Thoughts on a street-legal small-mid displacement dual-sport motorcycle?

[MillCreek]

Many, many years ago, I had a 125 cc street-legal dual sport from Suzuki.  I cannot even remember what year it was, but was probably built back in the 80's, when you could buy numerous motorcycles under 500 cc in the USA.  The bike was just a blast to ride, virtually indestructible and was easy to maintain.  I gifted it to a relative who took it to college and used it for three years until it was stolen. 

I have been thinking about another off-the-shelf street-legal dual-sport as a fun bike, commuter, grocery getter and the like.  This would probably be a 70% street/30% logging road/trail machine.  I have been looking at the major manufacturers and see that Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki all have some bikes in the 200-250cc range and Suzuki has one model in the 400 cc range.  Nothing really after that until you get to the KLR 650 at 650 cc.   The KLR would probably be too big for what I am looking at, and it seems to be a two-person job to lift them upright on the trail after dumping them. 

Any thoughts or recommendations?  I have noticed that the new Yamaha XT250 and Honda CF230L are getting some good reviews. 

[Dannyboy]

KTM makes great dual-sport bikes.  Not sure if they have 250's or not but they do have a 450, I think, that is bad ass.

[DustinD]

I have had a Honda XR400 for six years now and have used it as a daily driver for most of those years. Most of the dual sport bikes I have seen are seriously neutered from a real dirt bike and your best bet would be to get a dual sport conversion kit if your state allows you to. Most of the newer bikes do not seem as bad as the older models when it comes to the performance disparity, but I would make sure you know how they compare before buying one.

If I was buying a new one now I would probably go for a Yamaha or Honda 450, but I have not really looked into it for a few years. KTM is also a good brand that makes nice dual sport bikes.

[tokugawa]

Millcreek, are you REALLY gonna use it on the trails? Or just to bop around on fire roads, maybe go up to Darrington on the Mountain loop highway, do some back roads around Hood Canal, go to the post office, etc?
  If you are seriously going to do some trail riding, a 250 is great. I would stay with a japanese bike unless you like to do maintainance. KTM's dual sports are dirt bikes with lights, they will blow the tires off the Japanese  dualsports. And will take a ton more work.
 
  For general street riding, with a high fun factor and a stone axe reliable simple design, the Suzuki DR650 is hard to beat. Mine gets 55 mpg, runs a smooth 65 on the freeway, is a ton of fun on back roads and dirt roads but for tough  single track trails it is a heavy pig (372 lbs with a full tank).  The seat is an ass burner after 75 miles, but Rich's up on Aurora Ave.  can take care of that for you. Although I have done 250 mi days-ouch! 
  One big factor also- the DR650 is factory setup to be lowered about 2", with some built in fork and shock adjustments. I plan on doing it, just because it is harder to swing a leg over than it used to be, especially with a tail bag on the bike.
  The kawasaki KLR 650 is a better street bike, comes stock with a rack, skid plate and small fairing, but is taller and heavier- about 427 lbs full up.
   Both these bikes have parts and accessories support a mile wide and deep- if you want more info go to Adventure rider.com 
   I think the 250's would be fine for just local running to the store and so forth, but  they will be really stressed to keep up on the freeway.
   Here are couple of listings for dr650's on your side of the water.
   http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/mcy/821247226.html
   http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/mcy/772521922.html

[Ryan in Maine]

I've been considering the same, so my thoughts are "probably a good idea" (got to get a trail map to be sure). I'm trying to figure out if a dual-sport would be better for me than a more pavement-oriented bike (I really like the Kawasaki Versys and the Suzuki SV650). We have a lot of trails here in Northern Maine, so I've got some math to do. It's hard to complain about the gas mileage on a dual-sport too. You're probably going to get at least 50mpg and likely something in the 70mpg (+) range.

I've been looking at Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha since I believe that's who I have dealership access to within a reasonable distance.

Anyway, here are my cliff notes on the latest models.

Honda CRF230L $4499
- 6 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 9.5" ground clearance
- 52.75" wheelbase
- 31.9" seat height
- 267 lbs curb weight
- 2.3 g fuel capacity

Honda XR650L $5949
- 5 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 13" ground clearance
- 57.3" wheelbase
- 37" seat height
- 346 lbs curb weight
- 2.8 g fuel capacity

Kawasaki KLX250S $4899
- 6 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 11.2" ground clearance
- 56.3" wheelbase
- 35" seat height
- 277.8 lbs dry weight
- 2 g fuel capacity

Kawasaki KLR650 $5349
- 5 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 8.3" ground clearance
- 58.3" wheelbase
- 35" seat height
- 386 lbs dry weight
- 6.1 g fuel capacity

Suzuki DR200SE $3949
- 5 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 10.2" ground clearance
- 55.3" wheelbase
- 31.9" seat height
- 278 lbs curb weight
- 3.4 g fuel capacity

Suzuki DRZ400S $5699
- 5 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 11.8" ground clearance
- 58.5" wheelbase
- 36.8" seat height
- 317 lbs curb weight
- 2.6 g fuel capacity

Suzuki DR650SE $5299
- 5 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 10.4" ground clearance
- 58.7" wheelbase
- 34.8" seat height
- 366 lbs curb weight
- 3.4 g fuel capacity

Yamaha TW200 $3899
- 5 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 10.4" ground clearance
- 52.2" wheelbase
- 31.1" seat height
- 279 lbs wet weight
- 1.8 g fuel capacity

Yamaha XT250 $4549
- 5 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 11.2" ground clearance
- 53.5" wheelbase
- 31.9" seat height
- wet weight N/A
- 2.6 g fuel capacity

Yamaha WR250R $5899
- 6 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 11.8" ground clearance
- 55.9" wheelbase
- 36.6" seat height
- 276 lbs dry weight
- 2 g fuel capacity

Yamaha WR250X $5999
- 6 speed trans
- 4 stroke
- 10.2" ground clearance
- 56.1" wheelbase
- 35.2" seat height
- 280 lbs dry weight
- 2 g fuel capacity

I really like the Honda XR650L and the Kawasaki KLR650. Haven't been able to find a new KLR650 though. I really trust the Honda XR650L the most out of the list. Honestly though, the most fun bike I tried (disclaimer: I have only messed with a few of them so far and I'm running out of time since leaves are already changing colors here) was a bike I'm not very familiar with but I know has a good following - the Yamaha TW200. It felt a little odd with the chunky tires/ass bruising seat, but it was pretty cool after a few minutes and handled trails well and pavement up to 55 mph alright (which is the fastest the speed limit really gets around here, no highway driving for me, 25-45 mph only in all likelihood). Not the smoothest ride ever, but it's got a good price tag and great gas mileage going for it. I think it has decent modification ability too.

I'll probably end up with something fancier (because I do unnecessary things like that), but that's actually my front-runner for now. A large part of the attraction is the fact this will be my first bike. After doing research I'm going to have a much better grasp on things when spring hits next year, and I'll be able to try out more bikes. Looking forward to that. 

P.S. I'm 5'8" and my weight moves between 155-170 lbs so I can get a lot out of one of the smaller bikes.

http://powersports.honda.com/motorcycles/
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Motorcycles.aspx
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/Motorcycles/Default.aspx
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/lifestylehome/home.aspx

[East Texas Clinger]

Back in the mid '80s I had first a pure dirt XR500. It was stone reliable and a heavy PIG on some trails.

I got rid of that and got a pure street VT500. It was a vibration king with an ass BRUISER seat.

Had I split the difference back then and gotten an XL500, I can almost assure you it would STILL be out in my garage!

The DP bikes have the most comfortable natural seating positions with feet directly under butt and a decent reach to the bars. This allows one to stand easily. It really is the ideal seating position for me!

As to which modern new bike.... I wouldn't know except for me the 600 class are better road machines and the 250s are better dirt machines.

[MillCreek]

After pondering it, I really am leaning more toward a small displacement bike that I can ride on the back roads to the trailhead, even though most of my riding will be on the street.  I already have my big maxi-scooter for my long freeway tours and work commuting.  I was also thinking about a big naked standard, but that couldn't do anything that the scooter doesn't already handle at 100 mph and 60 mpg, and the naked standard is not going to give me any trail capacity.  And with five bicycles already in the garage, I probably only have room for one more two-wheeled vehicle.  

The KLR650s look really nice, and they have quite a following on ADVRider.  The KTMs are probably overkill for my use.  I probably am not going to be doing a whole lot of super technical riding: I fractured my hip in 1997 with a mountain bike crash, so my days of big jumps on the rocks are somewhat behind me.  The weight of a bigger bike doesn't trouble me a whole lot: my scooter has a curb weight of just over 500 pounds.  I do read a lot of posts on ADVRider about the difficulty in getting a bigger bike upright on the trail after dumping it.  But some of the dual-sports have quite the seat height, and I am thinking as to if that is a problem.  I do like to be able to put down at least one foot without having to lean the bike way over.  I am 5'10" with a 32 inch "bicycling inseam" (32 inches from my pubic bone to the floor).   If anyone has any insight on seat height, I am all ears.  

It is a pity that there is pretty much only one off-the-shelf 400 cc bike: the Suzuki.  It seems like the 250cc bikes would just barely, if that, keep up on the freeway, whereas a 400 cc bike would have no problem.  There are lots of 400 and 450 cc dirt bikes, but I have no experience whatsoever in taking a dirt bike and installing a street kit on it.  Does anyone know if this passes licensing muster in Washington, and just what is involved for installing a street kit?  

PS: I saw some great posts on ADVRider where someone mounted a pair of Plano dry boxes as side panniers on a Yamaha XT225.  That sure looked practical.  I see that in this area, the XT225s with a few thousand miles are selling in the low to mid three thousands.

[tokugawa]

As far as I know, doing a dirt to street conversion is NOT legal in WA. If it does not have a street title when new, it will not be issued plates. That is why KTM, Gas Gas and Aprilia are selling dirt bikes with lights and turn signals. 
  I am 5 11 and the DR is as tall as I would want. I can get both toes on the ground at a stop- It will be lowered this winter when I get time to tear it apart.
 
 Do not trust factory weight specs- the 372 lbs DR  I quoted was measured with a full tank on  my scales, guys in AVR weighed the KLR with full tanks at 427- shake them around at a dealer and you will get an accurate reflection of the difference. Of course at 6 lbs per gallon, the extra fuel of the KLR accounts for an 18 lb difference right there.
 
  The motorcycle mags will give some info, the only one I trust to not sugarcoat is Motorcycle Consumer News, they take no ad money.  The Oct 2007 issue has a comparison of the BMW x650, the Kawasaki KLR650, the Honda XR650, and the Suzuki DR650. Kawi came first, mostly because of features-fairing, skid plate, rack, and superior street comfort. Suzuki was second, sportiest, lowest seat height. If I were going to cross the country or ride to the Grand Canyon, the KLR would be first on the list.

  April 2008 has a review of the Yamaha xt250, may 2008 has the Honda CRF230, and July 2008 the Kawasaki KLX250. These were mini tests of first impressions.  The difference on the trails will be huge from the 650's- 100 lbs of weight !