday night.
The woman, who relatives say was 92-years-old, opened fire on the officers from the narcotics division at a house at 933 Neal Street, according to officials. Authorities say they received a tip of drug activity taking place at the home and officers were headed to the house with a search warrant.
Relatives identified the elderly woman as Katherine Johnston.
The woman's niece, Sarah Dozier, says that she bought her aunt a gun to protect herself and that her aunt had a permit for the gun. Relatives believe Johnston was frightened by the officers and opened fire.
"They kicked her door down talking about drugs, there's no drugs in that house. And they realize now, they've got the wrong house," Dozier said. "I'm mad as hell." Officials say they had the correct house and that the warrant they had was legal.
All three of the officers were taken to Grady Memorial Hospital. Officials there say the officers are alive, alert and talking. One officer was struck in the arm, one officer was struck in the shoulder and one officer was struck in the thigh. All of the officers are expected to be okay.
WSB-TV Channel 2 has reporters at the hospital and at the scene of the shooting; they will have live updates on Channel 2 Action News @ 11.
Post by: Sindawe on November 21, 2006, 08:27:08 PM
Another "Glorious Success" in the War on Drugs!
And people some cops wonder why they are so disliked....
Post by: Jamisjockey on November 22, 2006, 04:46:25 AM
Based on the "news reports" about this from myfoxatlanta.com, the cops messed up on this, and unfortunately an innocent woman was killed by these bozos.
Another "Glorious Success" in the War on Drugs!
And people some cops wonder why they are so disliked....
Another "Glorious Success" in the War on Drugs!
And people some cops wonder why they are so disliked....
To paraphrase Rage Against the Machine....
F@#! the Police!
I'm proud of the old bat, she winged three of them. In my opinion, these thugs are no different than any other home invaders. So they had a warrant based on a tip in thier hands? How about attempting to buy and verify? How about some GD survelliance? Bad police work and over zealous jack-booted-thuggery got an old woman killed and three police wounded....
Post by: Sergeant Bob on November 22, 2006, 05:25:26 AM
I'm sure the officers "followed department procedure" so all is well.
Someone needs to be jailed over this kind of crap!
Post by: Nightfall on November 22, 2006, 05:38:54 AM
Well done, ma'am.
Post by: cordex on November 22, 2006, 05:48:54 AM
Looks like these were plainclothes officers too.
What do we know?
Cops get a tip (we don't know that it was anonymous, Bob) and send officers to serve it, at least some apparently not uniformed.
Officers at some point forcibly open the door.
There is an exchange of fire killing Kathryn Johnson and wounding three of the plainclothes officers.
That's about it.
So far, this doesn't look very good for the police. Ms. Johnson may have been a hardened drug dealer who deserved what she got, but it is possible that instead she was an innocent person - older, so she possibly who didn't see or hear very well - who saw a group of home-invaders forcing their way into her domicile with weapons drawn talking about drugs. Seeing these intruders, she tried to stop them.
Can't say for certain one way or another, but like I said it doesn't look very good.
Quote
ATLANTA -- Three Atlanta police officers were shot and wounded and an elderly woman killed at a house in northwest Atlanta Tuesday night.
The woman, identified by relatives as 92-year old Kathryn Johnson, opened fire on the officers from the narcotics division at a house at 933 Neal Street, according to officials. Authorities say they received a tip of drug activity taking place at the home and officers were headed to the house with a search warrant.
The woman's niece, Sarah Dozier, says that she bought her aunt a gun to protect herself and that her aunt had a permit for the gun. Relatives believe Johnston was frightened by the officers and opened fire.
Her relatives say Johnson had lived in the house for about 17 years.
"They kicked her door down talking about drugs, there's no drugs in that house. And they realize now, they've got the wrong house," Dozier said. "I'm mad as hell." Officials say they had the correct house and that the warrant they had was legal.
Assistant Chief Alan Dreher says the officers had a legal warrant and "knocked and announced" before they forced open the door. He said they were justified in returning fire when they were fired upon.
Dozier said there were never any drugs at the house. She says her aunt must have panicked when the police forced their way into the home.
She says the officers "shot her down like a dog."
The plainclothes Atlanta Police officers were transported to Grady Memorial Hospital for treatment. One officer was struck in the arm, one officer was struck in the shoulder and one officer was struck in the thigh. All are expected to recover.
The woman, identified by relatives as 92-year old Kathryn Johnson, opened fire on the officers from the narcotics division at a house at 933 Neal Street, according to officials. Authorities say they received a tip of drug activity taking place at the home and officers were headed to the house with a search warrant.
The woman's niece, Sarah Dozier, says that she bought her aunt a gun to protect herself and that her aunt had a permit for the gun. Relatives believe Johnston was frightened by the officers and opened fire.
Her relatives say Johnson had lived in the house for about 17 years.
"They kicked her door down talking about drugs, there's no drugs in that house. And they realize now, they've got the wrong house," Dozier said. "I'm mad as hell." Officials say they had the correct house and that the warrant they had was legal.
Assistant Chief Alan Dreher says the officers had a legal warrant and "knocked and announced" before they forced open the door. He said they were justified in returning fire when they were fired upon.
Dozier said there were never any drugs at the house. She says her aunt must have panicked when the police forced their way into the home.
She says the officers "shot her down like a dog."
The plainclothes Atlanta Police officers were transported to Grady Memorial Hospital for treatment. One officer was struck in the arm, one officer was struck in the shoulder and one officer was struck in the thigh. All are expected to recover.
Post by: lupinus on November 22, 2006, 06:18:53 AM
I think its time we start holding police accountable for their screw ups as well. They got shot at? Boo friggin hoo. Don't bust down the wrong persons door in the first place and they wont assume they are under a home invasion and shoot. I get woken up at two i nthe morning by someone busting my door down are breaking a window and climbing through it I am supposed to take seconds that could cost me my life to decide if it is a police officer or not? BS
She made it to 92, she shouldn't have had to go out this way
Post by: Jamisjockey on November 22, 2006, 06:37:10 AM
you know the rest of us are held accountable when we make a major screw up, esspecialy one that gets someone killed.
I think its time we start holding police accountable for their screw ups as well. They got shot at? Boo friggin hoo. Don't bust down the wrong persons door in the first place and they wont assume they are under a home invasion and shoot. I get woken up at two i nthe morning by someone busting my door down are breaking a window and climbing through it I am supposed to take seconds that could cost me my life to decide if it is a police officer or not? BS
She made it to 92, she shouldn't have had to go out this way
I think its time we start holding police accountable for their screw ups as well. They got shot at? Boo friggin hoo. Don't bust down the wrong persons door in the first place and they wont assume they are under a home invasion and shoot. I get woken up at two i nthe morning by someone busting my door down are breaking a window and climbing through it I am supposed to take seconds that could cost me my life to decide if it is a police officer or not? BS
She made it to 92, she shouldn't have had to go out this way
Another case against no-knock warrants. And now criminals use it to thier advantage, kicking in doors yelling police, tying up the occupants and then robbing them....
Personally, I've got no reason to believe that the police would come into my home....therefore, anyone kicking in my door is viewed as a home invader and is going to recieve incoming rounds.
Post by: lupinus on November 22, 2006, 06:40:54 AM
or B) You are going to jail for killing a police officer is redicules
If you are innocent and have no reason for the police to be breaking in your door you should have much right to defend yourself from a police officer as a common criminal. A badge doesn't give you the right to wrongfully enter my home and put the life of my family and myself in danger.
Actually it does at current, but it shouldn't.
Post by: Jamisjockey on November 22, 2006, 06:43:54 AM
yes and now the problem is that A) there is going to be a swat team that will kill you
or B) You are going to jail for killing a police officer is redicules
If you are innocent and have no reason for the police to be breaking in your door you should have much right to defend yourself from a police officer as a common criminal. A badge doesn't give you the right to wrongfully enter my home and put the life of my family and myself in danger.
Actually it does at current, but it shouldn't.
or B) You are going to jail for killing a police officer is redicules
If you are innocent and have no reason for the police to be breaking in your door you should have much right to defend yourself from a police officer as a common criminal. A badge doesn't give you the right to wrongfully enter my home and put the life of my family and myself in danger.
Actually it does at current, but it shouldn't.
True and unfortunate, but I refuse to be a victim because the person yells "police". How do I know they really are police?
Post by: wingnutx on November 22, 2006, 06:44:28 AM
or B) You are going to jail for killing a police officer
There is at least one guy in prison for this right now.
The cops are lucky she used a shotgun. A rifle likely would have punch through their armor.
Post by: ebd10 on November 22, 2006, 06:47:29 AM
Post by: lupinus on November 22, 2006, 06:48:05 AM
Fell asleep and had his baby daughter in the house
Whats the most he had in that story? I think a tiny bit of a joint?
Yeah, great thing to have your life ruined over cause the morons picked the wrong dang house.
Post by: Volt on November 22, 2006, 06:55:52 AM
Wow think of that! She is 92 years old, caught off guard by heavly armed and trained men kicking in her door, and she puts three on three with a shotgun!
That's better than I or just about anyone here could hope to do.
Post by: lupinus on November 22, 2006, 06:58:39 AM
the officers who entered her home should be stripped of their badges, and put on trial for breaking and entering and at the very least mansluaghter if not murder.
I understand officers need to have powers other citizens don't get, and that sometimes mistakes happen.
But when officers outright break into the wrong house and kill someone they need to be held jsut as accountable as anyone else who breaks into a house and kills someone.
Post by: Antibubba on November 22, 2006, 07:21:05 AM
- Outrage in the news, on the street, and by politicians of every stripe
- City and police officials will be tight-lipped, and say incident is under investigation
- Sharpton or Jackson will show up; a vigil involving weeping and candles ensues
- Family begins civil proceedings
- Eager city official, hoping to further his political career, will tell reporters "the old lady was a hardened criminal" or such
- Eager beaver is fired
- ...
- ...
- ...
- Years later, the city will pay millions of dollars to the family (and tens of millions in legal fees) without ever admitting wrongdoing
Thereby setting up the conditions for it to happen all over again.
Bets anyone?
Post by: lupinus on November 22, 2006, 07:42:03 AM
Its going to be hard for them to explain this one away i nthe news. This one is already national. I don't recall the case mentioned before with the man and his baby ever making real national news
Post by: El Tejon on November 22, 2006, 07:57:40 AM
Post by: Guest on November 22, 2006, 09:19:20 AM
... Ms. Johnson may have been a hardened drug dealer who deserved what she got, ...
Deserved death for selling a product?
Post by: Dannyboy on November 22, 2006, 09:39:33 AM
Post by: cordex on November 22, 2006, 09:46:29 AM
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Deserved death for selling a product?
Some would say so.
Post by: Volt on November 22, 2006, 11:15:37 AM
One guy was hit in the chest, face and leg, another in the leg and another in the arm.
Dang good for anyone under suprise attack, outnumbered and taking fire. Plus 92 years old. That calls for respect.
Post by: molonlabe on November 22, 2006, 12:52:28 PM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on November 22, 2006, 12:55:35 PM
Post by: Tallpine on November 22, 2006, 01:17:54 PM
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And people some cops wonder why they are so disliked
Well, I would think they shouldn't have to wonder after this
Post by: One of Many on November 22, 2006, 03:51:28 PM
Post by: garyk/nm on November 22, 2006, 05:11:08 PM
On the national TV news, the police said that an undercover drug buy had been made at that house earlier in the afternoon. It was not clear whether the drug buy was made inside the house, or just at the address, but on the lawn or sidewalk.
Interesting point. One that can brought up at the MURDER trial for those yo-yos involved. NOT as an excuse to avoid prosecution!
Post by: MechAg94 on November 22, 2006, 06:29:26 PM
They also said they found some unidentified drugs. In the press conference video I saw, they refused to say what the nature of those drugs were. Probably prescription drugs from a 92 year old woman.
Basically, anything they didn't want to answer was "under investigation".
Hopefully, this will lead to some legal changes. I doubt it though.
Post by: HankB on November 23, 2006, 08:41:53 AM
But then it stated that plainclothes officers broke the door down, which prompted the shooting. They allegedly had a warrant.
If this was in fact the case, note that officers in plain clothes are, by definition, NOT readily identifiable as police. Persons, not readily identifiable as police, are, IMHO legitimate targets for any homeowner who's experiencing a break in.
Period.
Post by: Ben on November 24, 2006, 06:13:26 PM
I'm generally not thrilled when I see topics go into "cop bashing". At the same time, I am very much against "no-knock" warrants. I consider myself pretty conservative (actually I usually say I'm a "Republitarian"), and to me, part of that philosophy is the whole "private property rights, 'my home is my castle' " line of reasoning.
So here I am reading this thread, and agreeing with most of the posts regarding this poor woman. Then I go browse here, where I'm a lurker:
http://www.rightnation.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=112886
A "right wing, conservative" forum. Pretty much every post makes this woman out to be an evil drug dealer, and the one person who indirectly suggests she might have been defending herself in her own home is berated as a left wing liberal. Makes me feel pretty out of touch with conservatives. The direction of that thread is something I'd expect from Statists, not people who are supposed to believe in individual rights and small government.
Post by: Nightfall on November 24, 2006, 06:52:12 PM
Post by: Leatherneck on November 25, 2006, 03:55:11 AM
TC
Post by: Jamisjockey on November 25, 2006, 04:59:08 AM
Yep. Can't hardly tell a Liberal from a Conservative any more. The two-party system does not serve us well any more. I don't know what should replace it.
TC
TC
I do.
http://www.lp.org/
We actually have a multi party system thats been dominated by the two parties, and controlled by them at the higher levels.
PS, my long term ambitions have always been to run for public office.
Post by: Sindawe on November 25, 2006, 09:36:31 AM
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I do.
http://www.lp.org/
What? Are you proposing ONE party rule? Much as I concur with most of the Libertarian Party's platform, I won't go for having them rule alone.http://www.lp.org/
I think this nation (indeed the species as a whole) needs to implement a Bureau of Sabotage before we loose ALL control of our governments.
Post by: MechAg94 on November 25, 2006, 11:20:05 AM
Post by: MechAg94 on November 25, 2006, 11:29:21 AM
- Was the drug buy in front of the house or inside it?
- Who was the unidentified male? Connection to the lady?
- What were the unidentified drugs found? If it was pot or crack, I bet they would have said so.
- Why did plainclothes officers execute the warrant? Why was a no-knock authorized?
- Why didn't they raid the house soon after the buy instead of in the middle of the night? These raids in the wee hours of the morning really bother me.
- Why wasn't some survailence done to the point that they knew whether or not the "unidentified" male was in the house or not?
Maybe I am expecting too much.
For me personally: My main concern is that even if they yelled "POLICE" before breaking down my door, all I am likely hear is the door coming down when I wake up. I doubt I would have any idea who it was coming into my house.
Post by: HankB on November 25, 2006, 04:16:25 PM
. . . My main concern is that even if they yelled "POLICE" before breaking down my door, all I am likely hear is the door coming down when I wake up. . . .
Even if you heard someone yelling "POLICE" you have no idea whether or not they really ARE police or not if they're not wearing uniforms. There have been SEVERAL instances of fake police invading homes and robbing/raping the folks inside.Latest newspaper report says the cops were serving a "no knock" warrant for an unidentified "John Doe" at the address. The little old lady managed to get off six rounds from a revolver before being killed by the intruders. Police claim they found drugs in the house, but haven't
Post by: Dannyboy on November 26, 2006, 04:20:08 AM
Police claim they found drugs in the house, but haven't decided stated what type or where they were found.
Which is really odd. Normally, they would be waving that crap all over the place to show that they didn't screw up and were at the right place. Especially if they just killed the homeowner. The fact that they haven't announced anything about what they found tells me that they didn't find much of anything. Probably the same as they found in Cory Maye's house, a half smoked joint.
Post by: Otherguy Overby on November 26, 2006, 07:29:04 AM
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Probably the same as they found in Cory Maye's house, a half smoked joint.
No, they found smoking guns in both cases...
Post by: MechAg94 on November 26, 2006, 01:42:40 PM
All this stuff may have good explanations and this lady was the Godmother of the neighborhood, but the lack of information and the evasivness/vague answers of the PD about key facts just make me naturally suspicious.
Post by: Gun Runner on November 26, 2006, 02:02:37 PM
Post by: Eleven Mike on November 27, 2006, 05:12:54 AM
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A "right wing, conservative" forum. Pretty much every post makes this woman out to be an evil drug dealer, and the one person who indirectly suggests she might have been defending herself in her own home is berated as a left wing liberal. Makes me feel pretty out of touch with conservatives. The direction of that thread is something I'd expect from Statists, not people who are supposed to believe in individual rights and small government.
That's an exageration. I just scanned that thread, and they're having a fairly healthy discussion over there, with more diverse points of view than this one. FWIW, my ill-informed guess is that the cops were at fault here, but I won't make more of a judgement without more facts.
Post by: Ben on November 27, 2006, 05:36:27 AM
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That's an exageration.
They're having a fairly healthy discussion NOW. When I posted my comment it was much more one-sided.
Post by: L on November 27, 2006, 01:37:10 PM
Post by: MechAg94 on November 27, 2006, 03:15:25 PM
Post by: garyk/nm on November 27, 2006, 04:05:46 PM
Post by: Ben on November 27, 2006, 04:11:15 PM
Quote
There weren't that many one-sided posts before the discussion opened up.
Let's see, 19 posts before I posted here. There were 2 that either favored the woman or felt bad for her, 3 speculative posts, and 10 that sided with the police simply because they're the police, or suggested the woman was a drug dealer or in some other way got what was coming to her for shooting at the police when they broke down her door.
Post by: Dannyboy on November 27, 2006, 05:20:51 PM
Post by: LadySmith on November 27, 2006, 10:03:39 PM
Count me in the camp that admires her for going down fighting and deeply disturbed that she had to go down at all. What a friggin' world.
Post by: HiroProX on November 27, 2006, 10:45:45 PM
So much for Scalia's "professionalism."
The infamous quote "I am the only person in this room, that I know of, professional enough to carry a Glock .40" comes to mind.
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 28, 2006, 04:15:40 AM
Wow. The APD is screwed! Now the informant they used to justify the raid is saying he was told to lie about buying drugs at the old lady's house. Balko has the details at www.theagitator.com.
So, did the cops get him to lie, or is he lying now?
Post by: Dannyboy on November 28, 2006, 06:13:10 AM
Wow. The APD is screwed! Now the informant they used to justify the raid is saying he was told to lie about buying drugs at the old lady's house. Balko has the details at www.theagitator.com.
So, did the cops get him to lie, or is he lying now?
From Balko:
Attack the informant's credibility and you admit that you conducted a high-risk, forced-entry raid based entirely on a tip from an informant you now say is unreliable. You admit you did no corroborating investigation. You admit you didn't even send an officer to check to see if the informant was right about, for example, an external surveillance system. And all of this ineptitude led to the death of an innocent woman, not to mention to three officers getting wounded.
And that's if the guy's lying about the cover-up. If he's telling the truth? Now you're talking about a major-league *expletive deleted*it storm. If this guy's telling the truth, not only did the officers originally investigating this case lie, but the officers investigating after the shooting then lied to cover it up. That means you not only have corruption problems with your narcotics officers, but you have problems with your internal affairs unit, the cops who are charged with investigating the other officers.
In another update, it looks as though the judge's signature may have been forged the warrants.
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 28, 2006, 06:34:54 AM
Post by: Sindawe on November 28, 2006, 06:38:39 AM
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In another update, it looks as though the judge's signature may have been forged the warrants.
WTF!? Do you have a link for that?Quote
What was the ulterior motive for such antics?
Glory and promotion are the first ones that come to mind, unless the deceased had a sizable bank account that could be seized under the repugnant asset forfeiture laws.
Post by: Dannyboy on November 28, 2006, 07:05:08 AM
Here's a link to the warrant.
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/pdf/searchwarrant.pdf
Here's a link to the article about the informant.
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2006/11/27/1127metshoot_html.html
In a bit of good news, the CoP there has brought the FBI and GBI to investigate as well as suspending 7 narcotics officers