Author Topic: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours  (Read 6310 times)

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« on: September 12, 2007, 07:16:37 PM »
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1961.asp
Quote
Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
A St. George, Missouri police officer is caught on tape threatening to invent charges to arrest a motorist for parking after hours.

A motorist who refused to discuss his personal business with a St. George, Missouri police officer was threatened with arrest last Friday. Brett Darrow, 20, no stranger to unconventional encounters with police, caught a St. George Police Sergeant James Kuehnlein stating that he had the power to invent charges that would put Darrow behind bars. Update: Sergeant Kuehnlein was placed on unpaid leave Monday pending an investigation.

"Try and talk back... to me again," yelled Sergeant Kuehnlein. "I bet I could say you resisted arrest or something. You want to come up with something? I come up with nine things."

The incident began at around 2am. Darrow was to meet a friend who was working late and was going to pick him up. Darrow headed toward a 24-hour commuter parking lot in an unincorporated part of Saint Louis County in his 1997 Nissan Maxima. He put on his turn signal and entered the lot which, aside from Kuehnlein's cruiser, was essentially vacant. After stopping the car, the police officer approached and began questioning Darrow about what he was doing. When Darrow declined to discuss his personal business, the police sergeant exploded. Although the video clearly shows Darrow driving properly and using his turn signal, the police officer insisted that Darrow had broken the law.

"Oh, while you were coming towards me you were swerving back and forth within the roadway," Sergeant Kuehnlein said. "I might give you a ticket for that. You want me to come up with some more? When you turned in, you failed to use your turn signal, your right turn signal."

Without the video, Darrow tells TheNewspaper that he would have stood no chance disproving the officer's word in court. Twenty-eight percent of the St. George municipal budget comes from traffic citations. Darrow wonders how many of the tickets were legitimate.

"Looking into this guys eyes, he was crazy," Darrow said. "I was really scared he was going to assault me. I just wonder how many other people have been arrested on these charges."

After ordering Darrow against the car and searching him, Sergeant Kuehnlein released the motorist.

View video of incident below. Warning: Police officer uses graphic language.


Quote
Transcript of audio made by Brett Darrow:

1:07
Officer #1: How we doin? What's going on?
Brett: Nothing.
Officer #1: Why you parkin here?
Brett: Can't I park here? It's a commuter lot right?
Officer #1: Yeah, but we have problems after midnight time. People break into cars. You got any ID on you?
Brett: Yeah, I do.
Officer #1: Can I see it please?
Brett: Did I do something wrong?
Officer #1: Yeah you're a suspicious vehicle right now.
Brett: I'm what?
Officer #1: [Leans into the car and yells] You are a suspicious vehicle right now.
Brett: In a commuter parking lot?
Officer #1: Yeah you are cause we have car thieves in here. Yeah you're right.
Brett: Cause I can park right here.
Officer #1: You want me -- You wanna come out of the car? Come on out. Come on out.

1:32
[I exit the vehicle]
Officer #1: Let me see your ID.
[I give him my valid Missouri License]
Officer #1: Let me see your insurance card for the vehicle.
Brett: Did I commit a moving violation?
Officer #1: Yeah you did, when you were coming in here.
Brett: Really? What was that?
Officer #1: Yeah, you wanna try me? You wanna try me tonight? You think you've had a bad night? I will ruin your ****ing night.
[Officer starts to get close up to my face]
Officer #1 You want to try me?
[Officer is inches away from my face, screaming as I'm pinned between him and my vehicle]
Officer #1 Do you wanna try me young boy? Do you want to try me tonight young boy?
Brett: No I don't.
Officer #1: Do you want to go to jail for some ****ing reason I come up with?
Brett: No I don't.
Officer #1: Do you wanna see who knows the law better, me or you. My experience compared to your young ass. Huh? Don't ever get smart mouthed with a cop again. I show you what a cop does. Do you understand me?
Brett: Yes sir.
Officer #1: Try and talk back -- Talk back to me again. I bet I could say you resisted arrest or something. You want to come up with something? I come up with nine things. Do you wanna try something?
Brett: No I don't.
Officer #1: Wait here.

2:52
Officer #1 Oh, while you were coming towards me you were swerving back and forth within the roadway. Okay? I might give you a ticket for that. You want me to come up with some more? When you turned in, you failed to use your turn signal, your right turn signal [Turn signal was used, see video at 0:06]. You wanna try me some more? Huh? Come on smart ass. Gimmie an attitude a little bit more. I bet -- I guarantee I can tow this car by the time I'm done with you. You wanna try me now? Gimmie a little more lip. [officer gets back up in my face] Come on boy. Come on boy give me some more lip. You're done?
Brett: I don't want any problems officer.
Officer #1: You're about ready to get it. You already start your ****ing problems with your attitude. Did we have a bad night boy? Huh? Answer me or I'll lock you up for failure to imply with a police officer's commands.
Brett: Cause I'm not answering your questions about my personal business?
Officer #1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You want me to show you? You want me to show you? You want me to lock you up to show you I'm right and you're wrong?
Brett: No I don't officer.
Officer #1: You want me to show you the ****ing law.
Brett: No, I mean I know Sean who used to work here. [A new neighbor of mine that used to work in the St. George police department]
Officer #1: Sean who? You mean my buddy, my best friend?
Brett: Yeah. He's me neighbor.
Officer #1 Okay, he's my best friend. Oh good. Why don't you go call him and tell him you came in front of Kuehnlein and see what he says If you got lucky you'll walk away from me.
Brett: I really don't want any trouble officer.
Officer #1: What are you doin' with a camera hooked to your car seat?
Brett: I have lots of cameras in my car.
Officer #1: Why is that?
Brett: And they upload to secure sources
Officer #1: Okay. I don't really care about your secure sources. I've got one in my car. See that?
Brett: Okay.
Officer #1: It's a secure source.
Brett: Okay.
Officer #1: I really don't care about your camera system cause I'm about ready to tow your car. Then we can tear them all apart...
Brett: Oh well, it doesn't matter. The videos not even in here.
Officer #1: Okay, it doesn't matter, I really don't care about your video
Brett: I'm sure the news will like it.
Officer #1: I don't really care cause you're about ready to go to jail.
Brett: I don't want to go to jail officer.
Officer #1: I'm gonna show you you're about ready to.
Brett: You're right officer
Officer #1: Okay.
Brett: I'm sorry.
Officer #1: You think these security cameras -- I guarantee ya, mine and my boy mic is gonna tell a little different and your attitude.
Brett: I don't want any problems.
Officer #1: You started it. Why do you have an attitude? As a matter of fact, I was gonna come in here, see if you're okay. First of all we have people try to commit suicide in here. We have car thieves come in here. We have people break into cars here. I have enough probable cause to stop you. Okay?
Brett: Okay officer, I'm sorry. I don't want any problems.
Officer #1: What is your problem tonight?
Brett: I just had a bad night officer.
Officer #1: You know what? You don't take it out on me. You don't never take it out on a cop cause we will ruin your career and life and everything else you have coming before you. Okay?
Brett: Okay.
Officer #1: What is your problem tonight?
Brett: I had problems earlier, I just came in here to sit.
Officer #1: You know what, that's all you tell me. You don't give me no problem with -- what did I do wrong cause I guarantee I come up with nine things. If you know Sean, why don't you ask Sean about me. Okay?
Brett: What's your name?
Officer #1 Sergeant Kuehnlein.

5:31
Officer #1: Do me a favor. When you do turn in here next time, use your turn signal.
Brett: Okay.
Officer #1: Okay. And seriously if you are pissed off, you're impairing your driving. Okay? I don't know if you were talking on the phone or just not paying attention, you were honestly coming down the roadway not staying within your roadway. You were honestly going back and forth. I don't know what you were doing, but I go it all on tape. Okay?
Brett: Okay.
Officer #1: I don't know if you were playing with something else, or paying attention to something else, I don't know.
Brett: Alright.
Officer #1: You need to be more aware. And when people pull you over, my job ain't to be P-ed off. Okay? My job is to conduct my career and my job. Okay?
Brett: Okay.
Officer #1: I don't have to have a reason to pull you over. First of all you're a suspicious vehicle in the commuter lot that's pretty much vacant and the commuter lot hours is after dusk, after 12 o'clock. Okay? You understand what I'm getting at? I know the law a little bit... How old are you by the way? 18?
Brett: I'm 20.
Officer #1: Okay, I was close. Okay. I think I've been around, as a matter of fact, I've been a cop almost as long as you've been alive. Okay?
Officer #1: Do you understand what I'm getting at?
Brett: I really don't want any problems officer.
Officer #1: Do you understand what I'm getting at? I'm trying not be ignorant, but when you give me lip, I'm gonna give it right back to you ten times harder. Okay? You give me an attitude, I'm gonna give you attitude a lot harder. Okay?
Brett: Alright.
Officer #1: You understand what I'm getting at? I'm trying to honestly see what's wrong, why, with your attitude. You understand?
Brett: Yeah.
Officer #1: Okay. You seem... You ever been in trouble before?
Brett: Yes.
Officer #1: For what?
Brett: Assault.
Officer #1: To who?
Brett: An off-duty police officer.
Officer #1: A cop?
Brett: I was assaulted by a police officer and a grand jury dismissed all the charges and the City of St. Louis paid me not to sue.
Officer #1: Okay. You have a problem then. Is it, was it your attitude that night, probably? Or he just had...
Brett: No.
Officer #1: Or he just had...
Brett: No, it was an intoxicated off-duty police officer that attacked me.
Officer #1: Oh, it didn't happen while he was on-duty?
Brett: No, He was off-duty.
Officer #1: You need to honestly lose... Okay, where do you work at?
Brett: I own my own company.
Officer #1: What do you do?
Brett: I'm a painter. I'm a paint contractor and I go to school.
Officer #1: Okay. Let's say you're a painter. Okay. You were going to sit there a few minutes right?
Brett: Yeah.
Officer #1: We're gonna talk for a few seconds. Okay, then I'll let you go. If you don't have no warrants against you, I'm gonna run your name real quick. You don't have no warrants do you?
Brett: No.
Officer #1: Okay, lets say I come to your job or you come to my house, wherever you're painting and I start giving you attitude. What would you do? Would you get a little irritated about that? And probably not do a great job of painting or something? Am I right or wrong?
Brett: You're right officer.
Officer #1: No. Don't agree with me cause you want to agree with me now. Agree with me because, if I'm right, tell me if I'm wrong.
Brett: I don't want any trouble.
Officer #1: Here's my back-up you don't think I'm gonna do anything. We've got cameras and body mics.
Brett: Well I don't know. You said you were going to charge me with resisting arrest and whatever else.
Officer #1: Well yeah. I can come up with more stuff than you can.
Brett: I'm just standing here.
Officer #1: No, cause you kept flinging your hands. [My hands were held at my beltline the whole time]
Brett: My hands were down here.
Officer #1: At toward me. Nah, you were swinging up and down.

8:30
[Officer #2 walks up and #1 starts talking to him]
Officer #1: He comes by me, coming down the road going in and out of the roadway within, within the lane. Failure to use a right-turn signal.
Brett: Was I speeding too?
Officer #1: Speeding. Do you understand I don't have to pull you over for speeding. Okay, It's your driving.
Officer #2 He's got a camera in the car.
Officer #1: It's to a secret link. I told him about our cameras too and our body mics. But anyway, the first thing he does is give me attitude about why I'm pulling him over. First of all, he's in the commuter lot after dark. I told him a lot of people try to commit suicide. Uh, people steal cars. People break into cars. He tried giving me lip and uh, he tried telling me all this stuff.
Officer #2 Why does he have the camera?
Officer #1: Cause he was assault right, but an off-duty drunk city cop so he put cameras in his car. I don't understand it. Anyway, that's him. But, now he's just agreeing with me just for the fun of it cause he had a bad day so he thinks he's gonna tell me the law why I can't pull him over.

Officer #1: It's called... When you go home and you want to tell everybody, first thing you tell em, you were pulled over because you were a suspicious vehicle. In the State of Missouri, we have the right to stop anybody walking for a pat check, or stop a suspicious vehicle anytime. Okay? That was my probable cause. And this parking lot, as a matter of fact, what's this parking lot called? Officer #1: What did you just call it?
Brett: It's a parking lot.
Officer #1: What kind?
Brett: A commuter parking lot
Officer #1: Are you commuting somewhere? Are you commuting somewhere?
Brett: How would you know that?
Officer #1: Are you commuting somewhere?
Brett: How would you know that?
Officer #1: That's why I was coming to inquire about that, but you just told me you were going to sit here.
Brett: You don't know if I was going to wait here for somebody to come pick me up.
Officer #1: I asked you that, did I not.
Brett: I don't have to say anything. I have the 5th Amendment right.
Officer #1: Do you really?
Brett: Do you know what the 5th Amendment right is?
Officer #1 Do you know what impeding the flow of a police officers duties are?
Brett: What's that? Go ahead, tell me.
Officer #1: Whenever I ask you... If I'm conducting an investigat... This is called a field investigation, if you're impeding it, you're impeding it.
Brett: You're saying, I can't refuse to answer your questions?
Officer #1: They're not incriminating are they?
Brett: You don't know that.
Officer #1: Are they incriminating?
Brett: Yes they are.
Officer #1: They are?
Brett: They could be.
Officer #1: Then are you doing something illegal here?
Brett: No I'm not.
Officer #1: Then they are not incriminating.
Brett: Yes, they could be incriminating. I have the right to privacy.
Officer #1: What privacy? Not when you're out in public, you don't have the right to privacy.
Brett: Yes, I do have a right to not tell you where I'm going or what I'm doing.
Officer #1: Really?
Brett: It's the 4th Amendment right.
Officer #1: Really?
Brett: Yes it is. Violation of my rights...
Officer #1: I like this. You want me to tell you the law.
Brett: Go ahead and tell me the law.
Officer #1: If you fail to comply with my orders, my lawful orders, you have the right to go to jail. Failure to comply with a police officer.
Brett: Your lawful orders to answer your questions...
Officer #1: Yes, my field.
Brett: Personal questions?
Officer #1: What's personal questions? You're sitting here in a commuter parking lot at 2 o'clock in the morning, you understand.
Brett: Okay, that's fine.
Officer #1: You know what, I think I'm gonna bring you with me. Come on.
Brett: Officer please.
Officer #1: I think you're gonna come with me. Then you can try and sue me in grand jury and I bet you I win. Then I'll sue you.
Brett: Officer I really... I just had a bad night.
Officer #1: Well let's ruin your night. You want to show me attitude.
Brett: No, no I don't.
Officer #1: I want to show you the law. I want to show you the law. I'm gonna show you my law is right yours is wrong.
Brett: Officer, I'm sorry. Like I said, I'm not trying to start anything. I've had problems with everybody tonight and I didn't mean to give you attitude. It's just one of those nights.

11:46
Officer #1: [Officer #1 looks at Officer #2] He's getting sorry now.
I'm sure you've had the same nights.
Officer #1: I don't take it out of people.
Brett: I know, and I shouldn't either.

Officer #2- [speaking to officer #1] He's got a scanner in his car.
Brett: I've always got a scanner in my car.
Officer #1: And by the way, that is technically a burglary tool cause you're scanning us while you're driving around. You're trying to see if you're gonna be detected. [The scanner was off]
Officer #1: What do you do? Do you go look for trouble?
Officers #2- [speaking to officer #1 while looking through my back window at a small hidden camera] That is a camera.
Brett: I have multiple cameras all over the car.
Officer #1: You have issues man. Okay?
Brett: Alright, I'm sorry.
Officer #1: I think I want to take you to jail just to prove you wrong. Do you have any weapons or anything on you I need to know about?
Brett: No.
Officer #1: If you would, turn around and place your hands on the car real quick. I'm gonna pat you down.

[At this point the officer finds nothing and I am finally released.]




HankB

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2007, 03:49:40 AM »
If the officer isn't fired it will prove the corruption in the department runs deep. (IANAL, but the officer's stated willingness to falsify charges would seem to be a good basis for appeal of ALL the officer's prior arrests and ALL convictions resulting from his testimony.)
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mfree

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2007, 04:13:08 AM »
Hehehe. Officer 1 keeps digging. Officer 2 does the smart thing and clams up, because he probably knows what's happening isn't kosher.

BozemanMT

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2007, 04:49:40 AM »
good thing we don't live in a Police State.   undecided

Yeah, officer 2 just sits back and fails to "protect and serve"

nice
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gaston_45

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atomd

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2007, 05:15:18 AM »
I read that the tape recording of the incident from the police cruiser's camera somehow went "missing" and also that the officer is now on unpaid suspension. It's interesting how tapes from the police department's cameras just disappear so easily when they do something wrong on them. That guy needs to be fired and then investigated, charged if applicable.

El Tejon

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2007, 05:32:46 AM »
The bad videos often go missing.  That's why I always send (or walk it over at lunch) a subpoena to the department or to the store, bar, whatever.

Good thing that kid had a camera and that the cop saw it.  It saved himself a beating.

Next new car I think I'm going to get a camera system installed. 
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2007, 05:43:24 AM »
Here's the transcript of his other run in with the cops.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/15/1522.asp

Quote
00:40
Officer #1: How are you tonight sir?
Brett: Hi.
Officer #1: Can you put your window down for me.
(I roll the window ALL the way down.)
Officer #1: Do you have a driver's license and proof of insurance?
(I begin to get my information out of my wallet)
Officer #1: Where you headed tonight?
Brett: I don't wish to discuss my personal life with you officer.
Officer #1: Alright, come on up here.
(I start to move my car)
Officer #1: As a matter of fact, just stop your car right here and step out.
(I stop the car, roll up my windows, pull up the emergency brake, and shut the car off)
Officer #1: Leave your car runnin with the keys in it.
Brett: What's that?
Officer #1: Leave your car runnin with the keys in it.
Brett: I don't want it to roll away officer.
Officer#1: Turn the car on.
Brett: It's a manual officer.
Officer #1: Okay. That's fine, then leave it off. Just leave it off. You're right, that's dangerous.
(I step out, and lock the doors.)
(He then calls another officer over)
Officer #1: Give me your keys.
Brett: Why officer?
Officer #1: I need to move it out of the street.
Brett: Can I move it?
Officer #1: No.
(Officer #1 takes my keys)
Brett: Why are you moving my car?
Officer #1: Because I'm going to talk you--I'm going to interview you because you didn't want to interview. You didn't want to sit down and have a talk with me.
Brett: I do not want to talk about my personal life.
Officer #1: Okay.
(We walk to the side of the road)


1:48
(Officer #2 then unlocks my car and looks around inside of it. You can see his flash light moving around in the car.)
Officer #2: Hey uh, I can't drive a stick. (laughs about it) I can't drive a stick.
(Officer #3 enters my car and attempts to move it. He stalls it once. He then lets it roll back down the hill before giving it a lot of gas and ridding the clutch while trying to move it forward. He then exits the car 62 seconds after entering.)
(While the officers are trying to move my vehicle, this audio not heard)
Officer #1: Where are you headed tonight?
Brett: I don't want to talk about my personal life.
Officer #1: Have you had anything to drink tonight?
Brett: No.
Officer #1: Alright, I'll be right back
(Officer #1 then calls 2 other officers (Officers #4 & #5) to stand by me as he goes to a patrol car to check my license)


Brett: Why am I being detained officer? (directed toward Officer #4)
Officer #4: You better stop runnin your mouth or the other officer will find a reason to lock you up tonight.
(Audio can now be heard again)
3:22
Brett: You're saying you're going to make up a reason to arrest me?
Officer #4: No I didn't. I said we would find a reason.
Brett: Okay. I just want to let you know all of this is being recorded.
Officer #4: That's good, we're recording it too. Do what he tells you to do--
Brett: I don't have a right to talk right here in a normal voice?
Officer #4: Yes you do.
Brett: You're saying I'm going to be arrested.
Officer #4: I'm just saying...
Brett: You just said youre going to find a reason to lock me up.
Officer #4: I said do what he telld you to do.
Brett: You said if I keep runnin my mouth, I will be locked up.
Officer #4: I said he'll find a reason.
Why are you going to find a reason to lock me up when I'm only asking why I'm being detained in a normal voice?
Officer #4: Do what he tells you to do.
Brett: Am I being detained?
Officer #4: Yes you are!
Brett: May I leave?
Officer #4: No, you may not.
Brett: Why am I being detained?
Officer #4: Because you don't have a driver's license.
Brett: I do have a driver's license. I gave it to the other officer.
Officer #4: When the other officer comes back--When he comes back--When he comes back you can talk to him about it.
Brett: Why are you saying I don't have my license?
Officer #4: Nineteen years old and you know everything.
Brett: Yes sir.


4:38
Brett: I'm being detained because I didn't tell the officer where I was going?
Officer #4: I wasn't here, you can talk to him when he comes back.


4:55
Brett: What was your name.
(Officer #4 ignored me)
Brett: Officer how do you spell your last name?
Officer #4: It's right there.
(points to chest, but his name is covered by the traffic safety vest. He then moves it so I can see.)
Officer #4: Hallquisd.
Brett: H-A-L-L-Q-U-I-S-D?
Officer #4: Yep.


5:09
(I then turn toward the other officer standing by me. Officer #5)
Brett: And what was your name officer?
Officer #5: Schmit.
(Officer #5 then talks to Officer #4 about stopping someone that had his last name)


8:38
Brett: Are you stopping everybody and getting them out of the car?
Officer #4: You can talk to the other officer (Officer #1) when he comes back.


10:10
(Officer #1 comes back and hands me my license and insurance card)
Officer #1: Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your time.
Brett: Why exactly was I detained and why did you get me out of the car?
Officer #1: You didn't want to answer my questions.(unsure of the rest of his comment)
Brett: Where does me having to go have anything to do with a DWI checkpoint. I don't have the right--
Officer #1: I was trying to have a conversation.
Brett: I didn't want to have a conversation. You stopped me officer in the middle of the road.
Officer #1: I was trying to have a conversation with you (unsure of the rest of his comment)
Brett: Do you stop everybody and get everybody out of the car? Or you did that just to me?
Officer #1: (unsure of audio)
Brett: Is St. Louis County Police going to pay for a new clutch, after he just killed it here and burnt up my clutch.
Officer #1: Would you like to talk to a supervisor?
Brett: Yes I would.
(Officer #1 goes across the street to get the supervisor.


12:43
(Supervisor comes over)
Supervisor: How you doin?
Brett: Hi.
Supervisor: I'm sergeant (unsure of his name)
Brett: I'm Brett Darrow
Supervisor: Brent?
Brett: Brett.
Supervisor: What's the problem tonight?
Brett: I have a problem because I was stopped here and uhh I offered to move my vehicle. The officer said I could not move my vehicle to park it. He told me to leave my keys in the car. I got out. Locked the door. He took my keys. Uhh. And they attempted to move my car here. They stalled it a couple of times. Burnt up the clutch. I mean it's all on tape and video. Now I'm going to have problems with my clutch. Who's going to pay for that?
Supervisor: How do you know they messed up the clutch?
Brett: I saw it right here. I saw smoke coming off as he tired to take off. It's a pretty easy way I guess for you guys to get inside a vehicle on a DWI checkpoint and that's where I have a problem.
Supervisor: Well, DWI checkpoints are authorized.
Brett: I understand they are authorized, but drug checkpoints aren't and you know when I see a K9 unit over here--
Supervisor: That's not the point.
Brett: Well why would there be a K9 unit?
Supervisor: The dog is part of the police department.
Brett: That just happens to be at a checkpoint. I know, I know you get a lot of drug busts off DWI checkpoints.
Supervisor: Actually the dog comes out very rarely. He's not walking by every car.
Brett: Not tonight he's not?
Supervisor: I'm at most of these checkpoints--
Brett: Okay.
Supervisor: And you can't walk the dog by every car. He just physically can't do it.
Brett: Okay
Supervisor: As far as your clutch--I have no idea what kind of damage was caused.
Brett: It's obvious it caused some damage. I mean you could see smoke and he killed my car and I don't know what other problems I'm going to have from that and if I do have problems, I'm going to be coming to the St. Louis County Police and I just want to let you know that tomorrow--this next week--
Supervisor: Do the officers have your name?
Brett: Uhh, I don't know.
Supervisor: Did they give you your ID back?
Brett: They gave me my ID.
Supervisor: Let me copy done your information. The issue obviously is, how do I know you didn't have clutch problems before because you're not driving a newer car?
Brett: That's correct.
Supervisor: What year is it?
Brett: It's a 1997.
Supervisor: So it's an older car?
Brett: Yes.
Supervisor: And you didn't have issues with the clutch before?
Brett: No, probably because I've had it replaced recently.
Supervisor: Well if that is an issue that actually does happen, you'll have to file a complaint with our insurance department.
Brett: Okay
Supervisor: The officers do have a right to..(unsure of audio)
Brett: I understand that, but I don't think they have a right to drive my vehicle.
Supervisor: Well we can't leave it in traffic.
Brett: Well I offered to pull it over here and the officer declined.
Supervisor: When were conducting an investigation. We can't say, oh you can drive your car and then that person takes off and runs over someone, we'd have a problem.
Brett: We'll I'd expect them to pull me off the road originally and not stop me in the middle of traffic.
Supervisor: Here ya go.
(Hands me my license)
Brett: Okay.
Supervisor: Anything else I can do for you?
Brett: No, I mean I just don't understand why I had to get out of the car because I didn't want to tell the officer where I was going. I think that is my own personal business and that has nothing to do with this.
Supervisor: And the officer said because your not telling him where--
Brett: Exactly, that is exactly why he asked me to step out of the car. Because he asked me where I was going and I told him officer I don't wish to speak with you about where I'm going tonight and he said get out of the car.
Supervisor: Okay, I'm sure there was something else besides that.
Brett: That's exactly it and you can bring him over here right now and actually I would like if you would so we can talk about this.
Supervisor: We're not going to do this on the side of the road.
Brett: Okay, and what was your name?
Supervisor: (Unsure of audio)
Brett: And how do you spell it?
Supervisor: (Unsure of audio)
Brett: May I leave?
Supervisor: Certainly, the officer said you could leave before.

(I get in the car, turn the video toward the officers and then behind me at the supervisor. I then drive off.)

SteveS

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2007, 05:45:44 AM »

Good thing that kid had a camera and that the cop saw it.  It saved himself a beating.
 

The kid (actually a 20 year old adult) is a mod over a Copwatch.  My guess is that he was looking for just this type of confrontation.  This certainly doesn't excuse the cop's behavior.
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2007, 05:49:20 AM »
Looking for it or not, he committed no crime, and he obviously uncovered a cop with serious issues.  Someone has to watch the watchers, you know.

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2007, 05:59:44 AM »
Quote

The kid (actually a 20 year old adult) is a mod over a Copwatch.  My guess is that he was looking for just this type of confrontation.  This certainly doesn't excuse the cop's behavior.

I didn't see where he was impolite or rude. Did you?

All I see, from the transcripts alone, are rude cops. Overstepping their authority. And that, my friends, has to be curbed.






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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2007, 06:00:59 AM »
Assume the driver was trolling for rotten pork...

From the video, he did nothing illegal whatsoever.  This is less of an entrapment than some LEO standing on the street corner trying to sell some dope or leg.
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SteveS

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2007, 09:08:19 AM »
Assume the driver was trolling for rotten pork...

From the video, he did nothing illegal whatsoever.  This is less of an entrapment than some LEO standing on the street corner trying to sell some dope or leg.

There was another news report that had some additional information.  He pulled into the lot at 2:00 a.m., flashed his lights, and was talking to his friend on a two-way radio.  Obviously, there is nothing illegal about this, but this in an area that had experiences a lot of break-ins, so I can see how it looked suspicious.  That being said, there is NO justification for what the cop did. 

It is good that he will hopefully be fired, but there is just something unsavory about the entire incident.  In some odd way, it reminds me of the Rosie O and Donald Trump feud.  I can't stand Rosie, but Donald is such a prick, too.
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ilbob

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2007, 09:11:10 AM »
how is flashing your lights and talking on a radio suspicious? even at 2 am?

have we gotten to the point where any behavior that is even remotely unusual is subject to police intervention?
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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2007, 11:11:17 AM »
Even if we accept the premise that there was reasonable suspicion to stop the 20 year old kid, that does not excuse the Intimidation, Obstruction of Justice, Perjury, Assault, Criminal Confinement and Sexual Threats of the police officer.

Those are all felonies.  He should be fired and then prosecuted.  I hope this video gets wide play across the Internet as potential jurors see what can happen on car stops.
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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2007, 11:54:57 AM »
I hope this video gets wide play across the Internet as potential jurors see what can happen on car stops.

People like to think it can't happen to them. The authorities always try to blame the victim in these cases by claiming the victim was somehow suspicious, or doing something nefarious, but just barely legal. It is a lot easier to just ignore these kind of things until they hit close to home than to take any positive action to put a stop to them.

There is also the problem that many claims of police misconduct come from less than savory citizens, and often are completely unsubstantiated. So it is not all that hard for the authorities to lump in legitimate complaints with the less legit ones.

I do not know what the answer is for dealing with police misconduct. It is a very hard thing to balance civilian control over police with giving them enough leeway to actually do their job. And often what some people agree is acceptable, is not considered acceptable by others.

Shining a bright light on police conduct and misconduct is probably the answer in the long run. It is a lot harder to hide in the shadows when there are no shadows to hide in.

But in the end, it is a political problem that needs to be dealt with by the political system. The people you should be blaming are the politicians that allow it to happen and then act like they can't do anything about it.

Of course in this case, it seems like the politicians are worse than the cops.
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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2007, 01:45:20 PM »
Quote
Officer #1: You know what? You don't take it out on me. You don't never take it out on a cop cause we will ruin your career and life and everything else you have coming before you. Okay?

Sadly true. Tell me again why courts automatically presume cops are telling the truth unless you happen to have your own video?

I can only wonder how the cop apologists would spin this dick's crimes as "just trying to make it home to his kids."
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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2007, 04:07:24 PM »
Even if he did bait the cops, they are supposed to be in control. Instead, Brett was in control and the cops reacted to him.  Poorly trained, poorly supervised, likely to wind up floating some day.

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2007, 04:21:27 PM »


Shining a bright light on police conduct and misconduct is probably the answer in the long run. It is a lot harder to hide in the shadows when there are no shadows to hide in.

Well, it'd help if police misconduct was reviewed by a non-police (Civillian) agency.  That'd help put an end to the "blue wall of silence" real or imagined.
Those members would need to be elected, empowered to issue subpoenas, and be empowered to terminate officers.

Also, it'd help if using citations as revenue was made illegal. i.e money goes to teh state, or a lottery is held, locality A's money goes to locality B, etc.  Also banning civil forfieture for crimes, unless someone was found guilty and their appeals exhausted.


Also, police records should be public in such a way that it wouldnt harm ongoing investigations.

How's that for a start?  police laugh
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SteveS

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2007, 04:31:40 PM »
how is flashing your lights and talking on a radio suspicious? even at 2 am?

have we gotten to the point where any behavior that is even remotely unusual is subject to police intervention?

Seems odd to me.  I think it warrants a few questions and maybe some observation.  It certainly didn't warrant what happened. 
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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2007, 05:28:20 PM »
And this is exactly why they've earned the title "pigs".

Answer this: how is police investigating themselves not a conflict of interest?

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2007, 10:23:09 PM »
And this is exactly why they've earned the title "pigs".

Answer this: how is police investigating themselves not a conflict of interest?

I wouldn't go that far.
Its' the minority (I truely hope) that spoils it for the majority.

I just feel that the minority should be severely punished; as that type of job should have no room for that type of behavior at all.
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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2007, 03:25:56 AM »
Well, I summarily dismiss that claim, and here's why: have you ever seen any department root out that "minority", or do you see them circling the wagons?

In fact, anybody show me one example of any member of this "minority" being rooted out, exposed, and brought down by his own department, not in spite of it.

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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2007, 03:53:02 AM »
The kid (actually a 20 year old adult) is a mod over a Copwatch.  My guess is that he was looking for just this type of confrontation.  This certainly doesn't excuse the cop's behavior.
Cops set up "stings" all the time . . . like having a policewoman stand on a street corner decked out like a hooker, with a squad car or two around the corner ready to zoom in and arrest anyone who propositions her. Nobody is forced to deal with the presumed hooker, and there's nothing illegal about talking to her . . . but if a guy crosses the line and offers her money for sex, he's in trouble.

Same situation here . . . the cop took it upon himself to contact the kid - if he'd merely checked him out, perhaps run the license and plates, and kept it businesslike, there would have been no story. BUT . . . he took it upon himself to threaten, intimidate, allude to making up phony charges, etc. He crossed the line - in a big, BIG way.

So - hopefully - he's in trouble of a very DEEP kind that won't be swept under a rug, with reinstatement in due course.
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Re: Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2007, 04:55:36 AM »
Well, it'd help if police misconduct was reviewed by a non-police (Civillian) agency.  That'd help put an end to the "blue wall of silence" real or imagined.

"Checks and balances" is a nice idea, but we've seen that it doesn't work: the parties that are supposed to "balance" realize that they both win if they collude. Thus we have collusion among the three branches of the US government--much of it conducted openly under the auspices of the political parties. "I won't check your abuses of power, if you don't check mine."

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